Paul Ryan (R-WI) guts billions from veteran's benefits

[abandonconflict]

Surely you can see why this is a logical fallacy. Even if your statement is true, it has no impact on my statement. Touting the JAG or engineering corps as smart volunteers says nothing about the frontline grunts.

No. I'm talking about experience. The highest asvab scores consistently belong to combat arms troops. Infantry battalions have higher average gt scores.

 

[echelon1k1]

Surely you can see why this is a logical fallacy. Even if your statement is true, it has no impact on my statement. Touting the JAG or engineering corps as smart volunteers says nothing about the frontline grunts.

You familiar with GMAT scores? What would you consider high?

 

[tokeprep]

Special ops are the frontline troops. High school doesn't produce soldiers and neither does college. The troops who dismount and do the dirty work are extremely well trained. Even the low ranking marines and army infantry.

There is really no part of your post that is based on fact. You're simply speculating on what you think makes sense. The fact is that it takes a lot of intelligence and mental toughness to make it through combat. This is why the military sends the fittest into danger.

Ok. I thought you lived in Mexico? You know I know lots of people who have served in the American military right? What the fuck are you talking about?

 

[tokeprep]

No. I'm talking about experience. The highest asvab scores consistently belong to combat arms troops. Infantry battalions have higher average gt scores.

When I was graduating from high school they were desperate for troops. You can talk about the "highest" scores all you want--reality is reality.

 

[tokeprep]

You familiar with GMAT scores? What would you consider high?

I'm not familiar with GMAT scores, but I caution you from equating people eligible for commissions with people who are enlisted. It's fundamentally different.

 

[abandonconflict]

Ok. I thought you lived in Mexico? You know I know lots of people who have served in the American military right? What the fuck are you talking about?

82nd airborne Afghanistan 2002, Iraq 2003-2004. Infantry.

 

[DutchKillsRambo]

...do you know any? Your doubt sounds awfully scholastic. I take it you've never been deployed.



Your first statement just isn't true. The frontline troops are the expendable grunts. Special ops account for a small fraction of combat, and yet you've elevated them to being "the real battles." Let's be frank about this: the real battles are fought by people who barely graduated high school.

I appreciate their sacrifices and their sense of dedication to this country. That inclination rises above that in most of the educated or successful people I have ever known. That doesn't mean they're brilliant, and it certainly doesn't mean they're prepared for the horrors of modern war.

Well I did 4 years of ROTC for the Army but that hardly counts.

And I really think you haven't actually studied a lot about how modern wars are being fought, which I find a bit surprising considering your otherwise knowledgeable posts.

Battles are done. The idea of a set-piece battle is pretty much a thing of the past. There are no front lines. Yes we still do active patrols, but we don't truly hold territory, it's mostly a projection of force. And with super-sonic jets that can hit a target in minutes, why should we have foot-slogging infantry? Our military is still built up for a conventional war with the USSR; we really have only recently begun to adopt new tactics.

The "Front-Line", ie the people most actively taking the fight on the ground are Special Forces, and have been since the 80's. That means nothing about casualties, as there truly is no "front line", IED's can kill anywhere. To my albeit limited knowledge, every military action the US has undertaken on the ground in the last 30 years has started with Special Forces. Even longer if you want to count Vietnam.

And yes, coming from a military family I can assure you I have met many. From retarded grunts that got full benefits from claiming PTSD and never leaving ship or base to my old roommate that's a SAW gunner in the Green Beret now. I know what you're getting about the poor fighting rich men's wars, but our Special Forces are some of the hardest men on the planet, and very often don't come from poor backgrounds. And they are also not dumb. You'd be surprised at the intellectual requirements a lot of those guys go through.

 

[AimAim]

well that's fine, i have no opinion on the matter.

but since you do feel that way, i feel i should inform you that yo now hate america.

sorry.

Why would anyone expect anything but lukewarm drivel on a political thread on a stoner website?

UB can't even punctuate, or form a complete sentence. But 50 THOUSAND posts shows he right there for all of us, hard at work beating a path to the mailbox for his entitlement check.

 

[echelon1k1]

I'm not familiar with GMAT scores, but I caution you from equating people eligible for commissions with people who are enlisted. It's fundamentally different.

http://www.veritasprep.com/blog/2011/05/six-reasons-that-navy-seal-team-6-would-score-700-on-the-gmat/

Every special forces soldier started out as an infantry grunt, most with one or two deployments and many, many years of training behind them before even attempting the barrier test.

I'm not just talking about your generalist special forces guys - i'm talking about the guys that are members of special mission units where commissions don't matter much.

In short, intelligence is a highly sought after attribute in todays western militaries - do not think that only applies to management, who for the most part don't get by on intelligence, they play the game.

