How'd I Do?

[hazey grapes]

You have internet don't you?

nope, i don't even have a computer, but they do have these things called libraries

How can you dislike a light spectrum? That's ridiculous.

um, how can YOU decide what the fuck ever anyone likes or dislikes? i HATE red. that's my business. it's a violent fugly color. NOTHING i own is red if it can be avoided. i haven't had a piece of clothing with red in it since my rasta tree frog tie dye teeshirt that was also yellow and green, back in the 90s. working under a sodium gives me an ill feeling too. i just don't like it. besides, it sucks for growing QUALITY buds as the info will show anyone who wants to look it up. i'm not keen on doing research for others, unless i have it in a handy location i can get it from quickly like all of my files and pics for rollitup on one of my saved hard drives

Propping up plants is more annoying than weaving a screen?

yes, it is! i've had my plants tip over and knock other plants over getting soil in my carpet from raising buckets with blocks, books, or inverted flower pots etc. as needed and available far too many times. it's hard reaching into a garden and working with plants that way, especially when you have limited space to pull them all out to re-level everything too. with scrolling, every week or so, you just tie down a few branches from each plant, ONCE and you're done. it's be even easier if i knew where to find those "donut clamps" that work like a cross between a shower curtain ring and a clothes pin. then you could just snap a branch down and *click* done!

it's not just about how hard or difficult it is either. like i said, and as have others in the "benefits of SCROG" FAQs i've researched myself, scrogging uses ALL of the space under each light more efficiently, and with all of your buds close to your source growing large too because of the evening of auxins (i remember that word from gorge's book i read at least a dozen times from cover to cover in the 80s) as you can see in the pic... nope, no popcorn there! it's how you can compensate for saliva stretch, and especially with mixed strains, put ALL of your plants on the same growing plane which is another well known benefit of the tech that anyone who's bothered to research it BEFORE running their mouths would know. when the OP looks the FAQs on full spectrum + sativas & SCROG up and verifies that i'm not making anything up, you'll make yourself look silly talking trash about lies.

i'm trying to help a brother get high here, and you're trying to lead them astray.

 

[hazey grapes]

OK, i found the thread i was looking for using "halide DJ shorts" as a search term...
https://www.rollitup.org/breeders-paradise/48788-tips-breeding-dj-short.html

Buds too close to the light tend to express nothing beyond the lower lemon/lime aromas of the fruity spectrum. Sometimes the aroma is no better than a strong chemical/astringent odor and flavor, especially those under High Pressure Sodium light systems. The finer berry flavors tend to favor more distance from the bulb, and will manifest more strongly under High Ultraviolet Metal Halide light systems, especially during the latter stages of flowering.

i'l have to remember that thread as an argument against sodium apologists who get their panties all up in a bunch when i mention how much closer the blue spectrums are to THC producing UV than nothing but orange and red sodiums as trolls have attacked that claim too as facts aren't as important as talking loud is for trolls. halide = more UV, maybe not sun tan level, but SOME at the very least.

but grampa jorge cervantes knew the difference all the way back in 1985! that's why the first light i bought was halide, and every one i buy from here on out too will be after hating the sodium i bought and the ill headache feeling it gave me trying to work under it for any length of time.

 

[althor]

^ DJ uses both MH and HPS in flower.

Books written 20 years ago probably need to be re-written now that so much more testing has been done on so much more aspects of cannabis. Throw in the newer "enhanced" spectrums, things have changed too much.

Part of the reason MH is used in the last couple of weeks in flowering by some people is to try and get UVB. Personally I think if you want UVB you are better off getting a UVB lamp and set it up on a timer.

 

[hazey grapes]

there is CURRENT info on the subject too, and as i stated before, halides DO put red and orange out too. the "generic" one i got from discount hydro was practically white, unlike 1st generation electric blue halides before "modern spectrums"" becomes an issue again too. just do some research. saliva growers prefer halides, otherwise, there's be no such thing as "metal haze". just because 90% of cash crapping growers use sodiums for more flowering is no reason to mindless go with the flow. me? i listen to those who share my priorities for quality over quantity.

ONE of the resources that favored halides i read mentioned how they more properly mimic the full spectrum sunlight that equatorial sati vas originate in, but DJ shorts' comments quoted say pretty much the same thing and whereas the "old school" way is to verge under halide and flower under sodium, he specifically mentions using halides in late flowering thus going against the old mythology. in fact, one of the resources i read recommends not using sodiums for landrace sativas. i'm not making any of this up

sodiums = more buds
halides = better buds especially for sativas

let everyone chose THEIR priorities.

