Carruthers Appeal to the Supreme Court

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“I just think that your best bet really is to go in and change the language of the Act and get past it.”
--Chris Lindsey--


On Michigan, Marijuana, Montana And Medibles: MPP’s Chris Lindsey Explains ‘Carruthers’[/h]Legislative analyst and attorney Chris Lindsey discusses the Court of Appeals decision in Carruthers regarding concentrates and medibles- and how this whole scenario has been played out before
FLINT- Michigan’s medical marijuana community is still adjusting to the Court of Appeals ruling that removes primary protections for medical marijuana patients for most brownies, oils, creams and pills made from cannabis.
According to the Marijuana Policy Project’s (MPP) Chris Lindsey, those adjustments may be more permanent than temporary.
In the case of People v Carruthers, the appellate court found that commonly-used extracts and foodstuffs made from marijuana are technically classified as ‘marijuana’- not ‘usable marijuana’, a category of cannabis that enjoys protections under the Michigan Medical Marihuana Act’s (MMA) Section 4 primary defense scheme. Patients caught with the disputed compounds and foods will still have a post-arrest Affirmative Defense under Section 8 of the MMA- but that is only applicable after the patient has been charged with a crime, their medicine has been confiscated and their mugshot has been taken.
During an interview on The Planet Green Trees Internet radio show, Lindsey described the Court of Appeals decision as part of a national trend targeting states where marijuana extracts are not specifically defined as usable.
“The problem is that the definition of usable marijuana is much narrower than the definition of marijuana,” Lindsey explained, “and while that seems kinda silly to be throwing those terms around and act like they are different, it is a big deal and that’s where the appellate court spent a lot of time in it’s analysis.
“I watched Montana’s Supreme Court go through the same process and Arizona’s Agency just went through it. This is a trend that’s happening in other locations.”
According to the appellate court, Earl Carruthers mixed marijuana and butter together, strained the mixture and used the butter to create brownies. Those brownies are not ‘usable’ because the liquid butter contained extracts of the marijuana plant. If Carruthers had put the butter and marijuana and brownie mix all together at the same time, the resulting brownie would be usable because it was created with dried cannabis, not an extracted form.
“Within the ‘usable marijuana’ definition it’s flowers, it’s leaves. When you talk about ‘marijuana’ in the health code, or the criminal codes of other states, it’s the entire plant living or not, the extractions from that plant…” said Lindsey.
Where the extracts are listed in the definitions is the key to the legality issue. ”The appellate court in Michigan, the Supreme Court in Montana and the Agency in Arizona look at these two definitions and they say: usable marijuana doesn’t talk about resins, I don’t see anything about extractions but I look at this definition (of marijuana)… sure as hell, there it is.”
When looking for a solution to the Carruthers conundrum Lindsey draws from his own experiences in Montana. “Where do we go from here?” he asks. “There are two approaches- there is change the law, there is litigate it and get case law back in line.”
Planet Green Trees host and attorney Michael Komorn announced that he and fellow attorneys Neil Rockind and Stuart Friedman had just that very day petitioned to the Supreme Court to appeal the Carruthers case. A link to their petition can be found here.
Lindsey related this appellate effort to an experience from Montana related to their medical marijuana law, passed in 2004. “It was the same sort of thing where we were arguing on, look at this definition here, look at this other definition over here, think of what the spirit of the intent of the voters was, and their answer on that was, we can’t take a poll of the voters back in 2004, we have to look at the law they adopted and assume that that the way it is written is the way they wanted…”
Komorn agreed that the appellate option would be difficult. “The issue may be that, those arguments to the supreme court that the voters did not intend for the only methods of ingestion to be Justices to be smoking or vaporizing- what about these kids? What about the kids whose parents are now subject to arrest because they possess a brownie? And (the Supreme Court) may say, that’s not our problem, go to the legislature,” he said.
Lindsey analyzed the appeal process’s chance of success, saying “to fix it at the Supreme Court level which is going to require some fancy footwork and going back to the intent of the voters… I am skeptical; I respect the work that you are doing but… that is a difficult row to hoe.”
The second option Lindsey outlined held greater promise for the MPP spokesman. “The other way is change the law, and that’s where it needs to be. It’s not a hard sell. Edibles are preferred by physicians. They are better in many respects for a lot of patients… To say in Michigan that the only way you can use your medicine is to smoke it or vape it is ridiculous,” he summarized.
“I just think that your best bet really is to go in and change the language of the Act and get past it.”
How did Montana’s Supreme Court decide the issue? “In 2012 we had a string of four cases come down (from the Supreme Court), and they were all of them bad,” Lindsey said. “One of them was this issue of cannabis oil. Our Supreme Court came up with the exact same issue, really on the same reasoning as the appellate court in Michigan- that the definition of usable marijuana and marijuana in the criminal code, these two things are not the same thing and we don’t see anything that talks about extracts (in the definition of usable marijuana).”
Although Lindsey’s interview went for nearly an hour there were more topics of discussion than time allowed for. The PGT staff has promised to feature Lindsey in another upcoming interview segment.




[h=1]hmmm i wonder how they will change the language since we allready voted to allow its use?
--more regulation would be my bet--
i thought it was supposed to be interpretted in the 'plain language' as the electorate intended...??[/h]
[h=1]im guessing they will allow medibles only if they are tightly regulated for dosage pkging tested and corporate produced......nice backdoor endrun by attorneys-jm2c[/h]
arent these the attorneys that worked with MPP originally to get us where were at?--
ok so we will get a medibles clause...(extracts too?) but with what kind of regulation?

