Halp! Carbon filtering concentrates

[cycleogic]

To my knowledge, if you use carbon, you need to use a .2 micron syringe filter or else the carbon will leave fine dust in your oil. I use Whatman #1 lab filters which are 11 micron but I dont use carbon so I can't speak on how well they work for that.

 

[Fadedawg]

He understood the question. I was very direct.



Are you talking about plant waxes or petroleum products?

If he understood the question, then I suggest you find yourself another expert source. Did you ask about smoking or vaporizing and have either of you looked at how lungs work?

I also suggest that you have things backward. You are asking me to prove that vaporizing wax and coating our lungs is harmful, when NIOSH has long established that it is and the US, Canada, and the UK have set the low PEL of 2mg/M3.

They also set dust standards for candillilla and carnauba plant waxes as lung irritants of 6m/M3.

How can you possibly believe that coating something designed to absorb oxygen and release Co2, with an impervious wax that keeps it from doing so, is not a health issue?

Since you and your source are in opposition to NIOSH and three major countries, I suggest that you provide the extra normal proof for your extra normal claim.

PS: Europe also has similar wax respiratory standards, the three countries listed are just easier for me to access.

 

[vacpurge]

Well I imagine that putting heated oil in your lungs is going to burn.

oh gee. its funny that the winterized oil doesnt burn. whats your explaination for that?? obviously winterizing is removing something. obviously that something creates a hell of a burn/challenge to inhale again.

Winterized products don't taste as good.

youre doing it wrong. and no, im not going to teach you how to do it properly, nor prove why youre doing things wrong. I got better things to do with my time.

why are you even arguing??? no one here gives a shit about your argument. we all like winterized oil. we all like the "no burn" that comes with it. youre the only one thats bashing it and trying to say otherwise, fuck off already. start calling you oilmkr....

 

[Dan Kone]

They also set dust standards for candillilla and carnauba plant waxes as lung irritants of 6m/M3.

Is that for constant or limited exposure? What does irritant mean in that context? What is the specific negative impact?

How can you possibly believe that coating something designed to absorb oxygen and release Co2, with an impervious wax that keeps it from doing so, is not a health issue?

Because people have been smoking buds with plant waxes in them for the last 100 years and it hasn't been so bad. If vaporizing wax is healthier than smoking buds, I don't see it as a serious concern.

Plant wax is in every bud and virtually every concentrate since the beginning of time, but somehow wax is going to kill us all? I'm not buying it. Where are all these examples of health problems?

 

[Dan Kone]

oh gee. its funny that the winterized oil doesnt burn. whats your explaination for that?? obviously winterizing is removing something. obviously that something creates a hell of a burn/challenge to inhale again.

I find it hard to believe that heated oil doesn't burn.

youre doing it wrong. and no, im not going to teach you how to do it properly, nor prove why youre doing things wrong. I got better things to do with my time.

You're adding an additional solvent, dramatically changing temperature, and purging it off. If you think you don't lose terpenes you're just wrong. And I didn't ask how to do that.

why are you even arguing??? no one here gives a shit about your argument.

Yet you've responded several times. You know what I do when I don't give a shit about something? I don't respond. You've done the opposite.

we all like winterized oil. we all like the "no burn" that comes with it.

Which I've said many times is fine with me. I have no problem with people's personal preference. But do we really have to pretend smoking or vaporizing plant wax, which people have been doing for thousands of years is all of a sudden a health risk when it wasn't before?

youre the only one thats bashing it and trying to say otherwise, fuck off already. start calling you oilmkr....

Well you can do that sort of thing if you like, but it doesn't say a whole lot about you. GL riding fadedawg's dick. Hope it's comfortable.

Am I really not allowed to disagree with you with out it devolving into stuff like this?

 

[cycleogic]

When you're smoking flowers, those waxes/fats are in such low concentrations, they could never cause harm that way. In a concentrate, its concentrated. duh. lol as long as your dabbin on proper shit you should be okay. everyones lungs are different too so you may be able to dab on concrete all day with no problems while other people may need to dab on absolutes.

Winterizing does make your oil loose some flavor but usually not too much. Every run is different too so some may keep more flavor than others. and you shouldn't be heating it high enough to make it harsh or 'burn' at all. keep it 120F and below.

