What are your thoughts on a basic income?

twostrokenut

twostrokenut

Well-Known Member
lets just bump min wage up to $1000 per hour and crash this biatch....we all will get to eat crab legs for a while it will be totally worth it.
 
NLXSK1

NLXSK1

Well-Known Member
Padawanbater2 said:
A basic income (also called basic income guarantee, unconditional basic income, universal basic income, universal demogrant,[SUP][1][/SUP] or citizen’s income) is a proposed system[SUP][2][/SUP] of social security in which citizens or residents of a country regularly receive a sum of money unconditionally from the government. This is distinct from guaranteed minimum income, which may be conditional upon participation in the labor force or other means testing. A basic income of any amount less than the social minimum is sometimes referred to as a 'partial basic income'.
Similar proposals for "capital grants provided at the age of majority" date to Thomas Paine's Agrarian Justice of 1795, there paired with asset-based egalitarianism.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basic_income
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I think it is a great idea!! I will send you my address and you send me my basic income every month. It will be a little tight on 2,000 dollars but beggars cannot be choosers! Get cracking cause I dont want to work anymore and I want my free money!
 
B

beenthere

New Member
Only one of the reasons why you should only get paid what you are worth.

[video=youtube;pJuXVcq5Oa8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJuXVcq5Oa8[/video]
 
Doer

Doer

Well-Known Member
If you think there is a basic right to live for nothing, go to Alaska or the Everglades. You will last only a few months. You get nothing for nothing, especially in those places.

Only Aus has unlimited welfare time and a healthy employment rate. 5.6%

That is because there are only a very few people in a very harsh and physical country.

If you feed people for free, you get more people to feed that are trained from birth not to be productive. The Malthusian Conundrum. The Welfare Mom with 9 kids and 9 absent fathers.
 
Dr Kynes

Dr Kynes

Well-Known Member
Doer said:
If you think there is a basic right to live for nothing, go to Alaska or the Everglades. You will last only a few months. You get nothing for nothing, especially in those places.

Only Aus has unlimited welfare time and a healthy employment rate. 5.6%

That is because there are only a very few people in a very harsh and physical country.

If you feed people for free, you get more people to feed that are trained from birth not to be productive. The Malthusian Conundrum. The Welfare Mom with 9 kids and 9 absent fathers.
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thats racist?
 
Dr Kynes

Dr Kynes

Well-Known Member
UncleBuck said:
witness an austrian's demented sense of economics and ponder why all they have is theory.
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mandating that everyone be paid $1000/hour would be super inflationary.

even the dipshit econo-tards dont believe the twaddle they sell about minimum wages not being inflationary, thats why they always just want a lil bit more.

if cab drivers make $1000/ hour then your 30 minute cab ride will cost $500 + expenses overhead, taxes, insurance, and profit for the cab company.

your Big Mac comes with 35% of the price going to labour costs right now coming out to about $1.47 per burger, at $1000/hour that will skyrocket.

$1.75/burger at $8/hour = a burger production rate of 18.3 burgers /hour
if as you assert, the price cannot go up to pay for McWages, then that same burger flipper will have to flip 571.4 bugers per hour to make up the new higher cost, so his employer can just break even on increased aggregate demand inspired volume.

even if bread beef and lettuce dont go up (somehow) that burger assembler will have to be paid, thus either the worker must produce impossibly more burgers, or the price will shoot up to cover his time per burger, making that Big Mac cost ~$590, but thats cool cuz everybody else now makes $1000/hour too.

naturally, you will still sell your weed for the same price you do now, which i assume is ~$3000/ounce (or at least thats what law enforcement claims in "Street Value"...)

you went to the same school as those cops didnt ya?
 
Sand4x105

Sand4x105

Well-Known Member
Dr Kynes said:
mandating that everyone be paid $1000/hour would be super inflationary.

even the dipshit econo-tards dont believe the twaddle they sell about minimum wages not being inflationary, thats why they always just want a lil bit more.

if cab drivers make $1000/ hour then your 30 minute cab ride will cost $500 + expenses overhead, taxes, insurance, and profit for the cab company.

your Big Mac comes with 35% of the price going to labour costs right now coming out to about $1.47 per burger, at $1000/hour that will skyrocket.

$1.75/burger at $8/hour = a burger production rate of 18.3 burgers /hour
if as you assert, the price cannot go up to pay for McWages, then that same burger flipper will have to flip 571.4 bugers per hour to make up the new higher cost, so his employer can just break even on increased aggregate demand inspired volume.

even if bread beef and lettuce dont go up (somehow) that burger assembler will have to be paid, thus either the worker must produce impossibly more burgers, or the price will shoot up to cover his time per burger, making that Big Mac cost ~$590, but thats cool cuz everybody else now makes $1000/hour too.

naturally, you will still sell your weed for the same price you do now, which i assume is ~$3000/ounce (or at least thats what law enforcement claims in "Street Value"...)

you went to the same school as those cops didnt ya?
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Quit being so logical...
 
