DWC Root Slime Cure aka How to Breed Beneficial Microbes

[JohnnySocko]

just a passing thought, so plz refrain from the usual dickhead level flames (yeah I know its a lot to ask in a forum with a lot of smart ass & high people) but I wonder if any of the micro fauna is present in those septic tank inoculants, fish tank "bacterial-filter" supplements, and or so called "sludge removers" or fuck it; maybe a established aquarium filter.....and if any of that might work in lieu of all the aforementioned steps (Kudus to the OP but admittedly I didn't read all 292 pages of this thread)..... also wonder if that shit to kill "red slime" in fish tanks would similarly kill the cynos in hydro DWC (assuming that stuff doesn't fck up our nice buds) ... obviously someone would need to have the slime and a spare weed plant to test it but this is only just a thought experiment from a science impaired/public school system edjumacated weed smoker

 

[Shexy8]

it actually isn't 2 to 3 times the strength.. the soluble form of mycogrow is.. a thing of great white costs what.. 40 - 60 bucks.. it can inoculate around maybe 40(not even) batches of tea depending on the tub.. a bag of mycogrow will inoculate a hundred and twenty batches of tea.. bc it is so concentrated... either way you are getting more if you break it down to dollar to gram ratio.. and the powder is stronger.. but great white is fine seriously.. i just don't want you spending more money for something that isn't the strongest.. the only thing that great white has that is different is vitamins and stuff for the bacteria.. which they dont need when used with tea.. so it actually "waters down" the product.. it is a filler.. just like trying to buy some blow.. they cut that shit brehh! .. but yes if you want it in quicker than 2 or 3 days.. then great white is highly recommended as well.. myco is just a hell of alot cheaper and comes in a short amount of time with the cheapest shipping.. it may have been free shipping actually.. lol.. so yeah.. good shit!

and add the zho powder INTO the tea.. and to reduce slime, even if it is good, you may want to stop spraying zho onto roots.. as you may have read in the forums or even in the original hiesenberg post.. zho powder is a cause of a very slippery feeling on roots.. not slime.. but slippery.. so just adding it to the tea will allow some of those fungi to get eaten and the strong ones to survive..

so very soon we will have a close enough tea that it should do the magic.. if not.. i would completely cut out the zho powder if it doesn't.. just to make sure that it isn't just that.. but i am expecting great things from this great white.. it's a very strong inoculant as well.. i was going to get that.. until i found the mycogrow soluble powder.. so im set on bacteria now .. i have more than i will ever need.. 6 of the 6$ bags... yes.. i said six dollars.. and you get way more than anywhere else.. love the shit .. wooot!

 

[Shexy8]

yeah.. um.. "brown slime algae" (the kind of "algae" that we are fighting on this forum) is actually bacteria.. so no.. an algaecide that kills algae will not kill it.. SORRY to burst your bubble.. cynobacteria is not plant matter.. so it doesn't use photosynthesis.. it is an anerobic bacteria that can survive some of the craziest environments.. like low to no oxygen, no light, cold, sterile environments that have bleach, h2o2, chlorine, pool shock, fucking antibacterial soap for god's sake.. this shit is WICKED sly and has the ability to outthink you haha.. unless you throw in OTHER natural apex predator bacteria.. which will systematically hunt down these sons of bitches..

so.. to answer your question.. i would never put something organic in my tea.. i put dry and wet bacteria "base" in there with some food and they grow and multiply.. i would never ever put a sludge into it because that sludge has been around for a while and some bad bacteria may have out bred the good ones.. so it would be harming, not helping the tea... ON ANOTHER NOTE!.. that sludge would be WICKED GOOD for soil grows! =) my grandfather has been using a sludge from the bottom of this rain water tank that builds up for years to feed his gardens.. they grow so fucking big.. a tomato the size of my head came out of it.. and a pumpkin that was almost as big as a shopping cart! LOL.. so soil grows and outdoor soil grows .. go right ahead! =) have fun with it! that's what this is all about... soil has the ability to support and control the kind of bacterial stuff that hydro can't.. that's just the nature of the beast.. that is why we add our own life to the water.. so that if anything does get into there... it will get eaten naturally by the food chain in the water... it is so much better than trying to keep that bitch sterile .. dwc's are dirtyy whores... remember that! and they will always become dirty eventually... even if you've been running clean for years.. everyone comes to beneficial bacteria after a while.. EVERYONE!!! so many people have come to this forum like OMG IDK WHAT TO DO ive been growing for 10 years and i got slimed!! +(((((+(=999=(((!?!?! ... and we try to help them and explain as best we can.. so yeauup.. soil grows for that sludge of yours =) PEACE brehh

