Carruthers Appeal to the Supreme Court

[buckaroo bonzai]

i been giving u the benefit of the doubt ozz-

cuz joe always said u were good-

i see ur heart-
he was right.....

dont take my post personal....
...but im gonna rant here
sit down and have a phattie

....i wont step on the thread again tho unless invited....hostile or friendly

-i know im gonna catch hell and a lot of heat for this from other asleeppatients but here goes......



ur gonna get <nowhere> in here tho>IMHO< ....mayb a bag of peanuts worth

(keep trying tho if it makes you feel like u are making a difference....i hope u are but know different)

try the other states forums-


whoever here was gonna send donations prolly already did-

most of us in here know the case

many of us are refugees in here from the 3ma and their movie....

we can speak our mind in here tho
<uncensored> thnks to the high holy named rollitup-(and our cuteinvisible mod)

lots here see right thru the other sites rhetoric and covert posturing tho-

the other site is owned....operated and censored by a lawyer and his 'friends'[sic]

--i always wonder how much $$ they all have in stocks of all these mmj corps they are helping bring online
--lots and lots i would think...


theres lots of concious people in here ozz
were still watching the movie they are directing there-

.....cognizant awake and aware somthing aint right over at that 'other' site-



but-

you want me to give >$$$$$$< to mr R__lin_??? tho? [he aint got enuff?]


and mR k and the aBl guy(same lawyers orchestrating the whole movie)


>>>>for a guy who was caught driving around trying to sell brownies to dispensaries?
(were any of the dispensaries mr R or mR a clients??)

--lawyer who is top doggz in the CPU group?
--lawyer that represents dispensaries too?

patients and dispensaries....?...
--you dont see the conflict of interest?




.....(liayers) from the CPU group for 'steakholders' only-

-that allegedly are the recognized patient 'advocates' group here in michigan...

-the patient group that have secret meetings for big $$$doners/members ONLY-(no patients allowed) group-

-the group that is 40%lawyers and........ ANY patients voice? --proffessional steakholders only...no little guys(you\me)

--same group whos minions and proffesionals attacked patients like vicious wolves when they took over the other site and began pushing their rhetoric and unambiguous compliance format

--the group that has pulled the patients around by their dicks on rollerskates to where we are now.....
--for the lawyers benefit ..not ours-

same group herding all us 'cats'(pts) [as they said] into the box they are covertly helping to contstruct?

you know the <neutered> 'compassion' club format of ""unambiguous compliance""

where you are not supposed to use the format for anything but vetting pts w/cgs to >sell your weed

--you have to find 5sick dying patients that will pay you to grow their weed....[sic]

the unambiguous compliance box they were telling all the patients to get into while some of their administrators were running warehouse grows for their clients-



--thats what they gave us-



defense proof-
conviction proof-

2 choices with no rights.....




and now you want us to pay lawyers from the same group to help us regain what 'rights'[sic] they have allready bargained away secretly w/o anyones participation.......?


the same group of lawyers that are helping the dispensaries exercise their rights ....the ones we dont have-


the group that <secretely> negotiated with the legs on a closed door secret session that was about patients rights >>AND distribution....?


i saw they need 7500$ just to START the case.......!!!



its gonna take hundreds of thousands for the bloodsuckers....to let us have the 'right' to have brownies......



.....and you think this carruthers guy got fucked cuz he was driving around with brownies
....scales
....vacuum sealers
and other incriminating shit making it obvious he was trying to sell brownies to dispensaries....?.... -wtf?

i think this case is an opportunity for them to help get more regulatory oversight formedibles....since the coa has dictated the terms 'useable'
marijuana....now they will define the regulated version imo-

i absolutely am on board as far as the principle of the whole thing.....


i just think the ways to the means they have left us is unacceptable --PERIOD


no one should go to jail for having brownies tho.......PERIOD!!


when we supposedly have a law[sic] where we are allowed to use medical marijuana to relieve our illness or afflictions for medical use-



but now they are gonna tell(sell) us rights-




how when where and for how much($$$)we have the right to use mmj


one of these brainiac lawyers should have wrote an amicus brief ozz--imho

...that would be too cheap for them tho

--but i see they want to "open" up the act and change the law

do you think it will be to the average persons benefit ?
--or more boxing in of our rights and access?

why no 'pro-bono' work on this high visiblity case also?
--busted for brownies?? omfg!!!

