21st Century Drip Using 320 GPH Pump

[PetFlora]

IMHO, this method needs its' own subheading

Parts on order from Cheap Hydroponics (Halos not on his site yet)

Here's a video to hold you over. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9e5fSM_SNkU

My twist will be using a more powerful (~ 320 GPH) pump to convert drip to a spray (similar to low pressure spray heads). The resultant spray will splash over the top layer of ornamental rock, assuring greater surface coverage = better root coverage = better growth

One key is that the tripod legs allow to raise the ring ~ 6" above the top layer, which in my set up is ornamental rock, which will assist in cascading nutes to a much wider area.

Haven't made up my mind whether to run 2 separate 2 bucket systems; for sure one under the HOT5 clones, and likely one in the LED tent.

**2 ring system may not need 320 gph pump!



Probably won't have the rings, tubing, connectors for 7-10 days.

Stay tuned

 

[PetFlora]

It occurs to me that the ring can also be used to tie down branches.

Here's an early DIY attempt to make a spray ring. The inability to accurately deliver the nutes into the top of the AP was a problem. I 'solved' it by increasing the amount of time during the feed cycles. Clearly th Halo Rings completely solve it, plus the added benefits of the tripod legs to raise the ring height AND to tie down/train young branches

 

[PetFlora]

I figured I would post a pic of the plant that that I harvested this morning. It was vegged and flowered under ~ 100w leds 4.29 ozs bitches ... in a simple SHALLOW bubbler using 3/4 of a 45 LPM pump.

The clones will be moved to 3g buckets (2xs the depth of nutes- could this affect root mass?), then positioned in a 6" net pot lid. Anchoring the plant's roots into the medium Lava rock is important to keep the plant upright as it fattens up during flower. Each will be capped with ~ 1" of ornamental rock (Dollar store) to keep light out. I have it so I will use it, but there are easier ways, like appropriately sized neoprene pucks

I will probably grow 2 clones in the led tent. For lighting I will use 2 @ 3 socket vanity fixtures + splitters and extenders as needed.

I will start out with 6 disparate LED bulbs (7.5- 22watt), and will probably be adding 9.5w CREE WWs in pairs. No plans to add deep and/or far red. Should be an interesting comparison

Close Up of top. Now trimmed and hanging in the cure closet with fan on ~ 16 hours per day.

View attachment 2649400

 

[PetFlora]

OK, I needed to move the plants of out the make shift veg tote and into the LED tent. 3G pails purchased from Dollar store. The pour spout works out great to put air stone tubing- 2 stones per pail. Can completely lock out light with tin foil...

Going with 22w Utilitech WW (RP)+ 12w EcoSmart NW + 17w Philips WW (RP). The Philips appears to have >10% more reds than the Utilitech, but no big deal.

Nutes at 520/5.9pH

HOT5 clones doing quite well, spraying ~ 2 hours now.

Added a pic of Phoenix drying. Still have a few branches to harvest: leaving them in the tent for now, to give seeds another ~ week to mature

 

[hellraizer30]

Does your system run to waste or drain to waste?

 

[PetFlora]

Either or both ways. The bulkhead drain fitting on the bottom of the tray accepts a ~3/8 hard tubing. I place a 90* on the end then a parallel length of tubing: I can manually swivel/position the tubing/down spout toward the rez or to the drain jug (plastic coffee container). Due to small amount of nute per feed cycle during each cycle, I only need to empty it back to rez once a day.

Deeper Answer: I have found that when the plant is in veg the runoff remains fairly stable. However, it is important to check 'waste' pH/ppm. Mostly I find ppm is higher due to water evap/consumption.

I mix ~ 4G, my rez holds 2G, the other 2G I keep next to the active rez, and replenish as needed. In early veg, I use ~ 2G per week for 4 plants. The amount depends on how big the root mass gets. I find with my system roots do not become humongous balls of twisted overcooked spaghetti. Instead they look more like cotton candy- highly efficient nute eaters.

My Halo Ring order was shipped. Should be here Thursday-Friday. Tell your friends to Bookmark

 

[PetFlora]

4/5 clones doing just fine. The monster clone, not so much. One of the clones in the led tent already has top bud cluster developing. This plant is under the 17w Philips WW RP: it looks ~20% more Red than the 22w Utilitech WW, which is above the clone that is not yet showing any fruiting signs.

Hydro Halo Drip Rings + parts are here. Happily, even the 6" has 3 rows of drip holes. The 1/2" tubing CheapHydro sent is too flexible for anything but laying on a flat surface, so a trip to Lowes/HD is in order.

