UncleBuck
Well-Known Member
hey crybaby,
the PPACA was ruled to be constitutional.
do you need some cornflakes to sop up the tears?
Why does my goverment force me to
- Thread starter ChesusRice
- Start date
the PPACA was ruled to be constitutional.
do you need some cornflakes to sop up the tears?
grimreefer24601
Well-Known Member
This all come down to the ACA.
It's riddled with problems, but let me just address some of the main few.
First, insurance does not equal care. A bronze plan cover 50% of the medical cost. The rest goes to the insured. I've looked recently. 36 YO non "cigarette" smoker, $115 a month, $5000 deductible, %50 coinsurance. Last time I went to a doctor I broke my wrist in eight places. Getting are on my own cost me $2800. Under Obamacare, it would have still cost "me" $2800, since that was less's than my deductible and coinsurance. Worse yet was that they were trying to put me in a $28,000 room. No surgery, the room was $28,000. So how does that work under Obamacare? If I'd been insured, you bet they'd have put me up in one of their rooms. Instead, I found an independent clinic. So even with the ACA $28,000 room + surgery, would have cost me, on the bronze plan $14,000. Instead I paid $2800.
Second, if existing conditions aren't excluded, why shouldn't I pay the fine, until I need treatment. If I get cancer, the insurance companies can't refuse me, so why pay a higher rate than the fine, if I can just pay the fine, and enroll when I need to? Unless the fine is higher than the premium, I'd be a fool to buy insurance especially now.
Really, this is almost socialized medicine. I actually agree with socialized medicine. This however includes guaranteed profits for he middle men. The insurance companies.
If this plan really brought us to the level of other 1st world countries, I'd be behind it. All it guarantees is profits for insurance companies.
Here's an Idea. Let's start state clinic's that will treat anyone. Let's also allow private hospitals to do as they have been. It's a win win. The poor get free healthcare, if you want better you can pay for it. I won't complain about free healthcare. Most Canadians and Britons don't either. It's their wealthy that complain, and then rush off to a country whee they can pay for better service.
It's riddled with problems, but let me just address some of the main few.
First, insurance does not equal care. A bronze plan cover 50% of the medical cost. The rest goes to the insured. I've looked recently. 36 YO non "cigarette" smoker, $115 a month, $5000 deductible, %50 coinsurance. Last time I went to a doctor I broke my wrist in eight places. Getting are on my own cost me $2800. Under Obamacare, it would have still cost "me" $2800, since that was less's than my deductible and coinsurance. Worse yet was that they were trying to put me in a $28,000 room. No surgery, the room was $28,000. So how does that work under Obamacare? If I'd been insured, you bet they'd have put me up in one of their rooms. Instead, I found an independent clinic. So even with the ACA $28,000 room + surgery, would have cost me, on the bronze plan $14,000. Instead I paid $2800.
Second, if existing conditions aren't excluded, why shouldn't I pay the fine, until I need treatment. If I get cancer, the insurance companies can't refuse me, so why pay a higher rate than the fine, if I can just pay the fine, and enroll when I need to? Unless the fine is higher than the premium, I'd be a fool to buy insurance especially now.
Really, this is almost socialized medicine. I actually agree with socialized medicine. This however includes guaranteed profits for he middle men. The insurance companies.
If this plan really brought us to the level of other 1st world countries, I'd be behind it. All it guarantees is profits for insurance companies.
Here's an Idea. Let's start state clinic's that will treat anyone. Let's also allow private hospitals to do as they have been. It's a win win. The poor get free healthcare, if you want better you can pay for it. I won't complain about free healthcare. Most Canadians and Britons don't either. It's their wealthy that complain, and then rush off to a country whee they can pay for better service.
ChesusRice
Well-Known Member
Bronze Plans are designed so that insurance companies will pay 60% of covered healthcare expenses with the remaining 40% to be paid by consumers. The consumer’s expenses will be in the form of out-of-pocket fees over and above the cost of the plan’s monthly premium. Out-of-pocket expenses for individuals is expected to be capped at $6,350 annually starting in 2014.
http://www.healthpocket.com/individual-health-insurance/bronze-health-plans
Thats 2 mistakes in just the first paragraph and shows you dont know shit about Obamacare. There are also Bronze plans that have less out of pocket expensces
Irregardless of what bronze plan you choose your out of pocket expenses will never exceed 6350 dollars
Oh, so $6,350 out of pocket, plus the premiums paid, versus the $2,800 expense the original poster claimed. Are you supposed to be refuting said claim...?
ChesusRice
Well-Known Member
What is his out of pocket expenses without having insurance?
Since most people already had insurance, on average, the answer is less.
The cost of Obamacare, for each previously uninsured person it insured, is quite astounding.
squarepush3r
Well-Known Member
starting price*
I'm sure after a few years of good ol'e government know how that will go up!
ChesusRice
Well-Known Member
Health Plan Cost for New Yorkers Set to Fall 50%
By RONI CARYN RABIN and REED ABELSON
State insurance regulators say they have approved rates for 2014 that are at least 50 percent lower on average than those currently available in New York. Beginning in October, individuals in New York City who now pay $1,000 a month or more for coverage will be able to shop for health insurance for as little as $308 monthly. With federal subsidies, the cost will be even lower.
