The French Cannoli` Hash Thread

[snowboarder396]

This is interesting regarding CO2 and Butane for extracting volatile terpenes. Since butane is the current industry standard for extracting oils from the plants, we often see a heavy loss in terpenes. Like C02 extraction, butane is often used in the perfume making process through a different process referred to as "Super Critical Fluid Extraction", this is when the solvent/s are purged in a closed loop system under tremendous pressure (ranging from 0-10,000 psi). When using CO2 or Butane solvents all hydrocarbons, fatty acids, lipids, and oils are extracted in this particular process- so you rarely get the perfect mixture of THC and Terpenes devoid of lipids and fatty acids (i.e. filler). The benefit to SFE extraction is you can fine-tune your calibrations to extract ONLY the terpenes from other oils and hydrocarbons present in the plant matter. Currently since OIL is the rage most CO2 SFE extractions are calibrated towards extracting the THC-laden essential oils, and when SFE is calibrated in such a manner we often loose a large amount of terpenes. The reserve can also be true, essential oil SFE extracted solely for volatile terpenes can leave out a large portions of desired THC. Although it is possible to fine-tune the extraction process to include both high concentrations of terpenes and THC, I personally haven't seen it done yet. A dear colleague of mine whom is a chemist from Humboldt State University, says this is definitely possible however this perfect balance would be the holy grail of closed-loop SFE CO2 extraction. But due to the exorbitant cost of the SFE machinery ($25,000-$30,000) and intense technical knowledge and expertise needed to achieve the "perfect-calibrations" we haven't seen much SFE CO2 or Butane oil on the market that can achieve similar results to the taste and aroma of traditional pressed hashish. Friends of mine have executed CO2 extraction with test result in the 94% THC range however it majorly lacked an intense nose and for the most part was devoid of any taste- but it was STTRROOOONNNNGGG.

But it is only a matter of time before a bright mind perfects the method and delivers top quality tasting oils

Not to mention butane changes the molecules on a molecular level. Even if they had it dialed in like you spoke of I'd still probably stick with water extractions. I have yet to see testing done and have argued it in the weed nerd thread. No matter how much you purge your not gonna get all the butane out. Not to mention the possibility of being blown up with all these new people trying to get into doing it at home. Everybody has theeir own favored methods, to me ice water extractions are where it is not only for safety reasons but terpenes, taste. Good info btw.

 

[Cannabis Aficionado]

Thats the same info I came across when I started looking in to CO2 extraction. The cost is very prohibitive, but the potential seems to be almost limitless. The ability to "fine-tune" as you said is fascinating to me. I think being able to pick and choose which terpenes, and cannabinoids you extract which allows such control over the final product would be amazing!

Exactly! That's what attracted me to CO2 extraction, the immense ability to fine-tune was all too alluring. However I lack the chemistry background to fully express SFE's true potential. Now I'm a dedicated ice-water hash addict, thanks to Frenchy

 

[Cannabis Aficionado]

not to mention butane changes the molecules on a molecular level. Even if they had it dialed in like you spoke of i'd still probably stick with water extractions. I have yet to see testing done and have argued it in the weed nerd thread. No matter how much you purge your not gonna get all the butane out. Not to mention the possibility of being blown up with all these new people trying to get into doing it at home. Everybody has theeir own favored methods, to me ice water extractions are where it is not only for safety reasons but terpenes, taste. Good info btw.

standing ovation - you my friend, just hit the nail on the head- bravo

 

[Frenchy Cannoli]

Yes it will be and the knowledge to do the fine tuning already exist, it is in the perfume industry. The knowledge they have on extracting the most volatile terpenoids has been build on hundred of years of experience.
Do not expect the holy grail from the cannabis industry extract artists, or not for a good while.

 

[thetrickstergod]

Maybe a well-funded Colorado cannabis start-up could recruit a top-shelf aromachologist to setup a dialed-in operation.

 

[Cannabis Aficionado]

Yes it will be and the knowledge to do the fine tuning already exist, it is in the perfume industry. The knowledge they have on extracting the most volatile terpenoids has been build on hundred of years of experience.
Do not expect the holy grail from the cannabis industry extract artists, or not for a good while.