 

[althor]

When you say "let everyone choose THEIR priorities"

does that include cash-crop afghan growers?

or should we still fight them to the death?

MH is used in late flower because it matures the terpenes in a way sodium does not. The reason this happens is because UVB. MH is a very poor substitute for real UVB. Add UVB to your sodium and you get the effect that DJ Short is talking about.

 

[Amos Otis]

OK, i found the thread i was looking for using "halide DJ shorts" as a search term...
https://www.rollitup.org/breeders-paradise/48788-tips-breeding-dj-short.html


i'l have to remember that thread as an argument against sodium apologists who get their panties all up in a bunch when i mention how much closer the blue spectrums are to THC producing UV than nothing but orange and red sodiums as trolls have attacked that claim too as facts aren't as important as talking loud is for trolls. halide = more UV, maybe not sun tan level, but SOME at the very least.

but grampa jorge cervantes knew the difference all the way back in 1985! that's why the first light i bought was halide, and every one i buy from here on out too will be after hating the sodium i bought and the ill headache feeling it gave me trying to work under it for any length of time.

I appreciate that you back up your arguments credibly. That doesn't happen anywhere near enough,

I'm curious enough that I'm not going to swap out bulbs to hps @ 3 wks 12/12 as normal over a Ripped Bubba and Chernobyl clone. This is the 3rd run from the moms, and they've been awsome under sodium - see the 'Frostiest Strains' thread. But this time they'll go all the way under MH. Will try to remember to follow up.

 

[althor]

yeah Amos, give it a try.
I have used MH from start to finish, hps from start to finish and the traditional mh in veg/hps in flower.
Hands down there is a reason why the traditional set up is mh in veg and hps in flower.

Also notice in the DJ Short post he uses the phrase....

High Ultraviolet Metal Halide.

check into what it means for "high ultraviolet". MH bulbs do produce UV rays but they have protection that keeps most of the UV from reaching past the bulb. Put it into a air-cooled hood and the hood in the glass reduces even more.



There is much more UVB at the equator than the 45th parallel. How can you get more UVB light to your plants? Certainly it's true that MH lamps emit more UVB light than HPS lamps. Still the amount that MH lamps emit is small. In fact, many manufacturers use UVB shielding glass to filter out most of the UVB that's produced. The UVB light the plant receives from an MH lamp does increase the plant's potency slightly at the cost of yield, but there are better ways to introduce UVB light into the grow room. They include reptile lights, which emit about 10% UVB, and tanning lamps. The problem with using these lamps is that they are associated with increased number of cancers and many other problems. They should not be on when you are in the grow room. Not much research has been conducted on using them to produce higher THC values. I will do a full report in a future issue.

 

[hazey grapes]

When you say "let everyone choose THEIR priorities"

does that include cash-crop afghan growers?

or should we still fight them to the death?

talk about loading a question...
if anyone had the PRIDE to go against the flow and supply superior product that people demand, then there wouldn't be an issue. sadly though, pretty much everyone in it for money has the attitude, "i'll grow what the fuck i want, and you'll deal with it!" and then, SOME of them have the nerve to take the money they get shorting THEIR customers and buying what they refuse to grow from growers with more love and pride for their gear. yeah... i've got a problem with that. nope... never killed a dealer, or really done much more to anyone than give them a bloody nose, but i HAVE told pretty much every dealer that refuses to sell me wharf i demand to go fuck themselves the second they act the fool or like they're doing me a favor making a quick buck off me with inferior product.

you seem to forget all of the times i've recommended northern lights #5 here to people looking to cash crap or other indices that suit goals like heroauna for potency seekers and hash berry/white castle for stank seekers. sure, i add my two cents that i don't like that stuff and put it down, but that's not the same as putting individuals down.

now for MY point of view. yes, i have issues with greed in general, but here because it affects the quality of the product. one troll here who also happens to be a moderator got an attitude with me saying he wasn't greedy, but then in the very next breath said he grows indices because they yield better, and absolutely couldn't see the irony in their own statement that boils down to "i grow indices because i make more money off them"

hey, grow whatever you want man. i'm more or less at peace with the fight i can't win against indices in this lifetime maybe, but i know what i like and grow it myself, and am happy to provide the service to others that want to get high and are in the same boat with no supply for THEIR demands. it's a rigged game. i'm trying to level the playing field as much as i can, and for that, i get a lot of hate.

yes, i have an attitude about it. i don't "play the game" like everyone else and my personality type doesn't believe in being diplomatic when i'm right. i come off as an asshole, and strike people's nerves because i insult the things they do or love, and they take it personally unlike me. if someone wants to hate sati vas, that's their biz. my life doesn't revolve around other people's opinions about my tastes, but when people MAKE IT PERSONAL, then i really act the asshole. but at least i freely admit it. i've got nothing to hide here and no hidden agendas.

i just believe in DEMOCRACY. the VOTES say "we want sativas!" (more than indices... i did a poll a couple years ago), but the people making money don't want to hear it. they are something like commie dictators saying "we don't care what YOU want! we want to make money, fuck you!" just like one member here's dealer YELLING at him for asking for sativas.

you care to justify THAT?

whatever happened to "the customer is always right?"

yeah... every man for himself & i got mine! the law of the jungle is in effect. that doesn't mean i gotta like it, or that my vote doesn't count.

