5th Grow, Same Problems. Advice?
- Thread starter bomb hills
- Start date
Phaeton
Active Member
Almost every thread on yellow leaves during flower seems to have an HPS. Hmmm, when I did my HPS testing. The HPS buds always went yellow by the third week. It took twice the wattage of supplemental MH to stop this, one to one if a blue aquarium HID was used.
I won't go too tech as everyone swears by HPS it seems (not true, just seems that way), but HPS has no blue.
Half of every chlorophyll molecule uses blue. When the molecule is made it uses blue, this cannot be left out. If the blue end is not used the chlorophyll molecules tends to breakup earlier. Yellow leaves.
More fixes for this are out there than I have fingers and toes, to keep the chlorophyll alive. But when only half the molecule is flexing the chlorophyll is not as durable. More prone to die under stress, stress it would normally ignore.
Other stuff may come into play, but my experience shows 90% of yellowing during bud is caused by lighting.
I won't go too tech as everyone swears by HPS it seems (not true, just seems that way), but HPS has no blue.
Half of every chlorophyll molecule uses blue. When the molecule is made it uses blue, this cannot be left out. If the blue end is not used the chlorophyll molecules tends to breakup earlier. Yellow leaves.
More fixes for this are out there than I have fingers and toes, to keep the chlorophyll alive. But when only half the molecule is flexing the chlorophyll is not as durable. More prone to die under stress, stress it would normally ignore.
Other stuff may come into play, but my experience shows 90% of yellowing during bud is caused by lighting.
bomb hills
Well-Known Member
UPDATE TIMEIt's been about 16 days of 12/12 now and little hair balls are growing well. The problems I've been having haven't really progressed (fingers crossed). I did notice a few leaves cupping so didn't increase the strength of the nutrient solution. Maybe the cupping was due to the foliar feed from a few days ago?
Watered/feed last night. Used 15ml Grow, 5ml Bloom, 10ml Calplex, 10ml Micro Blast, 10ml Extreme Serine. ppm = 910 and the ph = 6.5
The runoff was what surprised me, ph = 5.7 and the ppm = 1800. I tested the soil again and it reads a ph of 6-7, should the runoff's low ph or high ppm be a concern?
Overall things look pretty good; I am cautious however, because I have had things go downhill from here pretty quickly. Many thanks to all who have added their advice to this thread!
Someguy15
Well-Known Member
I'm a bit confused, are these nutes your using synthetic or organic? If the are organic, stop reading EC right now... it works totally diff in organics. All about your microbe population that can break that shit down for you plants to actually eat. Organic is typically a little more forgiving on the PH of things also. Now if your using organic nutes mixed with synthetics it can be confusing. Synthetics typically kill beneficial bacterias so if your mainly using organics this could very will be your problem. With your runoff ph so low, I would guess the medium PH is around 5...much too low. Very common in soil and it means you need more lime mixed in UPFRONT to help buffer it. IMO lime added as a top dressing doesn't work with a shit...I tried lol. I would throw your PH tester away if it's one of those 20 dollar POS ones, they are known for ruining plants. If you want a real meter that will actually work check out the Bluelab soil meter, a little pricey, but last meter you will ever need if you plan to keep using soil. In terms of correction, I think you have plenty of nutes, it's just your super low ph locking them out more then likely. Take a sample of the soil and have it tested at your local shop if you can't afford a nice meter right now, I find most of them are willing to help you out a little as long as u don't ask too many favors. If you comfirm the PH as low, I would rectify by watering with ph about 7 or 7.5 for a bit until you runoff is at least reading 6...depends on the ph of the input water obviously, but best you can do is average the 2 together to guess your medium ph.
IE put ph 8 in, 5 comes out, your medium ph is probably 3.5 (8-5=3 so half 3 is 1.5...5-1.5 = 3.5) if you can follow that very rough math. That also assumes the same vol of water in the medium and your watering can, which is also not true. In this case I would guess the PH is prob around 4 in the medium.
View attachment 1873946
IE put ph 8 in, 5 comes out, your medium ph is probably 3.5 (8-5=3 so half 3 is 1.5...5-1.5 = 3.5) if you can follow that very rough math. That also assumes the same vol of water in the medium and your watering can, which is also not true. In this case I would guess the PH is prob around 4 in the medium.
