A bad few months for teenage boys...

[desert dude]

Another teenage boy shot. Those damn SYG laws will be the death of all of us.

"On Friday a New Orleans homeowner was arrested for attempted second-degree murder after shooting a teenager who had climbed over his fence in the middle of the night. Merritt Landry, who works as a building inspector for the city's Historic District Landmarks Commission, said he believed Marshall Coulter, a 14-year-old with a history of burglary arrests, was about to break into his home. Awakened by his dog's barking, Landry went outside to see what was going on and saw Coulter in his driveway a few feet from his back door. Landry said that as he approached Coulter the teenager made a "move, as if to reach for something." Landry said he fired at that point, fearing that Coulter had a weapon. But police said Coulter, who was struck in the head and critically wounded, was unarmed and did not pose the sort of "imminent threat" that would justify the use of deadly force. Based on where they found blood and a shell casing, they estimated that Landry shot Coulter from a distance of about 30 feet."


http://reason.com/blog/2013/07/28/new-orleans-man-arrested-for-attempted-m

 

[AlabamaRedneck]

IDK...SYG laws make SOME sense...not complete sense, but SOME sense...

I HATE the whole Trayvon/Zimmerman saga...I lived through the black/white confrontations of the "Deep South 1960s"...and it was HELL...

I don't know the answer...there is no definitive answer...just a bunch of GOOD questions...

 

[GreenSummit]

it gives good people the opportunity to not be prosecuted by criminals breaking into their homes when we shoot them. theres no reason anyone i dont invite should be on my property, especially after dark. if so, they should expect to be shot or tomahawked.

 

[racerboy71]

it gives good people the opportunity to not be prosecuted by criminals breaking into their homes when we shoot them. theres no reason anyone i dont invite should be on my property, especially after dark. if so, they should expect to be shot or tomahawked.

Idk.. seems a bit extreme as i hadn't realized the penalty for trespassing was facing the firing squad..
If it was someone armed and in my house posing danger to my family, I would see things a bit differently, but firing squad for simple trespassing seems a bit extreme no matter how I look at it..
My $.02 worth ...

 

[UncleBuck]

Idk.. seems a bit extreme as i hadn't realized the penalty for trespassing was facing the firing squad..
If it was someone armed and in my house posing danger to my family, I would see things a bit differently, but firing squad for simple trespassing seems a bit extreme no matter how I look at it..
My $.02 worth ...

exactly.

who knows if the kid was trying to sneak over to his friend's house and accidentally hopped the wrong gate.

why not just tell him to freeze and hold him at gunpoint like the professionals would do?

 

[BigNBushy]

Idk.. seems a bit extreme as i hadn't realized the penalty for trespassing was facing the firing squad..
If it was someone armed and in my house posing danger to my family, I would see things a bit differently, but firing squad for simple trespassing seems a bit extreme no matter how I look at it..
My $.02 worth ...

It isn't trespassing, its creating a noise loud enough to wake up a homeowner, then not acting with contrition in his presence. This is enough to get shot, and the fucker deserved to get shot. I would have made him bite the curb.

 

[AlabamaRedneck]

exactly.

who knows if the kid was trying to sneak over to his friend's house and accidentally hopped the wrong gate.

why not just tell him to freeze and hold him at gunpoint like the professionals would do?

Because Zimm wasn't a professional...as Jay Z stated (correctly), Zimm wasn't even a fucking mall cop...he had no training, but was operating within the laws on the books...blame the laws, but not him...

 

[racerboy71]

exactly.

who knows if the kid was trying to sneak over to his friend's house and accidentally hopped the wrong gate.

why not just tell him to freeze and hold him at gunpoint like the professionals would do?

I agree UB .. IMO, it kind of seems that what some of these syg laws want to do is take the law out of the courts and put it back into the people's hands.
We all know that our justice system is far from perfect, but without it it would seem that we'd simply have a bunch of vigilantes running around taking things in their own hands.
Like I said earlier, someone enters into my home and is thinking about harming me or mine, well, it's game on, but simple trespassing shouldn't result in murder imvho.. many better ways it could have been handled..
Like UB said.. hold him under gun point and call the cops.. fire a warning shot and scare the bejesus out of the kid and don't call the cops.. either way ..