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/17/health/health-plan-cost-for-new-yorkers-set-to-fall-50.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0
Did you not bother to read the article, Chesus? Individuals planning to buy health insurance on their own.
Only 17,000 individuals in New York buy insurance on their own. The population of New York? Almost 20 million people.
ChesusRice
Well-Known Member
Congrats...
squarepush3r
Well-Known Member
lets do some logic, when does government make anything cheaper or better. Would be interested in hearing this!
You posted the article with an exceedingly misleading headline as proof of lower costs. Congrats to you, for weakening your own argument by not adequately scrutinizing your own sources.
ChesusRice
Well-Known Member
Well obviously in New York they have
ChesusRice
Well-Known Member
Hey tokeprep
before I put you on ignore
The main impetus of why only 17000 people in New york buy their own coverage is becuase Health insurance on the exchange costing 328 bucks a month was over a 1000 bucks before the exchanges
Being that you claim you are some kind of economics student (kinda doubting that now) maybe you would understand that.
From the same article
Potential customers – particularly those who are young and healthy – are
driven away by the price. Individual, single HMO plans in this market cost
$1,081 per month for Univera, $1,174 for BlueCross BlueShield, and $1,277 for
Independent Health, according to state data for July.
“For an individual looking for insurance, it is virtually impossible to find
affordable coverage, or to access it,” said Larry Zielinski, a former president
of Buffalo General Medical Center who teaches at the University at Buffalo
School of Management.
before I put you on ignore
The main impetus of why only 17000 people in New york buy their own coverage is becuase Health insurance on the exchange costing 328 bucks a month was over a 1000 bucks before the exchanges
Being that you claim you are some kind of economics student (kinda doubting that now) maybe you would understand that.
From the same article
Potential customers – particularly those who are young and healthy – are
driven away by the price. Individual, single HMO plans in this market cost
$1,081 per month for Univera, $1,174 for BlueCross BlueShield, and $1,277 for
Independent Health, according to state data for July.
“For an individual looking for insurance, it is virtually impossible to find
affordable coverage, or to access it,” said Larry Zielinski, a former president
of Buffalo General Medical Center who teaches at the University at Buffalo
School of Management.
Have you still not bothered to read? Your article refers to rates for just 12.5% of New York's population. It says nothing about rates for the other 87.5% of New York's population.
And let's focus on that: your article focuses on RATES. It says nothing about how many people are actually going to take advantage of them.
You're touting a 50% decrease in premium prices for 12.5% of population at the same time that the premium for an average family of four in this country has gone up $4,000 since Obamacare was passed--an increase of more than 20%. Presumably the remaining 87.5% of New York's population that your article excluded is on the other side of this equation, paying substantially more for insurance than they were, and not the 50% less that you're touting here.
...why don't you just put me on ignore? I don't care, I'll continue to refute your posts regardless.
That's entirely beside the point. I'm only pointing out how flawed the claim of your article was, since it refers to the outcome for 12.5% of New York's population while entirely ignoring the outcome for the remaining 87.5% of the population. What does that mean? The article is meaningless bullshit that you never should have referenced as evidence for your claim.
ChesusRice
Well-Known Member
tokeprep
Veteran Smoker
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[HR][/HR]10-13-2013, 04:53 AM
tokeprep
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[HR][/HR]10-13-2013, 04:53 AM
tokeprep
Veteran Smoker
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can you accept "yes we can"?..
ChesusRice
Well-Known Member
Romney says he is proud of the healthcare plan he masterminded for Massachusetts. It is a laudable plan that blends the Republican ideal of personal responsibility with the Democratic goal of universal healthcare.
Here’s a crash course in the 2006 Health Reform Statute. Every person is required to buy health insurance. Young, healthy people--who ordinarily wouldn’t buy health insurance--have to get it, even if they feel like they don’t need it. This inclusiveness lowers the premiums and allows state funds that were earmarked for medical care for the uninsured to be used to provide insurance for the populace. Medicaid still covers the indigent.Critics say this isn’t fair to require everyone to buy health insurance. But it’s as equitable as requiring all drivers to buy automobile insurance. Everybody pays for the uninsured anyway, whether it’s in higher auto insurance premiums or higher hospital bills. Health insurance as a civic duty is a noble concept, but one that just may work.
-Mitt Romney
Here’s a crash course in the 2006 Health Reform Statute. Every person is required to buy health insurance. Young, healthy people--who ordinarily wouldn’t buy health insurance--have to get it, even if they feel like they don’t need it. This inclusiveness lowers the premiums and allows state funds that were earmarked for medical care for the uninsured to be used to provide insurance for the populace. Medicaid still covers the indigent.Critics say this isn’t fair to require everyone to buy health insurance. But it’s as equitable as requiring all drivers to buy automobile insurance. Everybody pays for the uninsured anyway, whether it’s in higher auto insurance premiums or higher hospital bills. Health insurance as a civic duty is a noble concept, but one that just may work.
-Mitt Romney
is anyone on this thread financially prepared for a devastating illness?..a few hundred thousand laying around you're not using right now?..i didn't think so..and just remember, you know how you feel after you fly or go out in flu season and germs are everywhere people don't take precautions..get you sick..you should..YOU are those people..no consideration for others who care about their health and preventative.