Dr Kynes

Dr Kynes

Well-Known Member
Sand4x105 said:
Quit being so logical...
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i cannot help it.

im an entrepreneur by nature, so i'm always looking for the angles.

someday, my capital, opportunity and luck will align and then ill be wearing tuxedos to the gym, and making it rain for strippers with a cascade of singles, instead of pelting them with nickels.
 
B

BigNBushy

Well-Known Member
Dr Kynes said:
your "prebate" is a sop to the plebs, nothing more. in fact your whole argument is pointless since the federal government has no constitutional power to tax labour or wages at all, and has no power to tax transactions within a state, or between the states.

Congress is empowered to lay stamp taxes on goods in interstate or international commerce, levy tariffs, and submit a bill to it's member states for remission of funds by apportionment.

in breif, the congress can tax GOODS in commerce (not labour services or your sweat) and it can tax the states, not people.

arguing for a "fairtax", (just a slogan for a national sales tax, which is as unfair as any tax ever devised) is stupid.
sales taxes are nothing new, they are a lethal chokehold for the economy, and a boon for black marketeers.

YOU obviously have very little knowledge of how economies work, and what little you do have was shat directly into your mouth from between the broad buttocks of a person who would do VERY WELL INDEED if his income, investments and holdings are untaxed.

the system is FUCKED and needs fixing, but this proposal is Dead On Arrival.
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I do agree it's dead on arrival, because congress would never relenquish the power our current tax scheme gives them.

I also agree our current system is fucked, because congress has fucked it by being corrupt.

Everything else contained in your above post, however, is incorrect.

Prices would actually decline under the fair tax. It's counter-intuitive, but it's reality. Take a loaf of bread, or any other good or service. Everyone along the way from the guy who sells the farmer the wheat seed to the grocery store who sells the loaf imbeds within the price of that loaf the taxes they have to pay as a result of the income they make. The fair tax removes those cost to producers, and competitive forces of the marketplace drives the price down.

The united states would become a Mecca for investment globally, resulting in massive economic growth. The wealthy who keep billions in off shore banks to avoid paying tax on it suddenly can bring that capital home.

Your argument about congress not having the power to levy a tax on income was correct for the last time in 1913 when the 16th amendment was adopted. It gave congress the power to levy a direct tax.

The fair tax has the goal of repealing this amendment.

It's shocking the amount of misinformation there is out there aout the fair tax. You should read boortz's book.
 
Dr Kynes

Dr Kynes

Well-Known Member
BigNBushy said:
I do agree it's dead on arrival, because congress would never relenquish the power our current tax scheme gives them.

I also agree our current system is fucked, because congress has fucked it by being corrupt.

Everything else contained in your above post, however, is incorrect.

Prices would actually decline under the fair tax. It's counter-intuitive, but it's reality. Take a loaf of bread, or any other good or service. Everyone along the way from the guy who sells the farmer the wheat seed to the grocery store who sells the loaf imbeds within the price of that loaf the taxes they have to pay as a result of the income they make. The fair tax removes those cost to producers, and competitive forces of the marketplace drives the price down.

The united states would become a Mecca for investment globally, resulting in massive economic growth. The wealthy who keep billions in off shore banks to avoid paying tax on it suddenly can bring that capital home.

Your argument about congress not having the power to levy a tax on income was correct for the last time in 1913 when the 16th amendment was adopted. It gave congress the power to levy a direct tax.

The fair tax has the goal of repealing this amendment.

It's shocking the amount of misinformation there is out there aout the fair tax. You should read boortz's book.
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amazing the amount of misinformation on the "16th amendment" and the income tax.

the 16th does NOT give any new power to tax, nor did it strike out the existing language that requires Apportionment for all direct taxation of the people.
the 16th was never ratified, the secretary of the treasury simply declared it to be "In Force" which is NOT a power granted to the treasury sec in the constitution.

when there is a contradiction between a law and the constitution, the constitution wins. when there is a dispute betwen one part of the constitution and a new amendment, the older version takes precedence, unless the newer version specifically redacts the older portion, which the 16 did not.

http://www.thelawthatneverwas.com/defects.aspx

but since the courts have supported the claims of the state, well naturally the law MUST be valid. just like slavery, Dredd Scott, the Runaway Slave laws, the secession of the southern states, the annexation of hawaii, the breaking of treaties with the native tribes and first peoples, the creation of a standing army, the seating of "czars", the creation of the bureaucratic establishment and it's mandarins, imposition of laws against dissent, prohibition of cannabis, the use of drones in an undeclared war, undeclared wars in general, transferring the power to coin and print money to a private institution ruled by a secret cabal, Jim Crow, and the countless shenanigans used by the FBI CIA and NSA to undermine the government and people of the US and pretty much every other nation in the world...
 