cuz it would take a lot of hrs re-negotiating what they allready have designed for us-
the dialectic they have created

they aint gonna do it for free and it will cost them a lot to reverse what they bargained for and give us 'sum' rights back-


it has been published across the country.....
would sure boost a lawyers firm-



i'll tell you why no pro bono-



the same lawyers here have hundreds of cases going allready with mmj infractions and they dont need the high visibility exposure that would help them expand their firms and captiol influx

or waste hundreds of hrs on a case they know probability of the outcome-

they got millions allready on the table-

why would any of them help for free--??
more $ more $ more$



i dont think carruthers has a chance in hell except for a plea-




mayb 'they will' take it all the way.....
and looks like they are lined up to go for it-

open the act and change the law-

the whole thing is a fucking joke tho at our expense
and we have to pay them for it too-



what happened to our original law tho ozz?

they keep narrowing and restricting the language into smaller and smaller lattitudes for pts/cgsand their rights

i see this as another attempt and opportunity for them to fuck us more-

not give us more rights since the whole focus lately is more and more on regulations and oversight of us and our right to access

an amicus brief would seem to be the solution but i see they want to open the act and change the language.....

joe was right tho for the most part
.....they got him dismissed tho and all the momentum that went with him---nice job guys!

--the lawyers here took what was valuable in it(our rights)
and sold us out

not protected any one-

i dont trust them at all.....we should have had mass protests of the shit they pulled on us-

but no leave it to the lawyers-
you trust lawyers?
whos benefit do they always focus on with regard to mmj?

i hate to tell yu again but they have all been pulling us around by our short hairs on rollerskates


pfffffft!!!




fuckers!




gud luk carruthers.....

let this be a lesson tho .....



dont get caught driving around trying to sell brownies ....or anything else mmj related-

...and dont have scales and vaccuum sealers in your car with your brownies your trying to sell


or your gonna pay thru the nose for those brownies-
and beg us to help you


anyway gud luk!



see folks and yu guys are worried about converting flowers--wow!

it will all be over and not ambiguous soon-




--read discaimer-- peace

 

[buckaroo bonzai]

[h=1]

&#8220;I just think that your best bet really is to go in and change the language of the Act and get past it.&#8221;
--Chris Lindsey--