 

[Gifted0ne]

Shexy8,
Dude i've read through this entire thread believe it or not and its sick the amount of info is here, i screen shot photo's of all the important info with fireshot for future reference if need be. What i've noticed is Heisenberg is using over 1 tsp per gallon mycogrow, while the Great white max dose says 1/2 tsp gal per the label i find that kind of unnecessary to add over twice as much into a brew.

Anyways the ZHO from what i've gathered is useless in the TEA before after etc. It just endo myco's that will not reproduce nor germinate and will be destroyed, while adding it after the brew is a waste because you're only using a cup per 5-10 gallons res water and all the Zho you've just added will no longer be productive sitting in the bottle in the fridge. So my game plan is put about 1/8 tsp ZHO in the cup i use to pour the crown and 1/8 per 2 gallons res water.. If you find this of no benefit please explain. Such as if it will be eaten then i can think of no way to populate the rootzone with myco. Maybe when i start clone next time i will only use ZHO first then start using the tea once i bring the water level up.. (I dont bring the water level up until roots are 3-4 inches out of net pot anyways just top feed once a day) it gets faster development.

I've also noticed my aquashield has expired ajhfdjhfhajhuihewfbjk.. and i just bought it. However everything in it Great White has except for Bacillus amyloliquefaciens therefore I will be purchasing the NEW HYDROGUARD opposed to more aquashield, because its primarily Amyloliquefaciens.

I am well aware now to never ever put any kind of organic in the res, and im using Sensi A+B regular and am not sure whether this product contain an organic like the ph perfect line does. If anyone has some concrete info on that I would appreciate it.

So basically just Ancient Forest, Great White @ 1/4tsp gal., Hydroguard, and molasses. Then ZHO to netpot/res, from what ive read cant beat that.
BTW i only brew up 1/2 gallon and haven't had any issues like Heisenberg was explaining with small volumes.

 

[Shexy8]

1i have a two gallon minimum.. ya know? there is nothing wronger with less.. it's fuckign water.. just adjust for evaporation.. so 3/4 gallon ?...

2i like some of the ideas that you have , but where did you hear that the mycos dont reproduce?.. if it is alive.. then it reproduces.. whether that be asexually or sexually..

3i did know that the aqua shield was expired.. but.. it's the only way to get it.. some people will get hot batches of the shit and it will slime them.. but the way they package it allows almost all to be just fine.. so yup

sounds like a fine tea.. as long as there is a way to put something close to mycogrow or great white in there, you're fine! haha.. i also told you never to add any kind of organic.. it is up to you to figure out exactly what is organic and what isn't.. i dont use sensi or three part.. i use CANNA products only.. A+ chemicals =) i do know that some three part programs have been slimed alot on this forum... but some haven't.. heisenberg says not to use advanced nutrient additives, but that may be because AN is a big soul sucking machine.. or because it actually slimes shit.. who knows.. i have heard of a few people do fine with AN additives, but most actually come crawling to this forum.. so that shows us doesn't it.. haha..

and another thing.. i would just put the zho in the tea bro.. it works for everyone else.. there is nothing backing that statement.. from ANYONE on this forum.. unless hiesenberg has said something that i haven't seen.. (which is possible) but i only listen to hiesenberg's posts and comments.. there are a few other people that have posted here that are almost right sometimes.. but most arent.. so i only follow his instructions.. and his posts.. that is why i succeed.. if you would have followed mine.. you would have succeeded sooner.. ya know? it's all a circle.. the reason people put ZHO powder into the tea is bc it is fungi.. fungi has the ability to slime everything if left out of control.. that's why you DONT put it over your netpot... that's why you put it in tea.. even if there are only a few of them, they will outcompete most aggressive organisms... so that's why you put it into the tea in the first place man.. so they can be controlled.. my tea is fabulous.. you seen my 3 or 4 week into flowering nugs? lol.. fucking 4th week flower nugs.. it doesn't lie.. even though tea has nothing to do with growth in the plant besides for enzymes which help alot.. but the tea gives me space to do what i need to do.. which is AWESOME!.. your tea will be great.. i see that everything is pretty much accounted for and that you are well on your way.. but! if you need anything.. ask away! peace brother ...

