infinitescrog
Active Member
Yea you can't just take the heat out of the air, and make it magically disappear. There has to be a vent to the outside 
600W Dwc Discrete Cabinet Scrog - 2nd Run
- Thread starter phenob
- Start date
phenob
Active Member
yeah let's hope that's the dumbest thing i do this week. .
regardless, this AC is just too wimpy to fight off this room at 80f+. my idea now is to pull air into the chamber through the AC unit. basically leaving the AC permanently ducted to the chamber intake. AC will turn on when the exhaust fan does, with both hooked up to the EVC-1. This way I should be able to reasonably expect the exhaust cycle to bring temps down pretty much wherever i want them. just a matter of how frequently the cycle needs to run. and i can always put the AC on a thermostat of some sort so that when EVC-1 turns it on it will first check to see if the room is already cool enough.
i really did not anticipate the res temp rising so rapidly. had to dump ice in there to bring it back from 73f. we may need to get more creative with the res to accomodate CO2 temps.
other nagging problem now is that i'd like to run the exhaust non-stop during nighttime hours. this really helps keep the smell down, and with my madly overgrown scrog screen i'd rather have airflow while the plants are prespiring. i just don't have the equipment to handle this logic. i need more control. dammit i need a PC interface and a whole lot of coffee. it would take hundreds of dollars in equipment to handle just a few basic if this then thats. there has to be a way to interface with a computer for less than a couple grand. /endrant
took the CO2 reg back to the shop with a wtf. Not only the crazy noise, but checking it today the psi would not adjust over 20. took it in, and of course it behaved perfectly at the shop so they didn't want to take the return. it's back and installed again, and still behaving perfectly. it hasn't made a peep since returning. no idea wtf the issue is/was/will be, but if it starts making that noise again i'm going to video cam it with my phone so I can show the shop guys that i'm really not retarded. mostly anyway.
side note: sorry readers if lack of capitalization is driving you nuts. i type 18 hours a day and, by the time im typing here, my hands are tired and sacrifices simply must be made. i do not have carpal tunnel, and i'll be damned if i'm going to.
regardless, this AC is just too wimpy to fight off this room at 80f+. my idea now is to pull air into the chamber through the AC unit. basically leaving the AC permanently ducted to the chamber intake. AC will turn on when the exhaust fan does, with both hooked up to the EVC-1. This way I should be able to reasonably expect the exhaust cycle to bring temps down pretty much wherever i want them. just a matter of how frequently the cycle needs to run. and i can always put the AC on a thermostat of some sort so that when EVC-1 turns it on it will first check to see if the room is already cool enough.
i really did not anticipate the res temp rising so rapidly. had to dump ice in there to bring it back from 73f. we may need to get more creative with the res to accomodate CO2 temps.
other nagging problem now is that i'd like to run the exhaust non-stop during nighttime hours. this really helps keep the smell down, and with my madly overgrown scrog screen i'd rather have airflow while the plants are prespiring. i just don't have the equipment to handle this logic. i need more control. dammit i need a PC interface and a whole lot of coffee. it would take hundreds of dollars in equipment to handle just a few basic if this then thats. there has to be a way to interface with a computer for less than a couple grand. /endrant
took the CO2 reg back to the shop with a wtf. Not only the crazy noise, but checking it today the psi would not adjust over 20. took it in, and of course it behaved perfectly at the shop so they didn't want to take the return. it's back and installed again, and still behaving perfectly. it hasn't made a peep since returning. no idea wtf the issue is/was/will be, but if it starts making that noise again i'm going to video cam it with my phone so I can show the shop guys that i'm really not retarded. mostly anyway.
side note: sorry readers if lack of capitalization is driving you nuts. i type 18 hours a day and, by the time im typing here, my hands are tired and sacrifices simply must be made. i do not have carpal tunnel, and i'll be damned if i'm going to.
phenob
Active Member
Jozikins
Well-Known Member
Dude, I have been trying so hard to give you advice, but rollitup keeps fucking me over! I am almost done, have a second thought, and press backspace, and the fucking thing sends me back a page and loses everything I just typed.
I get ridiculously intricate and always do it late as fuck right before bed, so it fucking kills me to see it all get deleted. I wonder if I can just press undo next time. Fuck. I will get to you on all this tomorrow.