View attachment 1873946
Total Head
Well-Known Member
i can't believe it took 18 posts before someone pointed this out. your soil is clearly incapable of buffering itself against whatever you're using. don't blame the nutes or anything else. on future grows mix some dolomite in before planting. it has all the mag and calcium you should need and it will stop the ph from dropping to a range where the plant suffers.
for the time being though, since your plants are established already, i would loosen up the top couple inches of soil (let it dry a bit if you can), sprinkle enough lime to where the soil is fairly covered, "till" it in a bit. then, mix 1 tablespoon or less of liquid lime per gallon of water, and water that bitch. it might take a week or so to adjust itself but you should be able to prevent further yellowing from a mag def.
also, without being familiar with that strain or the nutes you use, i should point out that a lot of strains like to still get the "grow" formula for the first couple weeks of bloom otherwise the foliage dies before they finish. maybe on your next go you could try giving them more of a grow based formula early in bloom. good luck.
slonez47
Active Member
It looks like a K def to me. That would make sense during flowering. I use RO products myself at full strength.What up fellow rollers? This is about my 5th round of flowering and every time I start to loose leaves round week 2. I have talked about this in other threads before but now I got some pictures to help. Here is my set up
5 Gal Pots with Root Organics Soil (not 707)
600 W HPS
Root Organics Nutrients
Its been 14 days of 12/12 now and the bottom leaves started to go first.
About 7 days into flower I did a water/feed with: (all per gal)
15ml RO Grow
15ml RO Extreame Serine
15ml RO Trinity
10ml Calplex
5ml Earth Juice Micro Blast
5ml Molasses
After mixing that all up and getting the ph to 6.5 I found the ppm to be around 1500. I then cut the mixture 50/50 and got 850 ppm.
I have been adding 2 tsp of Epsom salt to the watering between feedings.
Last night I did a foliar feed of Extreme Serine, Micro Blast, and Calplex. Mixed 1.25ml of each ingredient into 4 cups water.
View attachment 1870631
View attachment 1870632View attachment 1870633View attachment 1870634View attachment 1870631View attachment 1870635View attachment 1870636
I would greatly appreciate any recommendations! (+ Rep)
slonez47
Active Member
I worried about the runoff and nute PH but with RO the PH will work low like that. I sweated about pouring acid on my girls, but after talking with someone I tried it with one and no problem. RO soil is closer to hydro than soil. I established the bennies in my soil first by adding OregonismXL and feeding with Trinity. When they're established the PH seems to take care of itself.
It's been about 16 days of 12/12 now and little hair balls are growing well. The problems I've been having haven't really progressed (fingers crossed). I did notice a few leaves cupping so didn't increase the strength of the nutrient solution. Maybe the cupping was due to the foliar feed from a few days ago?
Watered/feed last night. Used 15ml Grow, 5ml Bloom, 10ml Calplex, 10ml Micro Blast, 10ml Extreme Serine. ppm = 910 and the ph = 6.5
The runoff was what surprised me, ph = 5.7 and the ppm = 1800. I tested the soil again and it reads a ph of 6-7, should the runoff's low ph or high ppm be a concern?
Overall things look pretty good; I am cautious however, because I have had things go downhill from here pretty quickly. Many thanks to all who have added their advice to this thread!
slonez47
Active Member
I use an enhanced spectrum 95,000 lumen HPS bulb on my girls with a 6500k 125watt CFL, (true wattage not equiv.) for side lighting and mixed kelvin ratings and no problems.
slonez47
Active Member
I'd up the Bloom my friend. There's your K def.
It's been about 16 days of 12/12 now and little hair balls are growing well. The problems I've been having haven't really progressed (fingers crossed). I did notice a few leaves cupping so didn't increase the strength of the nutrient solution. Maybe the cupping was due to the foliar feed from a few days ago?
Watered/feed last night. Used 15ml Grow, 5ml Bloom, 10ml Calplex, 10ml Micro Blast, 10ml Extreme Serine. ppm = 910 and the ph = 6.5
The runoff was what surprised me, ph = 5.7 and the ppm = 1800. I tested the soil again and it reads a ph of 6-7, should the runoff's low ph or high ppm be a concern?
Overall things look pretty good; I am cautious however, because I have had things go downhill from here pretty quickly. Many thanks to all who have added their advice to this thread!
slonez47
Active Member
I use RO potting soil without dolomite lime and no problems.
sso
Well-Known Member
one of my strains, does this, loses all leaves, gets ok buds though.
it Does perform better under fluo´s, this strain. (looks better, smells better, But smaller buds)
but my other 2 strains, keep their green leaves all thru out.
all strains under 600w of hps. (i have run the yellow leaves strain under fluo though, so i know the 600w hps is probably too much for it, but the other strains love it)
Total Head
Well-Known Member
my tap is crap. i can smell it across the room. if RO was less expensive i'd go for it. i don't really need to if i use the lime, though. my water's not THAT bad, but i do need the lime.
Blunt Master Flex
Active Member
I don't even get lockouts in coco and I have literally gone entire harvests without actually checking my PH. I add nutrients, then adjust PH to what I think is about 5.8 without actually checking the PH about 90% of the time and when I do check the PH it's usually within .3 of 5.8 Never had a lockout.
If soil growers can tell you that this is in fact a lockout that keeps occurring (at the same time for some reason?), then PH is much more of a pain in the ass in soil compared to coco.
If soil growers can tell you that this is in fact a lockout that keeps occurring (at the same time for some reason?), then PH is much more of a pain in the ass in soil compared to coco.