Measuring plant lighting

[chazbolin]

It mentions the XR tube is what kicks on during the 'wake-up' and 'go to sleep' times. I could not find what light the XR emits other than red so I am not sure if this is good or bad what to make of it but anything other than deep red, (730nm-750nm?), would not trigger sleep time right? Anyway, that's what I found. Let me know what you think.

My guess is that the term XR may be a reference to Extreme Red? Sounds like XR might be a coined term. The site is a little light on how they're actually doing this with but upon consideration I don't know why you would want to go to all the trouble of designing controls that produce an exclusive Far Red at sunrise as I know of no science that would support the benefits.

I agree and like the concept of the Inda-gro Pontoon but at over $700 USD it's just a bit pricey for an LED addon, at least for me. No disrespect for what they have done with their lighting. From what I have seen, induction lighting has come a very long way from its beginnings and the PAR, efficiency and lifespan seem to be way up there but pricewise, I can see a lot of DIYer's hanging LED light tubes on the sides for a fraction of the price. Just saying.

With the price on the Pontoon being $745.00 I would have to agree it is not meant for everyone or for every garden. Building your own system is certainly an option but the Pontoons have been designed to optimize optic distribution of the 660/730nm spectrums using the least amount of energy and to run on batteries at lights out. They cover a larger area for a relatively low wattage by virtue of their accessorizing the length and width of the Pro-420 light. They are also all hand built. On a cash crop adding them to your flowering room typically mean an increased yield that represents an ROI realized within the first crop.

Based on without vs with the pontoon on their system, the pontoon seems to add about 12.3 radiant watts of power, or 66µmols. That's not counting the 730nm after lights out. µmols/watt are pretty good for the pontoon.

You're correct on the Pontoon values. The other feature that is often ignored when discussing Pontoon metrics such as umols/watts is the contribution of the 730nm diodes triggering Pfr @ lights out. Count on Tags to catch that in his valuations.

 

[JohnNeedsMeds]

My guess is that the term XR may be a reference to Extreme Red? Sounds like XR might be a coined term. The site is a little light on how they're actually doing this with but upon consideration I don't know why you would want to go to all the trouble of designing controls that produce an exclusive Far Red at sunrise as I know of no science that would support the benefits.

Indeed. The XR from what I gathered stands for Extra Red. I combed the site but no mention is made of what 'red' is being used. To me, if it is ~730nm then it is just silly since that is the 'sleep' wavelength but if it is a lower red, say in the lower 600nm's, do you think that will have any affect as far as waking a plant up? In my limited understanding it would not increase the Pfr to Pr transition whatsoever. Thoughts?

With the price on the Pontoon being $745.00 I would have to agree it is not meant for everyone or for every garden. Building your own system is certainly an option but the Pontoons have been designed to optimize optic distribution of the 660/730nm spectrums using the least amount of energy and to run on batteries at lights out. They cover a larger area for a relatively low wattage by virtue of their accessorizing the length and width of the Pro-420 light. They are also all hand built. On a cash crop adding them to your flowering room typically mean an increased yield that represents an ROI realized within the first crop.

If I had the money to spend on the pontoon I would Chaz. I see the science behind what has been done and agree with its benefits. Perhaps after a successful grow or three the price will look much more appealing.

You're correct on the Pontoon values. The other feature that is often ignored when discussing Pontoon metrics such as umols/watts is the contribution of the 730nm diodes triggering Pfr @ lights out. Count on Tags to catch that in his valuations.

hehe Go Tags!

Thanks for the response Chaz!

 

[chazbolin]

but if it is a lower red, say in the lower 600nm's, do you think that will have any affect as far as waking a plant up? In my limited understanding it would not increase the Pfr to Pr transition whatsoever. Thoughts?

L Michael Roberts is making us guess here but as long as we're continuing on this exercise I would agree with you that the value of Red-Far Red at wake up would not be of any value since the plants would already by a Pfr state during the dark cycle. There is no need to induce Pfr. The science supports lights out Pfr not lights on. As to a lower 600nm value, exclusively, at lights on it I would have to see empirical evidence that this approach represented a qualified benefit and be worth the expense of tailoring diodes/EFDL to work in a concert of lights on - operational - lights off. If nothing else this represents my best SWAG analysis based on the limited information before us.

