10 Plant Micro Grow 12/12 From Seed (150w HPS)

xebeche

xebeche

Well-Known Member
Things are lookin good here, Kap10. I've run as many as ten plants under my 150w hps...probly the most I'd ever run under that one lamp, although you MIGHT be able to do a few more if u do 12/12 from seed or rooted clone - but the 150w hps does have a limited footprint, so your plants around the outside of the optimal light zone would likely not get enough light if u try running a dozen or more. Might be a good investment to upgrade to a 250w (or 400w) if you find that you really wanna increase your overall yields in the future (as long as ur cab/setup can accommodate the extra heat from a bigger lamp). Since the digital ballasts seem to be more popular these days, there are some pretty good deals to be found on 250w & 400w fixtures with magnetic ballasts which will work with CMH bulbs as well.
 
KawiZZR

KawiZZR

Active Member
xebeche, how would you anticipate temps to change if went from an enclosed ballast 150w hps to a remote ballast 250w cmh? Thought about trying it before but worried temps would get even higher if did this and already average 84-86F.
 
xebeche

xebeche

Well-Known Member
KawiZZR said:
xebeche, how would you anticipate temps to change if went from an enclosed ballast 150w hps to a remote ballast 250w cmh? Thought about trying it before but worried temps would get even higher if did this and already average 84-86F.
Click to expand...
Well, that is a very good question. TBH I don't know, since I've yet to set up my CMH (which would have the ballast remotely located). If I had to guess, I'd say about the same...but that's just a guess. One thing's for sure, the enclosed ballast on my 150w SunSystem hood does seem to generate quite a bit of heat (which is why I've already taken one apart, with the intention of using just the hood and socket assembly and modifying the hood to accommodate air-cooling). Maybe I should try first without the air-cooling modification? That would be a lot easier for me, since cutting the holes in the steel hood enclosure hasn't turned out to be all that easy.

When I lived in the northeast US, I found that the heat generated by the enclosed ballast actually helped keep the temps up during most of the year when outside temps weren't all that warm. It was only once in the summer (when I didn't have central AC) that my plants got a little stressed. However, now that I'm in socal, the temps don't get low enough for the enclosed-ballast to provide any real advantage, so I intend to move the ballasts out of both of my fixtures permanently. Maybe I'll try running one of 'em without poking any holes for air-cooling the fixture (and just cool the entire cab instead, with one fan+scrubber). I'm pretty sure that would work really well with the 150w lamp and a 2x2x4 cab, but I don't have a good feel yet for the heat generated by a 250w CMH bulb. Might be just fine. Supposedly, CMH bulbs run cooler than HPS, so a 250w CMH would seem to be a better option overall for a grow cab of this size.

I guess in the end, there' really only one way to find out, and that's to try it. It's actually pretty easy to move the ballasts out of these enclosed fixtures. I've spent a LOT more time trying to cut 'em down to a smaller size and adapt 'em for air-cooling. Probly coulda built a cool-tube set-up in less time. If you already have a 250w ballast that you plan to use, you could probly test it out by just disconnecting the internal (150w) ballast and rewiring the socket to the (remote) 250w ballast without actually removing the internal ballast. Then, if it turns out that the 250w bulb is too hot for your setup, you could just switch the wires back and keep using your 150w fixture until you can bump up your ventilation or whatever. Might be worth a try, since it would only involve removing a panel on the light fixture and doing a little re-wiring.
 
KawiZZR

KawiZZR

Active Member
xebeche said:
Well, that is a very good question. TBH I don't know, since I've yet to set up my CMH (which would have the ballast remotely located). If I had to guess, I'd say about the same...but that's just a guess. One thing's for sure, the enclosed ballast on my 150w SunSystem hood does seem to generate quite a bit of heat (which is why I've already taken one apart, with the intention of using just the hood and socket assembly and modifying the hood to accommodate air-cooling). Maybe I should try first without the air-cooling modification? That would be a lot easier for me, since cutting the holes in the steel hood enclosure hasn't turned out to be all that easy.

When I lived in the northeast US, I found that the heat generated by the enclosed ballast actually helped keep the temps up during most of the year when outside temps weren't all that warm. It was only once in the summer (when I didn't have central AC) that my plants got a little stressed. However, now that I'm in socal, the temps don't get low enough for the enclosed-ballast to provide any real advantage, so I intend to move the ballasts out of both of my fixtures permanently. Maybe I'll try running one of 'em without poking any holes for air-cooling the fixture (and just cool the entire cab instead, with one fan+scrubber). I'm pretty sure that would work really well with the 150w lamp and a 2x2x4 cab, but I don't have a good feel yet for the heat generated by a 250w CMH bulb. Might be just fine. Supposedly, CMH bulbs run cooler than HPS, so a 250w CMH would seem to be a better option overall for a grow cab of this size.