Anybody know about this; UNO VHO T5 Lighting System? http://www.ncwgs.com/product_info.php?cPath=43&products_id=1637


UNO VHO T5 Lighting System

XTREME HIGH OUTPUT and HIGHER PERFORMANCE have been forged together to give birth to The UNO Horticulture VHO T5 System ! The UNO VHO T5 Fixture produces color and light much closer to that of regular daylight than any competition resulting in tighter inter nodal spacing, thicker stem-walls heartier foil- age, and natural increases in extracts. All of these come together to create a much healthier plant while enhancing the natural characteristics of each specific plant. How do we do it?

The UNO Horticulture V.H.O. and X.H.O. Tri-phosphor Himalaya™ bulbs are designed for optimum-- lumen performance with the ballast. The V.H.O. or X.H.O. lamps coupled with ballasts put out 60% more lighter than our Bad Boy fixtures with NO additional power consumption, ( less than 1 amp. per lamp) ! The real trick to the unit is it will give up to 60% more lumens at 6" and 1' away from the plants. The VHO drives lumens deeper into the foliage for better light coverage and plant vigor.

 

[PetFlora]

Couple pics to update, as well as rough Drip System assembly using soft tubing.

LED Tent

Where I was hand watering every 2-3 hours roots have grown down sufficiently to drink from the moist lava rock at the bottom of the net pot lids. These were the 2 clones that were light blocked by the 2 which are in the HOT5 tent. They are coming along nicely, and should start throwing 3+ blade leafs soon



HOT5

In spite of my crude low pressure misting these 2 clones have taken off

In order to use the Drip Rings I cannot use the small Air Pots, which are narrower. Anyway, they are redundant now that I am using the netpot lid (why didn't I do this before? ), which has a 6" net pot built in: even though the 6" drip rings have 3 rows of holes, neither of my pumps provide sufficient pressure to get more than a straight down trickle.

Had to clean some more lava rock before I can transfer the clones into the net pot lid. I only had 2 @ 90* elbows. The plan was one on the riser the other at the last rip ring, but had to use both to make a loop to compensate for the high walls of my red tote. No problem as I had an extra o/o valve, so I used it at the end in the off position. After taking the pic, I noticed how the long run of tubing + 3 o/o valves was causing the soft tubing to sag, so I made a riser with my 1" pvc and ran the tubing through a T. Job done for now.

So today's outing includes looking for a bigger pump.

Still haven't made up my mind whether to take one of the clones from the led tent and run 3 drip ring pots. Clearly, the number of pots employed is strain dependent, and the 2 in there now, might just be bushier than their mother

 

[PetFlora]

Bigger pump on hold.

Upon running a test cycle, I noticed several critical issues:

1. Air Pots v Net Pots The clones were growing nicely in 1 liter Air Pots. I transferred the whole AP directly into the 6” net pot lid, but this left a > 1/2” air gap all around. It is here that the drip rings were aiming, essentially bypassing the roots inside air pots.

I removed each clone from the APs and transplanted into 4" netpots (to carefully hold the developed roots). These I placed into the 6” net pot lids. Good thing I jumped right on this as the confined roots were extremely dry. I was surprised (and thankful) that the plants had not begun to wilt.

From now on I will start seedlings/clones in 4" net pots to affect zero trauma when transplanting.

2. REZ Size My 2g rez was draining down so fast that there wasn’t enough liquid after 20 seconds of the feeding. I cut the on time as low as this timer allows (~20 seconds), but clearly, I need a bigger rez or a shorter on cycle time- the rez is cheaper). I had a 1.5xs larger bucket handy, so dumped the drained nutes into it, and filled it up with fresh nutes- ~ 560ppm

Doubling the volume of nutes gives me a pretty decent spray. So the 310 gph pump might be just fine

3. Drain Bucket My drain bucket was too small. I have a 24 can flat cooler, but because it is low, I have to hand dump the waste back into the rez. To automate I will need to raise the height of the grow tote so the bottom of drain is at ~ the same height as the top of the rez. If I do that I will essentially be raising the whole set up > 1ft. A 4 ft plant pushes my light fixture are as high as I can raise it. So, to automate, I first have to rebuild the light fixture hanging frame. Not today.

 

[PetFlora]

Early observations: The 3 rows of holes in the 6” Halos are poorly located. The drip, or spray, only reaches the outer edge of the 6”. We actually want at least one row aiming closer to the middle/center, the middle row, ~ 3” from center, and the outside row, aiming down. Wider rows would properly water the main tap and lateral roots, as well as those at 6”.