 

[JohnNeedsMeds]

Exactly. Another thought I had was if the XR is in the lower 600nm range then it would be identical to the red from the main induction lamp so just a waste of extra wattage that is not needed. Indeed we need clear evidence that what they are claiming actually serves a purpose other than pulling more money out of our pockets by using catchy phrases that in the end only equates to higher initial cost and extra energy consumption. wow *jumps down off the soapbox* Anyway, thanks Chaz.

 

[JohnNeedsMeds]

Chaz I had another thought if you would be kind enough to entertain it. Ok, the way I understand it the plant needs its long sleep time to transform Pfr back to Pr. When we hit the plant with ~730nm it rapidly turns the Pfr back to Pr. So, what if we turn on the ~730nm light for say 2 hours at lights off then turn main lights back on. Will that be enough to trick the plant into thinking it has slept all night or are there other things the plant needs a longer dark period for?

 

[captainmorgan]

There's a way to so called trick a plant to stay in veg with less light to save energy. 12 on 5.5 off 1.5 on and 5 off. I think it's not so much the plant thinks it's getting more light but without the 730 nm trigger the plant thinks it's getting less dark.

 

[JohnNeedsMeds]

There's a way to so called trick a plant to stay in veg with less light to save energy. 12 on 5.5 off 1.5 on and 5 off. I think it's not so much the plant thinks it's getting more light but without the 730 nm trigger the plant thinks it's getting less dark.

What I was thinking was along the lines of using the ~730nm at lights off during flowering to rush the Pfr to Pr so that the lights can be turned back on sooner which will give the plant more grow time and faster finishing. Thanks CM.

 

[chazbolin]

When using the Pontoons I've not personally experimented with a controlled side by side with anything other than an extended photoperiod. The 730's initiate Pfr allowing me to run what I've found has boosted bud densities on 13/11 and 14/10 schedules. I will flip to flower on a 12/12 and increase the lights on by 15 min integrals until I reach the extended on period but I've only been doing that because I get to see pistils & calyx's on the flip sooner. I wouldn't mind trying an interrupted night cycle but I would still want to maintain a control tent that ran a 14/10 and see how it compared perhaps to a 12 on - 6 off - 1.5 on - 4.5 off cycle. I'd be interested in seeing how the plants react, good, bad or indifferent, to that schedule.

 

[JohnNeedsMeds]

When using the Pontoons I've not personally experimented with a controlled side by side with anything other than an extended photoperiod. The 730's initiate Pfr allowing me to run what I've found has boosted bud densities on 13/11 and 14/10 schedules. I will flip to flower on a 12/12 and increase the lights on by 15 min integrals until I reach the extended on period but I've only been doing that because I get to see pistils & calyx's on the flip sooner. I wouldn't mind trying an interrupted night cycle but I would still want to maintain a control tent that ran a 14/10 and see how it compared perhaps to a 12 on - 6 off - 1.5 on - 4.5 off cycle. I'd be interested in seeing how the plants react, good, bad or indifferent, to that schedule.

Thank you for the response Chaz! Perhaps I think about things too much. lol Ok I think I understand now. When using the ~730nm trigger Pfr is rapidly converted so not much more than that, if any, is helpful and since Pfr is not generated during the sleep cycle there is no use trying to trigger again. It makes sense now. No need to experiment unless you see any value in it. Sorry, it just took this to trigger the bulb in my head. Thanks again!

 

[JohnNeedsMeds]

I was looking at different HPS lights and came across the new Gavita 1000w Pro DE LE ballast, lamp and reflector combo. I started reading the posts on the site and came across the following from a guy who seemed to be answering most of the questions.

<<
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Every HPS lamp primarily radiates in a radial shape, not round.[/FONT] [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Remember uniformity and light levels are important, but in a small tent you do not have a lot of choices. More small lamps always provide a much better uniformity than fewer big lamps. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]In these cases the highest irradiance is never straight under the lamp. [/FONT]
>>

Can anyone explain that to me please? I thought radial was round and I also thought the hottest spot under a lamp IS under the lamp! LOL I need a vacation.

 

[chazbolin]

With the variety of Spectral Distribution Graphs floating around I suggested an update to the V-C-F paper that discussed what the differences are in these graphs and what one might interpolate from the data points. While much of it will likely go over a beginners head the conclusions were meant to try and tie it up for them. For those of you with extensive SDG experience I believe you will find points of interest. The update may found on the end of this document.

http://www.inda-gro.com/pdf/MeasuringPlantLight.pdf