 

[racerboy71]

It isn't trespassing, its creating a noise loud enough to wake up a homeowner, then not acting with contrition in his presence. This is enough to get shot, and the fucker deserved to get shot. I would have made him bite the curb.

Sounded to me the guys own dogs barking woke him up and not the kid..
Maybe the guy should have shot his own dog for waking him and not the kid, lol..

 

[budlover13]

I agree UB .. IMO, it kind of seems that what some of these syg laws want to do is take the law out of the courts and put it back into the people's hands.
We all know that our justice system is far from perfect, but without it it would seem that we'd simply have a bunch of vigilantes running around taking things in their own hands.
Like I said earlier, someone enters into my home and is thinking about harming me or mine, well, it's game on, but simple trespassing shouldn't result in murder imvho.. many better ways it could have been handled..
Like UB said.. hold him under gun point and call the cops.. fire a warning shot and scare the bejesus out of the kid and don't call the cops.. either way ..

According to all firearms training I have ever received, both public and LEO, warning shots are NEVER the proper action to take. Holding at gunpoint is a good idea but ultimately, a gun should only be fired at someone when you are in credible fear for your life/safety or that of another. And at THAT point, center mass is where it's at.

 

[DeeTee]

I think this whole business of SYG laws is getting out of hand, sure like racerboy says if iminant danger it could be justified, but who judges what is iminant danger.

 

[ChesusRice]

Another teenage boy shot. Those damn SYG laws will be the death of all of us.

"On Friday a New Orleans homeowner was arrested for attempted second-degree murder after shooting a teenager who had climbed over his fence in the middle of the night. Merritt Landry, who works as a building inspector for the city's Historic District Landmarks Commission, said he believed Marshall Coulter, a 14-year-old with a history of burglary arrests, was about to break into his home. Awakened by his dog's barking, Landry went outside to see what was going on and saw Coulter in his driveway a few feet from his back door. Landry said that as he approached Coulter the teenager made a "move, as if to reach for something." Landry said he fired at that point, fearing that Coulter had a weapon. But police said Coulter, who was struck in the head and critically wounded, was unarmed and did not pose the sort of "imminent threat" that would justify the use of deadly force. Based on where they found blood and a shell casing, they estimated that Landry shot Coulter from a distance of about 30 feet."


http://reason.com/blog/2013/07/28/new-orleans-man-arrested-for-attempted-m

So how does this compare to Zimmerman the stalking vigilante?

It doesnt

False equivalancy

 

[BigNBushy]

Sounded to me the guys own dogs barking woke him up and not the kid..
Maybe the guy should have shot his own dog for waking him and not the kid, lol..

Sort of like saying the guys alarm woke him up (after the kid kicked in a door silently).

 

[desert dude]

So how does this compare to Zimmerman the stalking vigilante?

It doesnt

False equivalancy

It would be a false equivalency if I had said they were equivalent. You may now continue the discussion with the voices in your head.

 

[NoDrama]

exactly.

who knows if the kid was trying to sneak over to his friend's house and accidentally hopped the wrong gate.

why not just tell him to freeze and hold him at gunpoint like the professionals would do?

Because that would be false imprisonment, a felony.

He should have called the police and hid in a closet until they got there.

 

[desert dude]

exactly.

who knows if the kid was trying to sneak over to his friend's house and accidentally hopped the wrong gate.

why not just tell him to freeze and hold him at gunpoint like the professionals would do?