On Michigan, Marijuana, Montana And Medibles: MPP&#8217;s Chris Lindsey Explains &#8216;Carruthers&#8217;[/h]Legislative analyst and attorney Chris Lindsey discusses the Court of Appeals decision in Carruthers regarding concentrates and medibles- and how this whole scenario has been played out before
FLINT- Michigan&#8217;s medical marijuana community is still adjusting to the Court of Appeals ruling that removes primary protections for medical marijuana patients for most brownies, oils, creams and pills made from cannabis.
According to the Marijuana Policy Project&#8217;s (MPP) Chris Lindsey, those adjustments may be more permanent than temporary.
In the case of People v Carruthers, the appellate court found that commonly-used extracts and foodstuffs made from marijuana are technically classified as &#8216;marijuana&#8217;- not &#8216;usable marijuana&#8217;, a category of cannabis that enjoys protections under the Michigan Medical Marihuana Act&#8217;s (MMA) Section 4 primary defense scheme. Patients caught with the disputed compounds and foods will still have a post-arrest Affirmative Defense under Section 8 of the MMA- but that is only applicable after the patient has been charged with a crime, their medicine has been confiscated and their mugshot has been taken.
During an interview on The Planet Green Trees Internet radio show, Lindsey described the Court of Appeals decision as part of a national trend targeting states where marijuana extracts are not specifically defined as usable.
&#8220;The problem is that the definition of usable marijuana is much narrower than the definition of marijuana,&#8221; Lindsey explained, &#8220;and while that seems kinda silly to be throwing those terms around and act like they are different, it is a big deal and that&#8217;s where the appellate court spent a lot of time in it&#8217;s analysis.
&#8220;I watched Montana&#8217;s Supreme Court go through the same process and Arizona&#8217;s Agency just went through it. This is a trend that&#8217;s happening in other locations.&#8221;
According to the appellate court, Earl Carruthers mixed marijuana and butter together, strained the mixture and used the butter to create brownies. Those brownies are not &#8216;usable&#8217; because the liquid butter contained extracts of the marijuana plant. If Carruthers had put the butter and marijuana and brownie mix all together at the same time, the resulting brownie would be usable because it was created with dried cannabis, not an extracted form.
&#8220;Within the &#8216;usable marijuana&#8217; definition it&#8217;s flowers, it&#8217;s leaves. When you talk about &#8216;marijuana&#8217; in the health code, or the criminal codes of other states, it&#8217;s the entire plant living or not, the extractions from that plant&#8230;&#8221; said Lindsey.
Where the extracts are listed in the definitions is the key to the legality issue. &#8221;The appellate court in Michigan, the Supreme Court in Montana and the Agency in Arizona look at these two definitions and they say: usable marijuana doesn&#8217;t talk about resins, I don&#8217;t see anything about extractions but I look at this definition (of marijuana)&#8230; sure as hell, there it is.&#8221;
When looking for a solution to the Carruthers conundrum Lindsey draws from his own experiences in Montana. &#8220;Where do we go from here?&#8221; he asks. &#8220;There are two approaches- there is change the law, there is litigate it and get case law back in line.&#8221;
Planet Green Trees host and attorney Michael Komorn announced that he and fellow attorneys Neil Rockind and Stuart Friedman had just that very day petitioned to the Supreme Court to appeal the Carruthers case. A link to their petition can be found here.
Lindsey related this appellate effort to an experience from Montana related to their medical marijuana law, passed in 2004. &#8220;It was the same sort of thing where we were arguing on, look at this definition here, look at this other definition over here, think of what the spirit of the intent of the voters was, and their answer on that was, we can&#8217;t take a poll of the voters back in 2004, we have to look at the law they adopted and assume that that the way it is written is the way they wanted&#8230;&#8221;
Komorn agreed that the appellate option would be difficult. &#8220;The issue may be that, those arguments to the supreme court that the voters did not intend for the only methods of ingestion to be Justices to be smoking or vaporizing- what about these kids? What about the kids whose parents are now subject to arrest because they possess a brownie? And (the Supreme Court) may say, that&#8217;s not our problem, go to the legislature,&#8221; he said.
Lindsey analyzed the appeal process&#8217;s chance of success, saying &#8220;to fix it at the Supreme Court level which is going to require some fancy footwork and going back to the intent of the voters&#8230; I am skeptical; I respect the work that you are doing but&#8230; that is a difficult row to hoe.&#8221;
The second option Lindsey outlined held greater promise for the MPP spokesman. &#8220;The other way is change the law, and that&#8217;s where it needs to be. It&#8217;s not a hard sell. Edibles are preferred by physicians. They are better in many respects for a lot of patients&#8230; To say in Michigan that the only way you can use your medicine is to smoke it or vape it is ridiculous,&#8221; he summarized.
&#8220;I just think that your best bet really is to go in and change the language of the Act and get past it.&#8221;
How did Montana&#8217;s Supreme Court decide the issue? &#8220;In 2012 we had a string of four cases come down (from the Supreme Court), and they were all of them bad,&#8221; Lindsey said. &#8220;One of them was this issue of cannabis oil. Our Supreme Court came up with the exact same issue, really on the same reasoning as the appellate court in Michigan- that the definition of usable marijuana and marijuana in the criminal code, these two things are not the same thing and we don&#8217;t see anything that talks about extracts (in the definition of usable marijuana).&#8221;
Although Lindsey&#8217;s interview went for nearly an hour there were more topics of discussion than time allowed for. The PGT staff has promised to feature Lindsey in another upcoming interview segment.




[h=1]hmmm i wonder how they will change the language since we allready voted to allow its use?
--more regulation would be my bet--
i thought it was supposed to be interpretted in the 'plain language' as the electorate intended...??[/h]
[h=1]im guessing they will allow medibles only if they are tightly regulated for dosage pkging tested and corporate produced......nice backdoor endrun by attorneys-jm2c[/h]
arent these the attorneys that worked with MPP originally to get us where were at?--
ok so we will get a medibles clause...(extracts too?) but with what kind of regulation?

 

[ozzrokk]

Thank you Jester420 you rock........

Buckaroo............. I have read your writings for many years and I also know where your heart is and I like it.............. By the way Joe is right about me.............

I did not want a rant in this thread but I will accept it as I know your intentions are good. But I do not want to clutter this thread with it. I am sure you understand. I may not agree with everything you say but do agree with some of what you are saying. I have been around for a number of years now and I have seen alot right along side of you my friend. I respect your opiniion. You may be right I may speak on deaf ears but I have to try....... I am sure you can also understand that. Any help that comes of it is help much needed.

i do not do it for the sake of Carruthers I do it for the sake of all of us. Fact is he could go back and take his section 8 and probably (if the court would honor it) be done with it. And then noone would have section 4 card protections for extracts not even the cancer patients and I cannot except that.

 

[ozzrokk]

Bless you and thank you Buckaroo........... For all that you do.............