 

[Dan Kone]

When you're smoking flowers, those waxes/fats are in such low concentrations, they could never cause harm that way.

Sure they are in lower concentration, but you're smoking a higher over all volume. I doubt you're smoking less wax when you smoke a 3/4 gram joint than when you're smoking a 0.1 gram dab.

In a concentrate, its concentrated. duh.

thanks for clearing that up for me. I do get what you're saying. You're inhaling a larger volume of the wax per hit. Point taken. Just haven't seen evidence of any serious health risks associated with that.

lol as long as your dabbin on proper shit you should be okay.

And the more important part of that. Dabbing responsibly. If someone is dabbing half gram globs and they end up harming themselves, I don't feel particularly sorry for them. Can't save people from themselves. But for the people who engage in that sort of risky behavior, I do imagine that winterized oil is probably the way to go there.

everyones lungs are different too so you may be able to dab on concrete all day with no problems while other people may need to dab on absolutes.

Yep. That seems legit.

Winterizing does make your oil loose some flavor but usually not too much. Every run is different too so some may keep more flavor than others. and you shouldn't be heating it high enough to make it harsh or 'burn' at all. keep it 120F and below.

Sure, but even at 110 (my prefered temp) I'm definitely losing terpenes and activating a small portion of the thc (1-10%). The best way to get full flavor is definitely wax (well maybe budder). But yeah, you're right about it totally depending on the individual, their lungs, their preferences, etc.

 

[cycleogic]

Yeah I'm not sure anything serious has happened as far as that goes. I prefer shatter/sap. I like to be able to see through my oil, something about crystalizing those waxes/fats etc just doesnt sit right with me. I feel the cough lingers longer than some proper shatter. IDK maybe thats just my lungs but I just dont like/promote wax/budder.

Heres some winterized oil almost done

 

[Fadedawg]

Is that for constant or limited exposure? What does irritant mean in that context? What is the specific negative impact?



Because people have been smoking buds with plant waxes in them for the last 100 years and it hasn't been so bad. If vaporizing wax is healthier than smoking buds, I don't see it as a serious concern.

Plant wax is in every bud and virtually every concentrate since the beginning of time, but somehow wax is going to kill us all? I'm not buying it. Where are all these examples of health problems?

That's time weighted average. They measure it by putting a sampler on an individual and weighing the filter after a given amount of time.

Burning wax is a whole different set of issues than vaporizing it and coating your lungs with it. Combusting plant terpenes produces some incompletely combusted carcinogenic by products of pyrolysis.

I also got COPD from smoking cannabis, even if it may have protected me from cancinogens.

The negative impact of an irritant is COPD or cancer, depending on the irritant and individual. The negative impact of coating our lungs with wax, is that they no longer work until you expectorate the wax.

Fair enough, you don't have to buy, because no one is selling anything. Let those with ears hear! My answers aren't for your benefit, they are for the benefit of the noobes watching.

 

[Fadedawg]

Well you can do that sort of thing if you like, but it doesn't say a whole lot about you. GL riding fadedawg's dick. Hope it's comfortable.

Am I really not allowed to disagree with you with out it devolving into stuff like this?

I think your arguments are saying loads more about you, than the subject at hand. If you can't win the argument with fact, win it by defaming the opposing messenger.

A biochemist said so, bears little weight, because we've got one too and he disagrees with yours. Is the next step the challenge that my biochemist can whip yours?

You haven't provided any data refuting NIOSH standards, suggesting you either don't understand who they are, or knowing, have no competing data.

An alternate explanation of the NIOSH data appearing on MSDS sheets, will go further toward winning your point than your preoccupation with my dick.

Define devolve? Does it exclude what you are doing?

 

[Dan Kone]

That's time weighted average. They measure it by putting a sampler on an individual and weighing the filter after a given amount of time.

So not even remotely similar to just taking a dab and then breathing air. That makes that particular statistic completely meaningless.

I also got COPD from smoking cannabis, even if it may have protected me from cancinogens.

The negative impact of an irritant is COPD or cancer, depending on the irritant and individual. The negative impact of coating our lungs with wax, is that they no longer work until you expectorate the wax.

Here's the thing. While you're lecturing people on the evils of plant waxes, you're still pretending it's perfectly healthy to coat your lungs in oil. That is complete bullshit.