 

[TonightYou]

Some one forgot to take their medication today.
crazy grapes, how can you hate a visible light spectrum? Do you realize how unhinged you sound? Why do you think anyone will take you seriously when you hate a wavelength?

While I respect DJ Short as a breeder, you've posted outdated information and if you even looked into the claim of increased UV, you'd find that almost all grow mh lights sold have a coating to prevent UV radiation as it is part of consumer protections. So now that moot, but hey you know best, not the plant or anything.

A poll is useless and if you think sativas are the best and want them, fucking grow them. Growers will grow what they want to for what ever reason they want to.

Eta the consumer is usually an asshole, not right. Just pander to them to get their money.

 

[hazey grapes]

how can you hate a visible light spectrum? Do you realize how unhinged you sound? Why do you think anyone will take you seriously when you hate a wavelength?

your reading comprehension really sucks, you know? you've never heard of people having a "favorite color"?!!! most people like red. i hate it and always have. that's my business and who the eft do you think YOU are being taste patrol? are you some kind of fascist? like i said too. i don't like working under sodium because it LITERALLY gives me a headache and makes me feel ill. none of that really matters anyways though. halides simply make better buds. now if you want to keep acting the fool, go argue that point with DJ shorts. i ain't no DJ shorts, and neither are you junior.

you don't seem to have much of an understanding about coatings either. they don't block ALL UV einstein! they just LIMIT IT to safe levels. UV radiation comes in three bands from 400nm down to 100nm http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultraviolet and if you look at this spectrum for a UV bulb, you can see that there is in fact output through much of that range

and here's another spectrum that shows A LOT of output at 400nm

you make it so easy trolls. you keep running your mouth without knowing WTF you're talking about, and i've got to hurt you with facts.

OK... one MORE MH spectrum that shows UV

that ought to shut you up, but it won't.

 

[TonightYou]

Well a.) you don't grow at all anyway, and last time weren't your party cups cfl?
b.) having a favorite color and despising light is pretty fuckin weird, so stay crazy.
c.) its called the placebo, but keeping blaming a harmless light specturm. you remind me of idiots who blame wifi for headaches, know nothing crazy people.

 

[TonightYou]

Hardly, Most posts you make a fool of yourself.

Migranes are not the run of the mill headache, but keep screaming at the sun and lights you view as hateful and violent.

 

[hazey grapes]

had you taken any art courses, you would have known about the psychological effects colors have on people. yellow in particular is a color that induces stress and anxiety, probably because it is nature's "warning color" whereas PINK is a relaxing color, probably because it simulates the safety of the womb. i clearly remember making a note in my notebook... "don't put babies in yellow rooms"

you get proven wrong, and then you go and try and twist the facts until you have some semblance of being right when you aren't. sodium bulbs make me feel ill. this is a FACT. just as the quote i posted states... putting people in a single spectrum environment can cause ill affects. you've apparently never heard of seasonal affective disorder, also known as SAD either apparently. light has a MAJOR imp[act on health and stress, especially when sleeping when even small amounts can cause restlessness and poor sleep.

any other facts you care to dispute so i can keep taking pics of you with your foot in your mouth? i'm starting to enjoy this! you're making my day!

 

[hazey grapes]

just found THIS resource changing a couple keywords and looking for these needles in a haystack...
http://psychology.about.com/od/sensationandperception/a/colorpsych.htm

Do you feel anxious in a yellow room?

Does the color blue make you feel calm and relaxed? Artists and interior designers have long understood how color can dramatically affect moods, feelings, and emotions. It is a powerful communication tool and can be used to signal action, influence mood, and cause physiological reactions. Certain colors have been associated with increased blood pressure, increased metabolism, and eyestrain.