 

[Gifted0ne]

OK so that didnt work very well cant even see em... this is copy n paste from Heins

Did some reading today...

If you are adding ZHO or some other fungal inoculant (not those mixed with bacteria) add it at the end of tea making, or add it directly to the res. We already knew mycos do not activate in the tea, and it seems most other fungi do not have time to multiply in 48 hours. Some fungi like trichoderma will germinate and grow bigger in the tea, but not reach fruiting stage. The more time myco spores stay in the tea, the more likely they are to be destroyed or eaten. You can encourage more fungi (and feed bacteria) if you add a little fruit rind to the tea.

It applies only to inoculates which contain fungi and nothing else, such as ZHO or Sub-m. The original tea recipe works just fine, so you can ignore this if you want. Some of us just like to play around with the microbes. If you have a powder which contains only fungi spores and nothing else, brewing them does little good. Those powders generally have a mix of mycos and trichoderma, neither of which will increase their numbers in the tea. You can add them into the tea at the end of the brew for inclusion or just add them to the res, preferably directly on the roots. We do get a variety of other fungi from the ancient forest soil amendment, and you can encourage those to grow, and possibly multiply, in the tea if you add a bit of fruit rind.

 

[Shexy8]

so just add fruit rind! lol.. honestly.. there is no evidence that they are "eaten".. but i'm telling you this.. they are very aggressive and active.. so i doubt that a smaller bacteria would overcome them.. all i know is that my fungi are quite active.. since i clean them off of my chiller hoses.. it's pretty crazy.. also.. just by the size of my roots i can tell you that there are fungi colonizing INSIDE the roots and protecting them.. that's what they do.. i do not disagree with heisenberg.. i remember readign taht post actually.. BUT since i saw no difinitive evidence of the fungi getting killed off.. i opted to have them in the tea so they could at least start to breed.. even if thier breeding cycles are long.. so i guess getting a head start on the breeding would be smart to me.. but i can understand why adding them later would make sense..

i hope your new tea works for you man! i've been rootin for the tea.. but now that you have ALL of the bennies that should be there.. i would recommend it to anyone! =)

 

[Gifted0ne]

I gotcha, the best part tho is literately all ZHO fungis is already in the Great White/MycoGrow and Ancient Forest. So i guess the ZHO is insurance, besides it really only needed every couple weeks as the myco's get fed by the plant.

 

[Shexy8]

yeahhh the roots feed them .. send it down to the roots so they protect it ... totally ! so i guess that makes sense.. fo sho

 

[Gifted0ne]

 

[Heisenberg]

A couple points of clarification:

Mycos will stay in spore form until they make contact with root material. That means in the brew they never germinate, however we add them to the brew a few hours from the finish so that they soften up and become ready to germinate. Once inside the res, they will colonize the roots and grow, but never fruit, and are eventually killed off near the end of flower from the nutes.

Microbe preparations intended for aquariums may contain aggressive nitrogen eaters to clean up the fish waste, which is not a good thing to have in your rez.


And a tip:

The tea works best when roots are present, which is why some people have trouble keeping the slime off newly rooted cuttings even when everything else is under control. Pick up some rhizotonic and use it in the first res your clones go into. You'll only need it at first, and after that maintain regular tea maintenance. The combination has solved absolutely all my problems.

 

[hellnaugh]

Heis Can u please tell me when and how much nutrients shud i use while using the TEA PLEASE? Im using GH 3 part Useless formula cause this brown stuff is crazy. ANd another ? shud i clean erthing and while TEA is brewing just leave plant in plain ro water, shud i ph PLEASE HELP

 

[Gifted0ne]

A couple points of clarification:

Mycos will stay in spore form until they make contact with root material. That means in the brew they never germinate, however we add them to the brew a few hours from the finish so that they soften up and become ready to germinate. Once inside the res, they will colonize the roots and grow, but never fruit, and are eventually killed off near the end of flower from the nutes.

Microbe preparations intended for aquariums may contain aggressive nitrogen eaters to clean up the fish waste, which is not a good thing to have in your rez.