Much respect to you brightheart

 

[ozzrokk]

Please dont forget that there is a bake sale tomorrow. Please make it if you can and donate to a good cause.

Sunday September 15, 2013...... 4PM to7PM.......23440 Woodward Ave. Ferndale, Mi 48220

 

[buckaroo bonzai]

Please dont forget that there is a bake sale tomorrow. Please make it if you can and donate to a good cause.

Sunday September 15, 2013...... 4PM to7PM.......23440 Woodward Ave. Ferndale, Mi 48220

......60$ 'donated'-

 

[ozzrokk]

Thanx brother....... Send em on over.......

 

[ozzrokk]

Thank you everyone that made it to the bake sale and those donating and sending good vibes.

 

[ozzrokk]

A little bump for the cause.......

 

[GregS]

How are the numbers looking ozz?

 

[ozzrokk]

I havent heard an update in some time........... Bake sale I dont think was very good but the parties involved are seeing the possative in it so thats a good thing. My understanding is that there were only three donors for it and only one was a medical marijuana patient the other 2 were close friends of earl......... Very very very surprising. I have a feeling that I know who the one medical marijuana patient was.......... Thank you.......

But ever onward. It will get there........ It has to.........

And thanks Greg for all you have done for this cause.......

 

[ozzrokk]

I guess the total now is $1755 brought in so far.............. I guess sick people are worth something afterall........ Not alot or enough but something eh...........

Ever onward........ Please continue to pass the word on and thank you.......

 

[Rrog]

Sorry I was late to the party. Hopefully that registers. I used the email in your sig. Thanks for being on the front line.

 

[ozzrokk]

Your a good soul......... Happy to be along side you Rrog.......

 

[Rrog]

I can't believe that RSO of all things is at the heart of this. Do I have that right? It's the perfect item to have in this situation, maybe. Most hype. Most Americans would identify with the oil via the CNN Gupta show. Hardest concentrate to demonize, maybe. I dunno.

 

[ozzrokk]

I can't believe that RSO of all things is at the heart of this. Do I have that right? It's the perfect item to have in this situation, maybe. Most hype. Most Americans would identify with the oil via the CNN Gupta show. Hardest concentrate to demonize, maybe. I dunno.

Yep any concentrate like rso among others...... Anything that does not have the actual pieces of bud or leaf in it. They think the thc is not part of the flowers and leaves I guess........

 

[ozzrokk]

Please keep getting the word out.

 

[jonnynobody]

Please keep getting the word out.

The appeals court ruling will be overturned by the supreme court. Appeals has been playing hard politics with medical marijuana from the beginning, and once the SC gets the case, it will inevitably be overturned.

Not that I have to explain this to any of y'all but last time I checked, resin glands were part of the marijuana plant. Fuck these activist politician judges in their fucking asshole!

Can't wait to see if marijuana recreational legalization goes up for a vote in 2016...me thinks we might have a chance. God knows money grubbing republicans love the idea of added tax revenue....but I guess they're already making great money through the courts as it is...why ruin a cash cow? Time shall tell. Public opinion is changing so rapidly on marijuana - I don't know how much longer they can keep up the lie no matter how profitable it may be...the people won't stand for it any longer at some point. That point is growing near.

 

[ozzrokk]

Agreed.........Where in the hell do they think the thc comes from?

The end is getting ever nearer.........

 

[TheMan13]

Can't wait to see if marijuana recreational legalization goes up for a vote in 2016...me thinks we might have a chance. God knows money grubbing republicans love the idea of added tax revenue....but I guess they're already making great money through the courts as it is...why ruin a cash cow? Time shall tell. Public opinion is changing so rapidly on marijuana - I don't know how much longer they can keep up the lie no matter how profitable it may be...the people won't stand for it any longer at some point. That point is growing near.

Agreed on the sentiment, although not on the statement of political facts. The Democrats are clearly the "tax and spend party" that actually supports the government control you criticize here. Just take a look to the political ideology of powerful internal Democratic political groups like the trial lawyers association and the damages they have forced upon our society for profit under the guise of "services". We must stop taking in these political talking points/story lines as fact and open our eyes to the reality and clear history. The Democrats hate the likes of Libertarian Republicans like Ron Paul because they simply speak the truth and expose the machine for what it is. The Democrats (Holder & Obama) were pro MJ on the 2008 campaign trail, but now in power for five years and with nearly half of the states in our union having MJ laws on their books, they are somehow cool with MJ remaining on their Class I Narcotics and treated as such. This absurd disconnect between statements and actions needs accountability, not blind support of BS political parties and their rhetoric of the day.