Thank you Jester420 you rock........

Buckaroo............. I have read your writings for many years and I also know where your heart is and I like it.............. By the way Joe is right about me.............

I did not want a rant in this thread but I will accept it as I know your intentions are good. But I do not want to clutter this thread with it. I am sure you understand. I may not agree with everything you say but do agree with some of what you are saying. I have been around for a number of years now and I have seen alot right along side of you my friend. I respect your opiniion. You may be right I may speak on deaf ears but I have to try....... I am sure you can also understand that. Any help that comes of it is help much needed.

i do not do it for the sake of Carruthers I do it for the sake of all of us. Fact is he could go back and take his section 8 and probably (if the court would honor it) be done with it. And then noone would have section 4 card protections for extracts not even the cancer patients and I cannot except that.

Bless you and thank you Buckaroo........... For all that you do.............

Much respect to you brightheart

Please dont forget that there is a bake sale tomorrow. Please make it if you can and donate to a good cause.

Sunday September 15, 2013...... 4PM to7PM.......23440 Woodward Ave. Ferndale, Mi 48220

ozzrokk said:

Please dont forget that there is a bake sale tomorrow. Please make it if you can and donate to a good cause.

Sunday September 15, 2013...... 4PM to7PM.......23440 Woodward Ave. Ferndale, Mi 48220

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......60$ 'donated'-

Thanx brother....... Send em on over.......

Thank you everyone that made it to the bake sale and those donating and sending good vibes.

A little bump for the cause.......

How are the numbers looking ozz?

I havent heard an update in some time........... Bake sale I dont think was very good but the parties involved are seeing the possative in it so thats a good thing. My understanding is that there were only three donors for it and only one was a medical marijuana patient the other 2 were close friends of earl......... Very very very surprising. I have a feeling that I know who the one medical marijuana patient was.......... Thank you.......

But ever onward. It will get there........ It has to.........

And thanks Greg for all you have done for this cause.......

I guess the total now is $1755 brought in so far.............. I guess sick people are worth something afterall........ Not alot or enough but something eh...........

Ever onward........ Please continue to pass the word on and thank you.......

Sorry I was late to the party. Hopefully that registers. I used the email in your sig. Thanks for being on the front line.

Your a good soul......... Happy to be along side you Rrog.......

I can't believe that RSO of all things is at the heart of this. Do I have that right? It's the perfect item to have in this situation, maybe. Most hype. Most Americans would identify with the oil via the CNN Gupta show. Hardest concentrate to demonize, maybe. I dunno.

Rrog said:

I can't believe that RSO of all things is at the heart of this. Do I have that right? It's the perfect item to have in this situation, maybe. Most hype. Most Americans would identify with the oil via the CNN Gupta show. Hardest concentrate to demonize, maybe. I dunno.

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Yep any concentrate like rso among others...... Anything that does not have the actual pieces of bud or leaf in it. They think the thc is not part of the flowers and leaves I guess........

Please keep getting the word out.

ozzrokk said:

Please keep getting the word out.

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The appeals court ruling will be overturned by the supreme court. Appeals has been playing hard politics with medical marijuana from the beginning, and once the SC gets the case, it will inevitably be overturned.

Not that I have to explain this to any of y'all but last time I checked, resin glands were part of the marijuana plant. Fuck these activist politician judges in their fucking asshole!

Can't wait to see if marijuana recreational legalization goes up for a vote in 2016...me thinks we might have a chance. God knows money grubbing republicans love the idea of added tax revenue....but I guess they're already making great money through the courts as it is...why ruin a cash cow? Time shall tell. Public opinion is changing so rapidly on marijuana - I don't know how much longer they can keep up the lie no matter how profitable it may be...the people won't stand for it any longer at some point. That point is growing near.

Agreed.........Where in the hell do they think the thc comes from?

The end is getting ever nearer.........

jonnynobody said:

Can't wait to see if marijuana recreational legalization goes up for a vote in 2016...me thinks we might have a chance. God knows money grubbing republicans love the idea of added tax revenue....but I guess they're already making great money through the courts as it is...why ruin a cash cow? Time shall tell. Public opinion is changing so rapidly on marijuana - I don't know how much longer they can keep up the lie no matter how profitable it may be...the people won't stand for it any longer at some point. That point is growing near.

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Agreed on the sentiment, although not on the statement of political facts. The Democrats are clearly the "tax and spend party" that actually supports the government control you criticize here. Just take a look to the political ideology of powerful internal Democratic political groups like the trial lawyers association and the damages they have forced upon our society for profit under the guise of "services". We must stop taking in these political talking points/story lines as fact and open our eyes to the reality and clear history. The Democrats hate the likes of Libertarian Republicans like Ron Paul because they simply speak the truth and expose the machine for what it is. The Democrats (Holder & Obama) were pro MJ on the 2008 campaign trail, but now in power for five years and with nearly half of the states in our union having MJ laws on their books, they are somehow cool with MJ remaining on their Class I Narcotics and treated as such. This absurd disconnect between statements and actions needs accountability, not blind support of BS political parties and their rhetoric of the day.