Here is how the professionals do it:

"Early Saturday morning, Roy Middleton was rummaging through his mother's car in the driveway of his Warrington, Florida, home, looking for a cigarette, when he heard someone bark, "Get your hands where I can see them!" Middleton initially thought it was a neighbor playing a joke on him, but when he turned his head he saw Escambia County sheriff's deputies standing in his driveway. The next thing he knew, he says, they were shooting at him. "It was like a firing squad," Middleton told the Pensacola News Journal. "Bullets were flying everywhere." Middleton was lucky the deputies were terrible shots. His injuries were limited to a leg wound. "My mother's car is full of bullet holes though," he said. "My wife had to go and get a rental."


http://reason.com/blog/2013/07/29/cigarettes-can-kill-florida-deputies-sho

 

[doublejj]

Kind of reminds me of this guy in Sacramento. Came home at 3:00am to find his home ransacked. Grabbed an ax and went outside & chased down the first person he saw & killed him with 4 ax blows to the head. He said he though the victim must have been guilty because he ran from him........Yeah, the victim ran from a guy with an ax at 3:00am......= guilty!.........Rio Linda ax murder trial begins
By Sam Stanton
[email protected]
A Rio Linda ax murder trial began in Sacramento Superior Court today with the prosecutor claiming defendant Steven Zinda chased down his victim and killed him in a muddy field with four chops to his head in a premeditated and deliberate slaying.
But Zinda's defense attorney claims the death of David Valdez in March 2011 was the product of a burglary Zinda interrupted at his home and came only after Zinda and Valdez struggled outside the home.
"At the end of the case, we're going to ask you to find Mr. Zinda guilty of a homicide, and the homicide will be voluntary manslaughter," defense attorney Tom Johnson told the jury this morning in a third floor courtroom at the courthouse downtown.

The case may come down to whether the jury believes Zinda's anger when he came home to find the burglary in progress at 3 a.m. was reasonable enough for the actions that he took after he found his house ransacked.
Authorities say Zinda came outside after discovering the burglary and saw Valdez standing down the street near his Honda Passport, which was stuck in the mud.
Zinda believed Valdez was involved in the burglary and confronted him with the ax. Valdez began running but Zinda eventually caught up to him in a muddy field, where a struggle ensued before Zinda delivered the ax blows, one of which penetrated the victim's skull and severed his brain.
Deputy District Attorney Sheri Greco told the jury in her opening statement this morning that Valdez, 20, had been attending a party in the neighborhood and was killed simply because he was standing beside his truck waiting for friends to return and help him pull it out of a ditch.
When Zinda saw him standing outside down the street from his house, she said, Zinda decided he was involved in the burglary and confronted him.
"Mr. Zinda approaches him with ax in hand and says, 'What's the matter, buddy? Your friends leave you?'"
At that point, Valdez took off running, eventually covering a quarter mile before Zinda caught him.
"He is literally running for his life," Greco said.
In interviews with sheriff's detectives later, Greco said, Zinda made it clear that he was after Valdez.
"Mr. Zinda admits, 'Yeah, I was coming for him like Deliverance,'" she said.
Greco said Zinda hit Valdez three times in the face with the ax and began to walk off until he saw Valdez struggling to get back up. Zinda returned and gave him a fourth blow to the back of his scalp, she said, and later told detectives that he wanted to "finish him off."
Valdez never posed a threat to Zinda, she added.
But Johnson painted an entirely different picture of events that rainy night, saying Zinda came home from visiting a friend around 3 a.m. and saw his garage door open.
Zinda, who lived in the home with his young son, was extremely upset when he discovered his bedroom ransacked. Zinda's son was not at the house at the time, but Zinda was concerned about the violation of their home.
"He's basically a middle class man raising a kid on his own," Johnson said. "This is all he had."
When Zinda saw Valdez outside, his initial thought that he was one of the burglars "was absolutely the right thing to think," Johnson said.
"Mr. Zinda was angry about what happened in his house, as any reasonable person would be," he said.
"From there, this spiraled quickly, and within moments Mr. Valdez was deceased," Johnson added.
But Johnson insisted his client acted out of momentary rage and is not a murderer.

"Did he feel horrible about it? Yes," Johnson said. "Is he a cold-blooded murderer? Absolutely not."