Here's my take. If you smoke weed or take dabs responsibly, it's not much of a health risk. If you abuse cannabis, it's going to be unhealthy. I don't care if you're smoking buds, dabbing wax, or smoking super veganic winterized oil. The same applies.

Fair enough, you don't have to buy, because no one is selling anything. Let those with ears hear! My answers aren't for your benefit, they are for the benefit of the noobes watching.

That's cool. But the whole "I'm being healthy!" act is sort of misleading. If you dab responsibly it's not that bad for you, if you dab irresponsibly isn't not. Simple as that. Whether you're coating your lungs in wax or oil, if you do it too much it's not healthy, and if you do it in moderation it's probably fine.

 

[Dan Kone]

I think your arguments are saying loads more about you, than the subject at hand. If you can't win the argument with fact, win it by defaming the opposing messenger.

As you go on to defame the messenger.... Cool story, bro

You haven't provided any data refuting NIOSH standards, suggesting you either don't understand who they are, or knowing, have no competing data.

If you want to believe that statistics that apply to constant exposure over time apply to taking a dab for 10 seconds that's up to you, but I know it's bullshit.

An alternate explanation of the NIOSH data appearing on MSDS sheets, will go further toward winning your point than your preoccupation with my dick.

Define devolve? Does it exclude what you are doing?

Nope it doesn't. You've got a good point there. But it doesn't exclude what you're doing either when you make cracks about me having a preoccupation with your dick.

I simply didn't think it was that cool to be told that the almighty fadedawg is above reproach and I dare not question him. That's ridiculous.

 

[Fadedawg]

Well you can do that sort of thing if you like, but it doesn't say a whole lot about you. GL riding fadedawg's dick. Hope it's comfortable.

Am I really not allowed to disagree with you with out it devolving into stuff like this?

Nope it doesn't. You've got a good point there. But it doesn't exclude what you're doing either when you make cracks about me having a preoccupation with your dick.

I simply didn't think it was that cool to be told that the almighty fadedawg is above reproach and I dare not question him. That's ridiculous.

Clearly it was you that entered my dick into the conversation, as seemingly you can't make your point without insults. I used it to emphasize a point and I can see that it struck home.

Fadedawg is clearly not above reproach, but then Fadedawg isn't the one saying things that fly in the face of medical science either.

It seems a little incongruous for you to be worried about what's cool, given your behavior towards others, and it would be a lie if I said that I'm sincerely sorry if someone has bruised your tender sensibilities in response.

Do you have any factual data to add, or do you really think this whole thread really about you.

 

[Dan Kone]

Clearly it was you that entered my dick into the conversation, as seemingly you can't make your point without insults. I used it to emphasize a point and I can see that it struck home.

Well when scrappy doo said "arguing with Fadedawg... come on. his iq is higher than this whole forum combined dude." followed by "youre wrong. hes right." with no explanation for why, that is indeed dick riding.

Fadedawg is clearly not above reproach, but then Fadedawg isn't the one saying things that fly in the face of medical science either.

Actually you are. You're pretending prolonged exposure is the same thing as taking a 5 second dab. When you misinterpret a study like that it's no longer science, it's psudo-science.

It seems a little incongruous for you to be worried about what's cool, given your behavior towards others,

My behavior? He threw out all sorts of accusations at me just because I politiely questioned the accuracy of something that you were saying. That's how this started, lets keep that in perspective. What you're doing is something similar to "boohoo, he shouldn't have hit me back".

Do you have any factual data to add, or do you really think this whole thread really about you

If I had no factual data, I'd have the same amount of data as you. GL fooling kids with your psudo-science.

 

[Fadedawg]

Well when scrappy doo said "arguing with Fadedawg... come on. his iq is higher than this whole forum combined dude." followed by "youre wrong. hes right." with no explanation for why, that is indeed dick riding.



Actually you are. You're pretending prolonged exposure is the same thing as taking a 5 second dab. When you misinterpret a study like that it's no longer science, it's psudo-science.



My behavior? He threw out all sorts of accusations at me just because I politiely questioned the accuracy of something that you were saying. That's how this started, lets keep that in perspective. What you're doing is something similar to "boohoo, he shouldn't have hit me back".



If I had no factual data, I'd have the same amount of data as you. GL fooling kids with your psudo-science.