And a tip:

The tea works best when roots are present, which is why some people have trouble keeping the slime off newly rooted cuttings even when everything else is under control. Pick up some rhizotonic and use it in the first res your clones go into. You'll only need it at first, and after that maintain regular tea maintenance. The combination has solved absolutely all my problems.

Very helpful info as always.
Question; when brewing the ZHO/AS/AF the tea would be rather slow being filtered through the coffee filters and I would use about 5 per 1/2 gal. Now when i brew the AF/Great white without ZHO the tea would filter right through to where i could easily do 1/2 gal through 1 filter. Is this due to Trichoderma fungi growing large into a slime substance blocking the filters? If so I could see why the ZHO could be useful in the tea, although these fungi supposed to also be in the great white which im a little baffled by. What ever is in the ZHO causing that is also getting filtered out since eventually the filter stops all liquid. What about adding the ZHO at 24hr mark?(primarily for the Trichoderma).. Also wont most of the myco's end up in the fridge for most people and they will never germinate.

My experience with early rooting
When I transplanted 12 rooted clones in to net pots I used Zone with my base (250-300 ppm) and just basically top fed each plant once a day, except for the first feed I allowed 3 days before the next top feed. I had very low water levels in the buckets which allowed plenty of moisture so when the roots did come out the net pots they never dried out, and the cubes were never soaked. The low water level was the only way to I could keep the rockwool from stay soaked.. All of them rooted out exceptionally fast and with no sign of pythium or slime, and with some I actually didn't even use Zone. I should also note i use 4inch net pots, which is smaller then most people.

I dont know if this is helpful to you or not. But anyways it wasn't until i moved the water level up to the roots and within 1 inch from net pots when the roots started to slowly get dark in the air gap above water level. And also the thicker areas in the water where roots grew together also started becoming darker. Although the Zone kept tubing and airstone completely slime free in the water. The roots did initially explode but quickly Pythium/slime kept getting worse, and slower growth began. Anyways the tea is what is fixing that now and next time I will just make sure to have the tea in as soon as i bring the water level up.

With this method the roots will explode non stop from clone.

 

[Gifted0ne]

Heis Can u please tell me when and how much nutrients shud i use while using the TEA PLEASE? Im using GH 3 part Useless formula cause this brown stuff is crazy. ANd another ? shud i clean erthing and while TEA is brewing just leave plant in plain ro water, shud i ph PLEASE HELP

If you're in DWC the Useless formula is way too high in ppm. You're prob burning your roots. Just add equal parts GMB and like 150ppm calimagic. 300-500ppm total depending on plant size.

Just clean the slime off as much as you can with your fingers and RO water.. Dont get any h202 or chlorine on the roots because you dont want to harm bennies. Get a small buckets with air stones use plain RO, ph it, then add 1 cup per gallon tea. Get air stones in the buckets and make sure air can escape from the bucket somewhere other then net pot cause you want to take the water level all the way up into the net pot. Dont add any nutrients, and let it sit throughout the dark period for 6 hrs, then put it back in the nutrient bucket. The nutrient bucket should have tea also just less like 50ml/gal.

 

[hellnaugh]

Thanx for the info....

 

[TN Jedeye]

Great information. I grew DWC and aeroponically for several years with fantastic results....and then the slime showed up. I battled it with hydrogen peroxide, SM-90, bleach, Physan 20, etc. for several months to no avail. I finally gave up and began growing in pro mix, which is how I grow to this day. I may brew up some tea and use bubble buckets again in the near future. I miss the explosive growth and ease of DWC. Hauling out 8 or 9 cubic ft. of pro mix between every grow is a bitch. At the very least I'll be able to use my EZ Cloner again.

 

[litesellme]

I have been battling a root issue for around 8 months now. I am a seasoned grower and have never ran into any kind of root issues at all in 10 years. I used voodoo juice for the last 5 years just as a preventative measure. The roots don't smell and do not have any kind of snot on them. I have noticed a brown colored pathogen floating in my rez which stays suspended for a while, then built up on the bottom on my tank and rez. I first noticed it when putting in new clones and seeing brown silty stuff building up on the rockwool cubes. I now notice it everywhere and it builds up on the bottom of my buckets up to 1/8 thick. I have stopped all add on and have been using only GH 3 part tell I sort out this issue.