I guess in the end, there' really only one way to find out, and that's to try it. It's actually pretty easy to move the ballasts out of these enclosed fixtures. I've spent a LOT more time trying to cut 'em down to a smaller size and adapt 'em for air-cooling. Probly coulda built a cool-tube set-up in less time. If you already have a 250w ballast that you plan to use, you could probly test it out by just disconnecting the internal (150w) ballast and rewiring the socket to the (remote) 250w ballast without actually removing the internal ballast. Then, if it turns out that the 250w bulb is too hot for your setup, you could just switch the wires back and keep using your 150w fixture until you can bump up your ventilation or whatever. Might be worth a try, since it would only involve removing a panel on the light fixture and doing a little re-wiring.
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Sounds like a plan, I'll let you know if I decide to go this route and what the results I get are. I've currently trying to decide between sticking with my 150 hps, switching to a 150 cmh (so far only found ones that run on psmh ballasts), and switching to a 250 cmh remote ballast. If I were to remote the ballast from the sunsystem light how much of an impact would it have on temps? Even if the result is only a degree or two it might still be worthwhile for me to do. My area is only a bit bigger than yours, 28"x26"x 46", and so far I have no complaints over the production of the 150, but I'm always looking to switch it up a bit.
 
xebeche

xebeche

Well-Known Member
Well, I think "they" say that you should have a minimum of 50 watts/sq ft, so for a 24" x 24" area a 250w would be more than enough, but a 150w would come up short. Honestly, though, I've never had a problem using just the 150w over an area even larger than that. I only got a 250w lamp a few years ago...before that I used just the 150w hps and I always got a big enough harvest to last until the next run. Now, when I did use the 250w, I got more than enough. So...I could get away with growing enough, but I think MORE than enough is better :mrgreen: especially considering the amount of time and effort that goes into each grow cycle.

I do think if you move the ballast out of your cab that will help a lot. I would bet that you could get your temps down to 80 deg F (or lower) that way. The hps lamps def give off some heat by themselves, but having that ballast + enclosure in there def doesn't help.

What kind of ventilation setup do you have in place now? I've always used my hps fixtures in closets...and almost always with at least a vent hole on the ceiling for exhausting warm air. Using 'em in a shorter, narrower area like a cabinet requires more effort to keep the temps down... a decent exhaust fan + carbon scrubber, at least.
 
KawiZZR

KawiZZR

Active Member
Yeah I'm not too worried about the yield with the 150, got over 2 zips from one plant taking up 18x16 last time and going to try for 4+ this round. For exhaust I'm currently using a 6" axial fan but with a 5" exhaust hole... lol I know it sounds dumb but its working out for now and once I get my lazy butt to the hardware store I'm getting a 6" hole saw to correct that issue. That by itself should drop my temps by a bit as more air will be going through. After that I need to add a carbon filter though, which will push the temps back up. Since I've just started my veg for this round there's no noticeable smell yet so I'm not too worried about getting things done quickly, which is part of my problem. Also planning to add two pc fans for intake instead of just passive like I have it now, I think the increased air circulation will help a bit.
 
del66666

del66666

Well-Known Member
KawiZZR said:
xebeche, how would you anticipate temps to change if went from an enclosed ballast 150w hps to a remote ballast 250w cmh? Thought about trying it before but worried temps would get even higher if did this and already average 84-86F.
Click to expand...
better off with seperate ballast, 250 aint that hot............even a 400 aint that bad........go digi not mag for safety sake............i got a 400 and 600 in a cab 1.2m x 1m x 1.4 hi, still not to hot...........
 
KawiZZR

KawiZZR

Active Member
del66666 said:
better off with seperate ballast, 250 aint that hot............even a 400 aint that bad........go digi not mag for safety sake............i got a 400 and 600 in a cab 1.2m x 1m x 1.4 hi, still not to hot...........
Click to expand...
I would, but cmh can't run on most digital ballasts, the retro hps ones need good magnetic ballasts to work. I think I'm just gonna stick with my 150 for now, remote the ballast though. I'll probably look into getting a bigger cab after this grow though, I'd like to be able to run comparisons or have enough space for staggered harvests eventually.
 
Kap10Kush

Kap10Kush

Member
sour kush is about 25% cloudy trichs so i will probably let it go another week, the purple is making it look more incredible by the day
 
Kap10Kush

Kap10Kush

Member
so for the next run i know my capacity is 8 flowering so i think
4 fem super skunk
1 fem exodus cheese
1 fem super bud
so thats six spots so i will probably germ 3 aurora indica reg seeds and hope i get two females to make it eight if they all germinate and what not
 
KawiZZR

KawiZZR

Active Member
Sounds like a good plan, are you concerned at all about them growing to different heights/widths? Make sure to pick strains that will grow similarly so you don't end up with one that wants to be 2 ft taller than the rest. What's your expected total yield from this round?
 