I'm beginning to wonder what other game-changing tricks you have up your sleeve Frenchy

And for thetrickstergod- nice to see somebody who has an obvious forward thinking enterprising mind-set. I do believe it's highly likely that certain "other-than-ancillary" cannabusiness start-ups will be pursuing such endevors, since the largest hurdles in that arena are 1. funding and 2. technical expertise. This is be a very interesting industry once the venture funnel opens to cannabis-based businesses.

 

[Frenchy Cannoli]

I come from the perfume Mecca, the essences making designer perfume were born in South of France and are still exported all over the world so may be one trick

 

[Mohican]

I love the way my leftover bubble water smells. It is almost like smelling fresh flowers in the rain

Unfortunately I know what smelling these wonderful aromas means, I am losing some desired botanicals to the water.

I know I could use a simple distilling method to collect different distillates and test them for organic compounds using GCMS or MNR spectroscopy. My Alma Mater has such equipment and performs these kinds of tests daily. I need to get in touch with one of the Chemistry Professors and see what it would take to perform these experiments. Then we could have a way of separating all of the desirable compounds from the water.

I have seen some CO2 systems on threads that are amazing and get some beautiful looking product. But if it is flavorless and odorless what's the point?

It would be like eating clear gelatin and washing it down with distilled water. It may feed the body but not the soul.

 

[Thundercat]

The CO2 extract I had at the cannabis cup in Denver was very flavor full. It was at the Bid Buddha tent a rock diesel extract, it was bright red and had very strong pine and earth flavors. I had lots of extracts that day and others could have been CO2 but thats the only one I remember asking about ....Dab City!

The more I read this thread the more it makes me really wish I had some bubble hash. I may have to call stephanie and order some bags and just save enough trim till its worth while to run it.

 

[Frenchy Cannoli]

The CO2 extract I had at the cannabis cup in Denver was very flavor full. It was at the Bid Buddha tent a rock diesel extract, it was bright red and had very strong pine and earth flavors. I had lots of extracts that day and others could have been CO2 but thats the only one I remember asking about ....Dab City!

The more I read this thread the more it makes me really wish I had some bubble hash. I may have to call stephanie and order some bags and just save enough trim till its worth while to run it.

OH YES YOU SHOULD! We will keep you drooling with stories and pics until you do

 

[Frenchy Cannoli]

I love the way my leftover bubble water smells. It is almost like smelling fresh flowers in the rain

Unfortunately I know what smelling these wonderful aromas means, I am losing some desired botanicals to the water.

I know I could use a simple distilling method to collect different distillates and test them for organic compounds using GCMS or MNR spectroscopy. My Alma Mater has such equipment and performs these kinds of tests daily. I need to get in touch with one of the Chemistry Professors and see what it would take to perform these experiments. Then we could have a way of separating all of the desirable compounds from the water.

I have seen some CO2 systems on threads that are amazing and get some beautiful looking product. But if it is flavorless and odorless what's the point?

It would be like eating clear gelatin and washing it down with distilled water. It may feed the body but not the soul.

Not everybody is trying to retain only the cannabinoids and you know it when you smell it. But at the same I once smelled the most amazing C02 extract and what a let down when the taste was non existent, very few Butane artists will give you all and clean

 

[snowboarder396]

Yes it will be and the knowledge to do the fine tuning already exist, it is in the perfume industry. The knowledge they have on extracting the most volatile terpenoids has been build on hundred of years of experience.Do not expect the holy grail from the cannabis industry extract artists, or not for a good while.

I'm not to sure about how they extract terpenes or aroma/smells but if it's like the things we have been talking about such as butane co2 etc. I can't imagine the process is any cleaner. Especially for consumption use when their in goal is for smell/aroma. Which isn't being directly ingested into the body.

 

['ome Grown]

co2 extract is standard for hop extract in the beer industry (mostly the big boys though). There are hops that smell similar to marijuana, because they produce similar terpenes (myrcene is one - which is also used in the fragrance/perfume industry). I'm sure there must be some knowledge of specific terpene extraction with co2 in the beer industry that could easily cross over to the cannabis industry.