I have tried Dutchmaster Zone, SM90, h2o2, ozone every watering and just last week the HB Tea. Sterile hasn't gotten me far, so I'm going to try bennies. Is this stuff diatoms which feed on the hydroton causing the brown color? Is it rust bacteria? ulitimately it causes the root zones die back 80 percent, and about 2 weeks into flowering crop failure. The plant appears normal, them ill notice branches dieing, a hand full a day, until the whole plant dies. This issue has kept me up many nights and is really getting me depressed. Please help Photos show: 1. crop failure after 3 weeks of flowering 2. Veg with damaged roots, rockwool cubes during veg with damaged roots, brown gunk pathogen, damaged roots.

 

[Shexy8]

i told you to pick up that rhizotonic... it's great stuff.. but pricey...! get the liter size of it.. im glad heisenberg came and clarified some of that for you so that you didn't think that it was just me saying random shit.. haha.. any more questions please ask me .. and i will elaborate ..

 

[Shexy8]

read this post.. not the one above.. same shit.. just more info.. it wouldn't let me EDIT!!!


dude the brown color is the shit getting eaten.. i always like wiping that shit off anywat... and please... PLEASE.... follow the tea recipe to THE T.. alot of people are like " why do i still have rot? i put my own poop into the tea hoping it would work.. why didn't it?" PEOPLE ARE CRAZY~!! LLOLLLL... so just follow it to the exact letter.. you can get rid of aqua shield though since ALL bottles are now expired since they don't sell it anymore.. i bought it.. and use it.. but some people dont like that.. you NEED at least these things.. ANCIENT FOREST (just very good quality..), MYCOGROW or GREAT WHITE.. (you can get mycogrom from www.fungi.com and they are cheap.. ) and zho powder.. (isn't super necessary.. but i like the fungi that come with it.. ) and you also need molasses or maple syrup..

you mix up two gallons at a time.. 1.. you put STERILE water with no chlorine in it into the bucket.. 2.. get a sock and put two fist fulls of ancient forest into it.. (you will be securing an air stone into that sock later..okay?) 4.. add 1 and a half teaspoons of maple syrup or molasses... 5 put the sock with the airstone in it into the water to let it float.. 6 make sure that you put everything into the bucket in the list below.. 7.. wait 48 hours.. and then take everything out of the bucket.. 8.. use a tshirt (not folded) with at least two layers of tshirt to filter the stuff.. filter about a liter at a time.. and dont filter directly from the bucket.. i use a 20 ounce plastic cylinder looking thing.. so filter all of it.. 9 if you want to filter it more.. use a coffee filter to filter all of it again.. (will take longer than tshirt).. 10 add 1 cup per gallon to your res.. and also pour half a cup or a cup over EVERY net pot..

BELOW
THIS IS THE LIST V V V V V V

my exact recipe is this (READ everything in between these "( )" <<<<
2 gallons of water (the water can't have chlorine in it.. can't have chloramine in it.. so i suggest RO water or filtered through a final filter or something like that mmk? ?
1-2 tsp of maple syrup OR molasses (i like maple syrup bc molasses is super thick and i think maple syrup is cleaner.. =)
15-25ml - aquashield (can be replaced by a product called "Hydrobact" by the company Simple Path, very cheap, very effective)
1/4-1/2 small scoop zho powder (of the small scoop that comes with the package in zho powder)
15-25ml Hydrobact (a very cheap but potent blend of bacteria made specifically for hydro)
Mycogrow 1/8 to 1/16 of the small scoop that comes in the zho powder package (can be bough online for 5 or 6 bucks an ounce at www.Fungi.com YOU NEED THIS)
2 handfuls of Ancient Forest( is way better than earthworm castings bc it has Alaskan humus which is basically the SHIT! lol.. )
*****Mycogrow can be replaced by Great White, but you need to use more.. and it is expensive.. so i would use 1/2 of the small scoop that comes with zho powder..
***** if you noticed.. i use the two sided measuring spoon that comes with zho powder.. that's bc i would not replace this product with anything else.. i think it is necessary.. i have seen it activate under a microscope.. amazing.. i have also seen mycogrow.. aquashield and ancient forest.. and hydrobact too.. very great products.. =)

 

[Shexy8]

NVM... i just deleted the OTHER one.. lol.. so there is only ONE post now.. READ THAT ONE!! LOL