What I can say is that you need to simplify what you are doing. You need to clear your head, stand back, and depersonalize. Think outside the box, no pun intended. Things are starting to get complex for you, and at the moment you are thinking of more complex ideas to simplify everything... in a very complex way. You need to make simple solution with easy thinking. You shouldn't be tossing in your sleep over it, I know I do sometimes. I actually woke up last week with chest pains. Time to go to the doctor. Fuuuu.....
But this is why I have 2 different medical plans.
The Karate Kid reference killed me, were you saving that link for a special occasion?
I get ridiculously intricate and always do it late as fuck right before bed, so it fucking kills me to see it all get deleted. I wonder if I can just press undo next time. Fuck. I will get to you on all this tomorrow.
What I can say is that you need to simplify what you are doing. You need to clear your head, stand back, and depersonalize. Think outside the box, no pun intended. Things are starting to get complex for you, and at the moment you are thinking of more complex ideas to simplify everything... in a very complex way. You need to make simple solution with easy thinking. You shouldn't be tossing in your sleep over it, I know I do sometimes. I actually woke up last week with chest pains. Time to go to the doctor. Fuuuu.....
But this is why I have 2 different medical plans.
The Karate Kid reference killed me, were you saving that link for a special occasion?
phenob
Active Member
nothing complex about it. AC into the cab is next to useless. I must control the room temp. All other variables trace back to this. As long as the room is 85f nothing is going to compute correctly. After the last two days of work, I seriously doubt the room temp can be tamed without a few thousand dollars in improvements, namely real insulation and central air.
The AC unit wasn't venting right through the CAN filter flange, so I pulled that off and instead used a $10 8" vent flashing from home freakin depot. Works better now, but still .. the unit just doesn't have the balls to really do much. And when it does start to put out cool air (not cold, cool), it can't do it for more than 3 or 4 minutes without going into a shutdown and defrost or cool down cycle. Half the time it takes 3 minutes to get going anyway, so when it's turned on for the cab exhaust cycle it never actually makes cold air before the cycle is complete, which is the definition of completely useless.
The CO2 reg hasn't made that horrible noise again. Trouble now is that every time it's turned on the flowmeter resets to 2 or 3 times the flow that I need. Doesn't matter how many times it's adjusted, when it cycles off and on again, the flow is back over 1 CFH.
Meanwhile back on the ranch, the ph is at 5.0, the ppm is going up about .1 every 20 minutes, and the res temp is back to 71f.
what a fucking frustrating day in the garden.
The AC unit wasn't venting right through the CAN filter flange, so I pulled that off and instead used a $10 8" vent flashing from home freakin depot. Works better now, but still .. the unit just doesn't have the balls to really do much. And when it does start to put out cool air (not cold, cool), it can't do it for more than 3 or 4 minutes without going into a shutdown and defrost or cool down cycle. Half the time it takes 3 minutes to get going anyway, so when it's turned on for the cab exhaust cycle it never actually makes cold air before the cycle is complete, which is the definition of completely useless.
The CO2 reg hasn't made that horrible noise again. Trouble now is that every time it's turned on the flowmeter resets to 2 or 3 times the flow that I need. Doesn't matter how many times it's adjusted, when it cycles off and on again, the flow is back over 1 CFH.
Meanwhile back on the ranch, the ph is at 5.0, the ppm is going up about .1 every 20 minutes, and the res temp is back to 71f.
what a fucking frustrating day in the garden.
phenob
Active Member
what should my hard high temp limit be with CO2 at 1500ppm? I have read everywhere from 85 to 98. Opinons anyone?
i have been aiming for 83 - 89 but with room temp at 85 its going to be more like 88 - 94. This seems like a bad idea to me, but maybe I don't need to fight so hard against these temps?
i have been aiming for 83 - 89 but with room temp at 85 its going to be more like 88 - 94. This seems like a bad idea to me, but maybe I don't need to fight so hard against these temps?
phenob
Active Member
solved misbehaving CO2 reg flowmeter by adjusting it differently. Noticed that if i pressed against the adjustment knob from the sides the flow would spike around like crazy. By holding pressure a little to the left on the knob while adjusting I've been able to get the thing to hold CFH.
one little victory!
one little victory!
phenob
Active Member
new AC unit - soleus 12k BTU this time. MUCH better .. just standing it in the room and pointing it vaguely at the cab is holding nighttime temp under 79 and room under 80. would be 83+ in both without it.