 

[abandonconflict]

Special Forces pick fights and the infantry wins them. The infantry also did the bulk of the door to door urban stuff. I am not referring to spreading the news of Jehova's return either.

 

[tokeprep]

82nd airborne Afghanistan 2002, Iraq 2003-2004. Infantry.

Is this about saying you aren't an idiot or is it supposed to be reflective of the entire American military?

 

[tokeprep]

Well I did 4 years of ROTC for the Army but that hardly counts.

And I really think you haven't actually studied a lot about how modern wars are being fought, which I find a bit surprising considering your otherwise knowledgeable posts.

Battles are done. The idea of a set-piece battle is pretty much a thing of the past. There are no front lines. Yes we still do active patrols, but we don't truly hold territory, it's mostly a projection of force. And with super-sonic jets that can hit a target in minutes, why should we have foot-slogging infantry? Our military is still built up for a conventional war with the USSR; we really have only recently begun to adopt new tactics.

The "Front-Line", ie the people most actively taking the fight on the ground are Special Forces, and have been since the 80's. That means nothing about casualties, as there truly is no "front line", IED's can kill anywhere. To my albeit limited knowledge, every military action the US has undertaken on the ground in the last 30 years has started with Special Forces. Even longer if you want to count Vietnam.

And yes, coming from a military family I can assure you I have met many. From retarded grunts that got full benefits from claiming PTSD and never leaving ship or base to my old roommate that's a SAW gunner in the Green Beret now. I know what you're getting about the poor fighting rich men's wars, but our Special Forces are some of the hardest men on the planet, and very often don't come from poor backgrounds. And they are also not dumb. You'd be surprised at the intellectual requirements a lot of those guys go through.

Most of the people who die are stupid grunts, not special forces soldiers. That's that.

 

[abandonconflict]

When I was graduating from high school they were desperate for troops. You can talk about the "highest" scores all you want--reality is reality.

For every infantryman there are 8 support troops from other vocations.

 

[echelon1k1]

Well I did 4 years of ROTC for the Army but that hardly counts.

And I really think you haven't actually studied a lot about how modern wars are being fought, which I find a bit surprising considering your otherwise knowledgeable posts.

Battles are done. The idea of a set-piece battle is pretty much a thing of the past. There are no front lines. Yes we still do active patrols, but we don't truly hold territory, it's mostly a projection of force. And with super-sonic jets that can hit a target in minutes, why should we have foot-slogging infantry? Our military is still built up for a conventional war with the USSR; we really have only recently begun to adopt new tactics.

The "Front-Line", ie the people most actively taking the fight on the ground are Special Forces, and have been since the 80's. That means nothing about casualties, as there truly is no "front line", IED's can kill anywhere. To my albeit limited knowledge, every military action the US has undertaken on the ground in the last 30 years has started with Special Forces. Even longer if you want to count Vietnam.

And yes, coming from a military family I can assure you I have met many. From retarded grunts that got full benefits from claiming PTSD and never leaving ship or base to my old roommate that's a SAW gunner in the Green Beret now. I know what you're getting about the poor fighting rich men's wars, but our Special Forces are some of the hardest men on the planet, and very often don't come from poor backgrounds. And they are also not dumb. You'd be surprised at the Intellectual requirements a lot of those guys go through.

While you are right, the green berets and special forces types have only gained prominence in todays conflicts. It's only post 9/11 they stop being seen as the military's "cowboys" and treated like pariahs due to the unconventional and asymmetric nature of the warfare they conduct and it's only recently the generals have learned to used them effectively. The only danger is overuse we've seen and are still seeing unprecedented operational tempo even though Afghanistan is drawing down

 

[tokeprep]

For every infantryman there are 8 support troops from other vocations.

I'm talking about people who carried the guns and were shot at. The smart ones who I knew were never in combat.

 

[DutchKillsRambo]

Most of the people who die are stupid grunts, not special forces soldiers. That's that.

So truck driving is a "front-line soldier" now? Face it, you know nothing of what you're talking about.

 

[abandonconflict]

Is this about saying you aren't an idiot or is it supposed to be reflective of the entire American military?

Look at the post to which this comment was a response.

For a guy who thinks soldiers are just dumb expendable grunts, you sure are stupid.

 

[abandonconflict]

I'm talking about people who carried the guns and were shot at. The smart ones who I knew were never in combat.

What you consider smart or dumb is clearly dubious.

 

[tokeprep]

So truck driving is a "front-line soldier" now? Face it, you know nothing of what you're talking about.

I'm not in the military. If you're dying, you're on the front line. That's my definition--I feel that it reflects the thousands of troops who have died in the last 10 years--but you can use your own if you please.

 

[tokeprep]

Look at the post to which this comment was a response.

For a guy who thinks soldiers are just dumb expendable grunts, you sure are stupid.

Not all soldiers.