"Given the prevalence of color, one would expect color psychology to be a well-developed area," note researchers Andrew Elliot and Markus Maier. "Surprisingly, little theoretical or empirical work has been conducted to date on the influence of color on psychological functioning, and the work that has been done has been driven mostly by practical concerns, not scientific rigor."
Despite the general lack of research in this area, the concept of color psychology has become a hot topic in marketing, art, design, and other areas. Much of the evidence in this emerging area is anecdotal at best, but researchers and experts have made a few important discoveries and observations about the psychology of color and the effect it has on moods, feelings, and behaviors.
Of course, your feelings about color are often deeply personal and rooted in your own experience or culture. For example, while the color white is used in many Western countries to represent purity and innocence, it is seen as a symbol of mourning in many Eastern countries.
Why is color such a powerful force in our lives? What effects can it have on our bodies and minds? Continue reading to further explore the history of color including how it's used, the effects it may have, and some of the most recent research on color psychology.


[h=3]The Psychological Effects of Color[/h]While perceptions of color are somewhat subjective, there are some color effects that have universal meaning. Colors in the red area of the color spectrum are known as warm colors and include red, orange and yellow. These warm colors evoke emotions ranging from feelings of warmth and comfort to feelings of anger and hostility.
Colors on the blue side of the spectrum are known as cool colors and include blue, purple and green. These colors are often described as calm, but can also call to mind feelings of sadness or indifference.

hey! i just learned something new! i guess i like cool colors best because i'm a naturally indifferent person with a low patience threshold for hostility. hmmm... maybe that's why i have such deep seated issues with trolls

 

[booms111]

All I can add to this thread is Metal Halides DO NOT MAKE BETTER BUDS THEN HPS! How do i know, well my breeding room has Metal Halides only in it and those buds even before they ever see any pollen dont ever look like the buds under the HPS's. They just dont produce the same trichomes or same girth/size under MH's. Hazey you should switch to LEDs if your into the absolute color spectrums.

 

[TonightYou]

Dude I minored in psychology which is/was primarily a bunch of pseudo/soft science. More than half the shit psychology puts out can't fit the scientific process and is simply conclusions based on observations, but you'd that if you we're one credit away from a double major. Shit just look at the nonsense you wrote about pink.

Its okay crazy grapes, its not your fault we as a society decided to cut funding for mental health care during the Reagan years. By default crazy doesnt recognize crazy.

 

[TonightYou]

All I can add to this thread is Metal Halides DO NOT MAKE BETTER BUDS THEN HPS! How do i know, well my breeding room has Metal Halides only in it and those buds even before they ever see any pollen dont ever look like the buds under the HPS's. They just dont produce the same trichomes or same girth/size under MH's. Hazey you should switch to LEDs if your into the absolute color spectrums.

See you know what's up. Plants require different wavelengths during different stages. shhhh don't tell crazy.

 

[hazey grapes]

you're probably growing afghani dominants then and not fruity strains or sativas. DJ shorts himself states that halides DO affect phono expression, another source i read that i couldn't find confirmed that regarding sati vas where many of the sat growers in that forum, possibly ICmag, were favoring them, and my own experience bears that out. my super cali haze freebie tasted like straight up grape juice under my halide (a point of contention among doubtful trolls) and my joey weed C99s had a slightly grape fruity flavor too, but the cross of the two just tasted like generic fruit under my sodium, and really no different than a bunch of hazes, jacks and thais that all just tasted "fruity".

man you trolls like to waste my time doing the homework you're too lazy to for yourself.

once more... from grandmaster DJ shorts himself (a very well respected breeder if you do your homework)

Sometimes the aroma is no better than a strong chemical/astringent odor and flavor, especially those under High Pressure Sodium light systems. The finer berry flavors tend to favor more distance from the bulb, and will manifest more strongly under High Ultraviolet Metal Halide light systems, especially during the latter stages of flowering.

but you're more concerned with trying to discredit everything i say than share facts with everyone else, much like fox new fidgets using the GOPAC technique... "go negative, go early", and anyone who's well tread KNOWS that fox news sued jane akre for the RIGHT TO LIE, and sadly actually won their case.

why is attacking me more important to you than facts and truths? REALLY?

what has the truth ever done to hurt you?

 

[TonightYou]

well most of what I have now are sativa hybrids with a few leaving indica and a single Afghan... what is in your garden? Oh wait, you don't have one and don't grow!

As I said I respect DJ Short and have previously read most of his writings. There is a reason hps are used in single light setups during flower. Its due to the need for more red wavelength. But you can go argue with the plant over it's desired wavelength

Lets see, no citations, no controls, just feelings, NOT SCIENCE!

 

[Amos Otis]

well most of what I have now are sativa hybrids with a few leaving indica and a single Afghan... what is in your garden? Oh wait, you don't have one and don't grow!

Really ?? ??