Kap10Kush

Kap10Kush

Member
thats a good thought, one of my skunk kids died this morning and one of its seeds didnt germ, so i will keep that in mind when i redo the lineup to accomodate the losses

Dates
1 DNA Fem Sour Kush- Day 82
1 Dinafem Fem Cali Hash Plant- Day 77
2 Nirvana Aurora Indicas- Day 76
1 Serious Seeds Fem Chronic- Day 72

Expected Yields:
1 DNA Fem Sour Kush- 5g
1 Dinafem Fem Cali Hash Plant- 4g
2 Nirvana Aurora Indicas- 2g (each)
1 Serious Seeds Fem Chronic- 3g

Although, i still believe my goals at the beginning of this round of plants is still very ascertainable (7g a plant at least). I think there were a number of things that may have led to a poor yield.
First the miracle grow soil is very poor. i had underestimated this in the beginning but it was the difference maker for sure. Because there was already "organic nutrients to feed for up to two months" in Miracle Grow Organic Soil®, and i fed on top of that, i think many of my plants locked out about half way through the grow and couldn't bounce back. It had horrible water retention as the grow went on and almost turned to a clayish substance in the bottom. The combo of this and a non-reliable feeding schedule must have had a great impact.
In the beginning i considered using any techniques on the plants like scrog, lst, hst, ect. but i thought because it's life was shorter it wouldn't respond well. This is probably true with certain strains but with the next round of plants i am for sure lollipopping all of them. the bottom 2 nodes produce little to no bud and the plants i sampled off even late in flowering showed improvement in the successive node.

watt improvement, light efficiency, and stretching are other things i hope to address the next round
:leaf:
 
KawiZZR

KawiZZR

Active Member
Sorry to hear about the skunks man, hopefully your other beans do better. While it sucks that you had so many things negatively effect this grow, just think about it as you got the same experience in one grow as some people get in 4 or 5. You've got a lot of things you know you want to improve and that alone should help you to get at least 7g a plant next round. I wouldn't be surprised if you actually ended up with closer to 10g or more per plant next round.

+rep for sticking it out and going for a second grow
 
xebeche

xebeche

Well-Known Member
Hmmm...I thought for sure you'd get more than a half zip from those plants with the 150w hps, Kap10. Maybe it really is better to give these indica-dom strains a little veg time. Given your space limitations, though, I guess it's not really feasible. Combination of small pots + no veg time + less than two feet of headroom, I suppose. And sub-optimal mg soil mixture probably didn't help, either. Still, you got some homegrown to smoke now, so +rep for a successful harvest.

I would recommend trying a good soil mix next time around. I use roots organic (+ extra perlite), but there are lots of others available. If there's a hydro store anywhere near you, you might find some there (can be bought online, of course, but the shipping charges are often pretty steep). A local nursery might have it...or some good alternatives at least. Probly want to add some extra perlite to whatever you get, for better drainage and aeration.

Other than that, I guess making a taller box would be my next suggestion....an extra foot or two of headroom can make a huge difference, since you could afford to veg 'em for a while before 12/12. I really think some strains just need a few weeks of veg time at least (if you wanna get 7g or more from each plant). To do that in the small cab you're using now would require fewer plants and some topping and/or lst.
 
KawiZZR

KawiZZR

Active Member
xebeche said:
Hmmm...I thought for sure you'd get more than a half zip from those plants with the 150w hps, Kap10. Maybe it really is better to give these indica-dom strains a little veg time. Given your space limitations, though, I guess it's not really feasible. Combination of small pots + no veg time + less than two feet of headroom, I suppose. And sub-optimal mg soil mixture probably didn't help, either. Still, you got some homegrown to smoke now, so +rep for a successful harvest.

I would recommend trying a good soil mix next time around. I use roots organic (+ extra perlite), but there are lots of others available. If there's a hydro store anywhere near you, you might find some there (can be bought online, of course, but the shipping charges are often pretty steep). A local nursery might have it...or some good alternatives at least. Probly want to add some extra perlite to whatever you get, for better drainage and aeration.

Other than that, I guess making a taller box would be my next suggestion....an extra foot or two of headroom can make a huge difference, since you could afford to veg 'em for a while before 12/12. I really think some strains just need a few weeks of veg time at least (if you wanna get 7g or more from each plant). To do that in the small cab you're using now would require fewer plants and some topping and/or lst.
Click to expand...
With a 150 and doing 12/12 from seed over a half o per plant is a great goal, especially running eight at a time, but will probably take more than one more grow to dial it in correctly. Everything you suggested would help significantly towards that, but I'd still expect two or three more grows before that much could be pulled consistently. I rarely see anyone harvesting .75gpw (4oz) or more with only a 150, once he gets that without any veg time I'll be very impressed.
 
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