They should offer a 4”, which would come close to solving the problem

The tripod legs could be ~ 3-4” longer. This at least can be solved fairly easily. Longer lifts ‘might’ also help to wet a wider area

 

[PetFlora]

As I think more on what I consider to be poorly placed holes in an otherwise awesome design, the cause o the misplaced drip holes could be as simple as whomever was tasked with making the original die (probably straight bar) simply curved the die inside out. Had the die been cured to the inside, then the holes would be in a pretty good position. I have tried to contact them, but cannot find their website. Anybody?

I have to hand feed the inside 4" every ~2 hours, or risk those roots (laterals + roothairs) drying out and dieing. IMHO, that's a lot of lost potential, especially in early veg. Hand feeding and misplaced drip holes aside, I am stoked. Going to a see a friend Sunday who owns a dental lab. We will see whether he has a drill bit thin + strong enough to make some holes on the inside.

 

[PetFlora]

Even though growth has been very good, I made a minor (could be major) bulb swap. I replaced one Coral Wave with a UVL Aquasun, which has a good bit of g/y, sort of like a hps. I will reintroduce the CW in flower, or sooner if growth slows

Currently using 4 bulbs @ 54w as follows

3 ZooMed Florasun
4 UVL Aquasun
5 ZooMed Florasun
6 Quantum Flower

Positions 1/2 & 7/8 are on the outsides of the fixture, and not needed at this time

 

[PetFlora]

Been tweaking the halo system. Now drains back to rez, which frees up the time I can spend away from the system. Replaced the 2.5G rez bucket with a 10g tote for nutes. Had to raise the red tray up to get the drain tube above the lip of the tote. This means I will have to rebuild the light frame so I can compensate for the loss of head room as the plants grow tall

Happily (and excitedly), every node has a bud

Pic of rez shows drain back with filter. Filter may be too small and too fine. I have a bigger, coarser filter. Rez is kept covered.

View attachment 2663024View attachment 2663025View attachment 2663026

Upon closer inspection of the 6" halo ring, the middle row is centered, the other 2 equal distant apart. The center holes should be offset towards the inside of the rin,g and the inside row should be aiming near the middle of the grow pot.

Since the plants are doing extremely good (been hand watering around the main stalk) I put off going to my friend's dental lab until next Sunday

 

[PetFlora]

Ok then let us open some minds here


IMO high P foods are not desired at ANY TIME when growing in containers. The practice of high P foods for flower/bloom is a bleed over from Agriculture to Outdoor Gardening and very mistakenly applied to indoor/container gardening. The reason for the high P in Ag is P binds very regularly to organic materials and leaches away quickly causing deficiencies. So farmers combat this by upping the P and it worked. For a while. Then they found that they would have to do all sorts of extra work later after years as the soil was now P contaminated and leaching into ground water. Now they employ much smarter practices. But it's foothold is strong as it was the way for so long.

Now this was also caressed by indoor growers. And cannibis growers in complete error. First the P does not leech off in containers like in outdoor soil and it does not bind at near the degree it does in outdoor soil. Even more interesting is that of all the Macros Cannabis uses P the least even in flower. It uses three times more calcium in flower than it does P! This all from plant tissue analysis. Most of the time it is this mistaken practice of high P foods which causes the premature leaf loss in flower that so many think is normal. In actuality if cannabis is properly fed and grown the leaf drop signals that it is past it's prime and sustenance, or annual death after antithesis is occurring

Now as to your evaluation of crotchety ol UB, the old dude knows his shit. He is a real horticulturist bro. He is a consultant, IOW paid high dollar to advise winery grape growers at their craft. He also is growing avocado trees IN A GREENHOUSE (more liike a warehouse)and if you want to know difficult to grow they are big time. If he was stuck in old way he would be advising high P foods as that was the normal practice until of late. The only purpose one may suppose for kicking up the P K would be the final week before chop to cause a form of nutrient shock which some believe increases resin production. Myself I boost it a little the last week, but in mid flower I boost calcium and sulfur. Calcium not P is what makes the structure for buds and sulfur is required to produce the synthase protein enzymes that make the cannabinoids we desire. High P levels definitely limit production of flowers not boost it.