Read more here: http://blogs.sacbee.com/crime/archives/2012/11/rio-linda-ax-murder-trial-begins.html#storylink=cpy​

 

[NoDrama]

Kind of reminds me of this guy in Sacramento. Came home at 3:00am to find his home ransacked. Grabbed an ax and went outside & chased down the first person he saw & killed him with 4 ax blows to the head. He said he though the victim must have been guilty because he ran from him........Yeah, the victim ran from a guy with an ax at 3:00am......= guilty!.........Rio Linda ax murder trial begins
By Sam Stanton
[email protected]
A Rio Linda ax murder trial began in Sacramento Superior Court today with the prosecutor claiming defendant Steven Zinda chased down his victim and killed him in a muddy field with four chops to his head in a premeditated and deliberate slaying.
But Zinda's defense attorney claims the death of David Valdez in March 2011 was the product of a burglary Zinda interrupted at his home and came only after Zinda and Valdez struggled outside the home.
"At the end of the case, we're going to ask you to find Mr. Zinda guilty of a homicide, and the homicide will be voluntary manslaughter," defense attorney Tom Johnson told the jury this morning in a third floor courtroom at the courthouse downtown.

The case may come down to whether the jury believes Zinda's anger when he came home to find the burglary in progress at 3 a.m. was reasonable enough for the actions that he took after he found his house ransacked.
Authorities say Zinda came outside after discovering the burglary and saw Valdez standing down the street near his Honda Passport, which was stuck in the mud.
Zinda believed Valdez was involved in the burglary and confronted him with the ax. Valdez began running but Zinda eventually caught up to him in a muddy field, where a struggle ensued before Zinda delivered the ax blows, one of which penetrated the victim's skull and severed his brain.
Deputy District Attorney Sheri Greco told the jury in her opening statement this morning that Valdez, 20, had been attending a party in the neighborhood and was killed simply because he was standing beside his truck waiting for friends to return and help him pull it out of a ditch.
When Zinda saw him standing outside down the street from his house, she said, Zinda decided he was involved in the burglary and confronted him.
"Mr. Zinda approaches him with ax in hand and says, 'What's the matter, buddy? Your friends leave you?'"
At that point, Valdez took off running, eventually covering a quarter mile before Zinda caught him.
"He is literally running for his life," Greco said.
In interviews with sheriff's detectives later, Greco said, Zinda made it clear that he was after Valdez.
"Mr. Zinda admits, 'Yeah, I was coming for him like Deliverance,'" she said.
Greco said Zinda hit Valdez three times in the face with the ax and began to walk off until he saw Valdez struggling to get back up. Zinda returned and gave him a fourth blow to the back of his scalp, she said, and later told detectives that he wanted to "finish him off."
Valdez never posed a threat to Zinda, she added.
But Johnson painted an entirely different picture of events that rainy night, saying Zinda came home from visiting a friend around 3 a.m. and saw his garage door open.
Zinda, who lived in the home with his young son, was extremely upset when he discovered his bedroom ransacked. Zinda's son was not at the house at the time, but Zinda was concerned about the violation of their home.
"He's basically a middle class man raising a kid on his own," Johnson said. "This is all he had."
When Zinda saw Valdez outside, his initial thought that he was one of the burglars "was absolutely the right thing to think," Johnson said.
"Mr. Zinda was angry about what happened in his house, as any reasonable person would be," he said.
"From there, this spiraled quickly, and within moments Mr. Valdez was deceased," Johnson added.
But Johnson insisted his client acted out of momentary rage and is not a murderer.

"Did he feel horrible about it? Yes," Johnson said. "Is he a cold-blooded murderer? Absolutely not."

Read more here: http://blogs.sacbee.com/crime/archives/2012/11/rio-linda-ax-murder-trial-begins.html#storylink=cpy​

This is why you should carry a gun with you.

 

[doublejj]

This is why you should carry a gun with you.

This guy Zinda was basically Zimmerman but with an ax............

 

[desert dude]

Somebody on RIU uses an ax as a home defense weapon. Take note...