I think I'm starting to see a pattern here. You are unable to tell the difference between someone telling you that you're wrong and your sexually suggestive responses.

Clearly he used hyperbole, because I'm not that smart, but if you can possibly find your way past that, his message was that you were wrong. Somehow it also brought my dick to your mind, hence my comment in response.

Now after all the smoke and mirrors, and sniveling about your bruised sensibilities, you are still wrong and getting more loudly so.

OK, fair enough; shall we take off the gloves and cut to the chase? I can surely match you insult for insult, but this thread isn't about petty egoes, it is about information sharing.

I've said that vaporizing any wax and inhaling it, is insalubrious because it coats the air sacks and prevents the exchange of oxygen and C02.

You've made it clear that you not only don't believe that, but have labeled it as "BS."

Frankly, that you would even question whether coating your lungs with wax is unhealthy, says enough about not only your ignorance, but your capacity to learn new things, that I now recognize there is little hope for you.

Have it your way and have a nice day! Beyond education, I make it a point never to stand between Mother Nature and her gene pool management.

All the rest of ya'll folks, don't take the infinitely failable Fadedawg's word for it, please read the MSDS sheets or simply ask any respiratory physician or hygienist what their views are.

Ask them not only what the effects would be, but how incredibly stupid the argument is, that it wouldn't be unhealthy.

Lastly you might ask them how that relates to Fadedawg's dick or the carbon filtration topic of this thread, and watch their blank faces.

 

[Fadedawg]

arguing with Fadedawg... come on. his iq is higher than this whole forum combined dude. youre wrong. hes right.

Well you can do that sort of thing if you like, but it doesn't say a whole lot about you. GL riding fadedawg's dick. Hope it's comfortable.

Am I really not allowed to disagree with you with out it devolving into stuff like this?

Debate is always good, because challenging accepted ideas is how ideas are tempered and progress is made, but at some point debate becomes bickering.

That point is usually when one side or the other moves from the topic, to a personal attack of the messenger, after which little constructive is accomplished.

Above case in point. Those paying attention will note that the above hyperbolic statement is still cajoling, while the response clearly was not and a personal attack.

To the side issue, at best Fadedawg is an idiot savant, testing in the upper quartile in mechanical and abstract reasoning, but not only ignorant, but abysmally un-gifted in other areas.

I invite discussion to help me through my areas of ignorance, but Ma and my first two wives already told me what a miserable person I am, so it is unlikely I will be further enlightened by that input after seven decades, or that the rest of the forum members aren't bright enough to figure it out on their own.

 

[Dan Kone]

Debate is always good, because challenging accepted ideas is how ideas are tempered and progress is made, but at some point debate becomes bickering.

We've passed that point. Didn't come here for a pissing contest, didn't mean to derail the thread. Just wanted to add my $0.02. Carry on.

 

[Dan Kone]

I've said that vaporizing any wax and inhaling it, is insalubrious because it coats the air sacks and prevents the exchange of oxygen and C02.

You've made it clear that you not only don't believe that, but have labeled it as "BS."

Perspective: you're coating your lungs with oil which does the same thing.

Frankly, that you would even question whether coating your lungs with wax is unhealthy, says enough about not only your ignorance, but your capacity to learn new things, that I now recognize there is little hope for you.

Questioning things isn't what makes one ignorant.

 

[Fadedawg]

Perspective: you're coating your lungs with oil which does the same thing.



Questioning things isn't what makes one ignorant.

You clearly don't know the difference between a wax and an aromatic Alkene, do you?

I would offer to share that with you, but you wouldn't believe me.

You're right about questioning not making one ignorant, refusing to accept the answers keeps one that way though.

 

[Dan Kone]

You clearly don't know the difference between a wax and an aromatic Alkene, do you?

I would offer to share that with you, but you wouldn't believe me.

I don't know the practical difference, no. Hey, I'm sure it is slightly better to winterize wax because you're coating your lungs with less material. I just don't want to pretend that dabbing wax is some huge health risk while dabbing oils is perfectly ok.

You're right about questioning not making one ignorant, refusing to accept the answers keeps one that way though.

I refused to accept the answer because the answer was based on a false equivalency. Your answer cited breathing in wax at a constant level when is not the same thing as taking a couple of dabs a day. We aren't talking about constantly inhaling wax all day so that explanation was invalid.