 

[PetFlora]

Here's a tip

Having a 10G rez (8 gal actual liquid) I can run the feed cycle longer. Upped it from ~ 20 sec > ~ 35 sec, meaning the roots are getting a nice long drink, plus the lava rock pockets are filling up. Timer is analog, I haven't bothered to lock in the exact amount of o/o times. I let the plant tell me whether to cut back, or keep going. I have fed during late veg (well established roots and leafs) every ~ 1/2hr, but during flower I cut back to ~ 1x /4hrs

 

[polyarcturus]

It occurs to me that the ring can also be used to tie down branches.

this made me laugh hard as hell.

 

[polyarcturus]

Even though growth has been very good, I made a minor (could be major) bulb swap. I replaced one Coral Wave with a UVL Aquasun, which has a good bit of g/y, sort of like a hps. I will reintroduce the CW in flower, or sooner if growth slows

Currently using 4 bulbs @ 54w as follows

3 ZooMed Florasun
4 UVL Aquasun
5 ZooMed Florasun
6 Quantum Flower

Positions 1/2 & 7/8 are on the outsides of the fixture, and not needed at this time

just though i would mention i am using the agromax bulbs, you can buy a mixed 8 pack from htg for 40 or something like that(check ebay then call them)
i have the 5700k(x2) and 10000k(x2) in addidtion to some florasun 5000k(x2) in my 6 bulb t5 and they are kicking ass. i find the offbrand can be just as good as the name brand, i have also determined the best 2 color temps for veg or flowers is the 10k, and the 5-6k ranges. the elimination for the blue phosphor for more red and green/yellow phosphors for a higher kelvin does not produce more usable red light, at least not in comparison to the amount of usable blue light that is lost.

anyways completing a grow under 10k and 5k only and well, results are great.

 

[PetFlora]

Good to see you here Poly.

Know anything about this light?

http://www.ncwgs.com/product_info.php?cPath=43&products_id=1637

When I bought my 8 bulb BadBoy I also bought 8 each Quantum Grow (6500) and Flower bulbs (2700). I had terrific growth using only the 6500, BUT, was thinking about adding something around 4-5000K. Then, I came across a thread titled LEDs Without LEDs My First T5 Grow.

This guy was exploring actinic type T5 bulbs from the aquarium industry. The thread had lots of followers/experimenters, and I got caught up in it, and bought a lot of good, but unnecessary bulbs. I probably would have similar results with the Quantum bulbs.

That said, I learned a lot from the experience, and had some pretty decent harvests, PLUS, I have virtually new Quantum bulbs. I'm thinking the UVL Aquasuns are similar to 5000K, though they look more yellow than the ZooMed Florosuns

As these bulbs age, I plan on replacing them with T5 retrofit LEDs http://www.ledwholesalers.com/store/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=827+ a cheap fixture (HO ballast not needed, or any ballast, as the leds have built in drivers). This also make a diy fixture super simple, especially with these

Product Information
Use these non-shunted tombstone lamp holders with our LED fluorescent tube replacements that are powered from one end. (Product code 1920) This lamp holder allows you to connect a live and neutral wire to one end of the tube.

Price: $1.50
http://www.ledwholesalers.com/store/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=1012

 

[PetFlora]

I only installed the halo rings system last Thursday morning, under ~ 220w, and had to do some o/o cycle tweaking + hand feeding as the roots were concentrated within 3" diameter to the main tap root. Haven't hand fed in 3 days. Yesterday I added 2 more bulbs (~ 318w) and took some pics. Clones taken were early budding sites, not quite "Monster" clone, but they do look similar.

Pic 4 is from my LED/bubbler set up using 6" net pot lids over 3g pails. Growth has been slow. Roots only began to break through the bottom 2-3 days ago. Also using the CREE bulbs was a waste. I learned the leds are on the sides, so very little light at the top of globe, meaning they were not really adding much PS for the plants to convert. From now on they should take off. I have another 3 socket light bar ready to add.

Seems clear that watering from the top speeds things up considerably

 

[PetFlora]

Buds have easily doubled in size since yesterday. I will take new pics tomorrow so you can see for yourselves

Unlike any systems (except hpa) that water from the bottom, which means the roots grow down in search of nutes, IMO, my version of the Halo Drip Ring provides an excellent environment to encourage lateral root development beginning just below the surface all the way to the bottom of the grow pot. Obviously, the more lateral root development the bigger the plant- more nodes, side branches during veg and more and better bud development in flower stage. Party cups need not apply

The only issue I have is the holes that disperse the nutes are poorly thought out, especially the inside holes, which should aim close to the main tap root. I have plans to re-aim the inside holes using dental drill bits.

This is clear evidence (to me at least) that a well designed grow medium/method is extremely important to maximize a well designed lighting system, perhaps more-so