 

[snowboarder396]

Frenchy here is a link for what you asked for earlier. I may have more info and articles on aromatherapy and terpenes regarding marijuana but I'll have to wait till I'm able to get on my computer to find those again

http://berkeleypatientscare.com/2010/10/08/terpenes-terpenoids-and-cannabis/

 

[Frenchy Cannoli]

Frenchy here is a link for what you asked for earlier. I may have more info and articles on aromatherapy and terpenes regarding marijuana but I'll have to wait till I'm able to get on my computer to find those again

http://berkeleypatientscare.com/2010/10/08/terpenes-terpenoids-and-cannabis/

A big thanks from everyone here

 

[Frenchy Cannoli]

I'm not to sure about how they extract terpenes or aroma/smells but if it's like the things we have been talking about such as butane co2 etc. I can't imagine the process is any cleaner. Especially for consumption use when their in goal is for smell/aroma. Which isn't being directly ingested into the body.

In south of France the main process is steam distillation and has been for hundred of years

 

[thetrickstergod]

speaking of hops extraction...look what Hop Developments Limited is trying to patent:
Cannabinoid extraction method
US 6403126 B1
ABSTRACT
A method of extracting cannabinoids, cannflavins, and/or essential oils from hemp and/or of producing a whole hemp extract lacking Δ[SUP]9[/SUP]-THC is herein described. The industrial hemp is harvested and the chaff is threshed from the seeds. The chaff is then ground and the ground chaff is extracted with an organic solvent. The extract is then loaded onto a chromatographic column selected to fractionate specific cannabinoids, cannflavins, and essential oils. In one embodiment, Δ[SUP]9[/SUP]-THC is fractionated out of the extract, producing a whole hemp extract lacking Δ[SUP]9[/SUP]-THC. In other embodiments, specific cannabinoids and related compounds of interest are fractionated out, thereby producing purified cannabinoids, cannflavins, and related compounds.

 

[Cannabis Aficionado]

speaking of hops extraction...look what Hop Developments Limited is trying to patent:
Cannabinoid extraction method
US 6403126 B1
ABSTRACT
A method of extracting cannabinoids, cannflavins, and/or essential oils from hemp and/or of producing a whole hemp extract lacking Δ[SUP]9[/SUP]-THC is herein described. The industrial hemp is harvested and the chaff is threshed from the seeds. The chaff is then ground and the ground chaff is extracted with an organic solvent. The extract is then loaded onto a chromatographic column selected to fractionate specific cannabinoids, cannflavins, and essential oils. In one embodiment, Δ[SUP]9[/SUP]-THC is fractionated out of the extract, producing a whole hemp extract lacking Δ[SUP]9[/SUP]-THC. In other embodiments, specific cannabinoids and related compounds of interest are fractionated out, thereby producing purified cannabinoids, cannflavins, and related compounds.

this is stellar research- big ups!

 

[vacpurge]

what kind of returns are you guys seeing with your hash?

ive noticed that most patties you guys post are somewhat small (no offense) and im sure youre using major amounts of quality trim!!! which makes me think you guys are getting an extremely low yield (less than 5% weight) but extreme quality. the low returns is something that has always turned me away from bubble hash. I just dont have the mass material that all you lucky legal guys are playing with!

I used 100g of nice material one time and got something like 5-7g of average hash that looked like plain ol pressed kief. no melt. I mixed it with a drill though... pretty rough.

if I had rinsed that 100g with butane, it would have produced over 17g of very potent oil, whereas the hash produced 7g of medium quality hash??

 

[Frenchy Cannoli]

what kind of returns are you guys seeing with your hash?

ive noticed that most patties you guys post are somewhat small (no offense) and im sure youre using major amounts of quality trim!!! which makes me think you guys are getting an extremely low yield (less than 5% weight) but extreme quality. the low returns is something that has always turned me away from bubble hash. I just dont have the mass material that all you lucky legal guys are playing with!

I used 100g of nice material one time and got something like 5-7g of average hash that looked like plain ol pressed kief. no melt. I mixed it with a drill though... pretty rough.

if I had rinsed that 100g with butane, it would have produced over 17g of very potent oil, whereas the hash produced 7g of medium quality hash??

Somewhere between 20 to 65 g per pound of sugar trims, it all depend on the strain and the grower