Padawanbater2

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
Dr Kynes said:
mandating that everyone be paid $1000/hour would be super inflationary.

even the dipshit econo-tards dont believe the twaddle they sell about minimum wages not being inflationary, thats why they always just want a lil bit more.

if cab drivers make $1000/ hour then your 30 minute cab ride will cost $500 + expenses overhead, taxes, insurance, and profit for the cab company.

your Big Mac comes with 35% of the price going to labour costs right now coming out to about $1.47 per burger, at $1000/hour that will skyrocket.

$1.75/burger at $8/hour = a burger production rate of 18.3 burgers /hour
if as you assert, the price cannot go up to pay for McWages, then that same burger flipper will have to flip 571.4 bugers per hour to make up the new higher cost, so his employer can just break even on increased aggregate demand inspired volume.

even if bread beef and lettuce dont go up (somehow) that burger assembler will have to be paid, thus either the worker must produce impossibly more burgers, or the price will shoot up to cover his time per burger, making that Big Mac cost ~$590, but thats cool cuz everybody else now makes $1000/hour too.

naturally, you will still sell your weed for the same price you do now, which i assume is ~$3000/ounce (or at least thats what law enforcement claims in "Street Value"...)

you went to the same school as those cops didnt ya?
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http://laborcenter.berkeley.edu/retail/bigbox_livingwage_policies11.pdf

"Even if Walmart were to pass 100 percent of the wage increase on to consumers, the average impact on a Walmart shopper would be quite small: 1.1 percent of prices, well below Walmart's estimated savings to consumers. This works out to $0.46 per shopping trip, or $12.49 per year, for the average consumer who spends approximately $1,187 per year at Walmart"
 
Dr Kynes

Dr Kynes

Well-Known Member
Padawanbater2 said:
http://laborcenter.berkeley.edu/retail/bigbox_livingwage_policies11.pdf

"Even if Walmart were to pass 100 percent of the wage increase on to consumers, the average impact on a Walmart shopper would be quite small: 1.1 percent of prices, well below Walmart's estimated savings to consumers. This works out to $0.46 per shopping trip, or $12.49 per year, for the average consumer who spends approximately $1,187 per year at Walmart"
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however if the minimum wage doubles (as demanded by the McGoon Squad) then EVERY wage and salary will have to double which adds up fast.

or do you think carpenters and plumbers will happily accept Minimum Wage (the new sub-poverty wage) for their labours too?

thats just one part of the issue you guys cant wrap your heads around.

heres another

if the employer makes $15/ hour profit off your labours at $7.25/hour then when he must pay you $15/hour HE WILL EXPECT $30/Hour PROFIT FROM YOU!

when the minimum wage goes up, those making MORE than minimum wage feel a pay cut, and all the idiotic claims that the minimum wage is not inflationary are just so much hot air.

if your burger flippers and retail drones now make $15/ hour, shit WILL cost more, simple math and basic logic make that clear.
 
Dr Kynes

Dr Kynes

Well-Known Member
heckler73 said:
Stocks and Flows. Kalecki's "profit equation".

Profits = Net Investment - Personal Savings - Foreign Savings - Gov't Savings + Profits Taxes + Dividends

http://www.levyforecast.com/assets/Profits.pdf
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puhleeze.

28 pages of sophistry.

profit is simply the return of an investment minus it's cost.
Gross Reciepts - Expenses (taxes, labour facilities, utiliies, regulatory compliance costs etc) = Profit

Profit - (Capital Reserve + Re-Investment Monies + Performance Bonuses) / number of investors = Dividend

Stock Price / Expected Dividend = PE Ratio, or how long you must hold this stock for it to start paying off from your investment

if a company does not make a profit, there is no dividend, thus the PE ratio becomes a sucking wound and the stock price falls.
the profits do NOT come from government unless the company is a government contractor, most of the profits come from THE MARKET FOR GOODS AND SERVICES, not the fed's love of printing money.

your citations are all a gigantic swindle, designed to convince the people who actually DO SHIT that they are pointless leeches who's only value is their role as a "Consumer".

if farmers stop accepting your money for their food, how long will you survive eating your fiat currency?
 
UncleBuck

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
kynes can huff and puff, but a decent gust of fact wind blows his little house down and renders it naked.

i suppose yoou have to be long winded though when all the actual succinct, concise facts are against you.
 
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