that windchaser sc7 is crap for anything but maybe a closet. will probably leave it hooked up to the cab air intake. if the circuit will safely handle it, running it on the exhaust cycle reduces the cycle time to about a minute and a half, allowing for more CO2 injection time with exhaust off.
that windchaser sc7 is crap for anything but maybe a closet. will probably leave it hooked up to the cab air intake. if the circuit will safely handle it, running it on the exhaust cycle reduces the cycle time to about a minute and a half, allowing for more CO2 injection time with exhaust off.
phenob
Active Member
as anticipated, even moderate control over the outside room temp makes all the difference. room temp stable at 75, cab cycling now between 83 - 88 in about 9 minutes.
found critters again on those og clones so they got the azamax treatment. went to pick up one of them, looking for crawlers, and found tiny little fuckingn spiders all over my fingers! transparent and tiny as could be. didnt look at all like mites but could be i suppose. i have seen zero sign of any webbing. either way, they got azamaxed at 2.5ml/cup dilution.
note on the azamax. my hydro shop had a very small bottle back behind the counter for about $25. this is way better than buying the $80 big one. this 4oz bottle at 1 - 4ml per cup will last me a lifetime. heh i hope!
also convinced now these are not whitefly anythings. guessing aphids. or thats what i was guessing until i found the little freaky spider things all up in my business.
note ive tossed one, the smaller one, that couldn't hang with the safer soap treatment. it didnt like the soap at all and ended up developing root rot in the party cup. once the infestation is under control they get bigger housing asap.
found critters again on those og clones so they got the azamax treatment. went to pick up one of them, looking for crawlers, and found tiny little fuckingn spiders all over my fingers! transparent and tiny as could be. didnt look at all like mites but could be i suppose. i have seen zero sign of any webbing. either way, they got azamaxed at 2.5ml/cup dilution.
note on the azamax. my hydro shop had a very small bottle back behind the counter for about $25. this is way better than buying the $80 big one. this 4oz bottle at 1 - 4ml per cup will last me a lifetime. heh i hope!
also convinced now these are not whitefly anythings. guessing aphids. or thats what i was guessing until i found the little freaky spider things all up in my business.
note ive tossed one, the smaller one, that couldn't hang with the safer soap treatment. it didnt like the soap at all and ended up developing root rot in the party cup. once the infestation is under control they get bigger housing asap.
oOBe RyeOo
Active Member
Gotta sub to this before I forget. I found your thread on my phone then forgot to look it up on my comp. Searched it the other day but forgot to sub.
Those nugs from your last grow were huge!
Those nugs from your last grow were huge!
Jozikins
Well-Known Member
AN needs to stop torturing everyone, I can't wait, and I hate AN and do not use them at all... But I just want to see it. So bummed to hear about the aphids. Aphids are stupid little bastards and are not hard to control. I have no bugs over here on my end, I found a fungus gnat 2 days ago, but I've been spraying them down and using the DE on all the clones that didn't have it. I got the little 25 dollar bottle too, I bought it almost last year and have used about a 1/5 of it.
By the way, I love hear that you are dropping your PPM's, I think you and my friend are going to experience similar results. He was using 1600ppm to start flower and bring them up to 1900 or more for the end of flowering, they just recently dropped it down and haven't finished another crop yet, but they look so much better.
The Blue Dream is a true champ btw, I started LST on it 2 days ago and it's already a beast ready for a 4 gal bucket.
By the way, I love hear that you are dropping your PPM's, I think you and my friend are going to experience similar results. He was using 1600ppm to start flower and bring them up to 1900 or more for the end of flowering, they just recently dropped it down and haven't finished another crop yet, but they look so much better.
The Blue Dream is a true champ btw, I started LST on it 2 days ago and it's already a beast ready for a 4 gal bucket.
Jozikins
Well-Known Member
https://www.rollitup.org/advanced-marijuana-cultivation/419007-medical-scrog-2-0-a-2.html
This guy just got rid of root aphids with nematodes. Apparently root aphids exist, sounds like what you have.
This guy just got rid of root aphids with nematodes. Apparently root aphids exist, sounds like what you have.
phenob
Active Member
this http://www.gchydro.com/PDF/Advanced_Schedule.pdf is a really cool writeup on using the AN system. I haven't gone through it completely, but it's the best, most sraightforward newbie guide to hydro with the AN line that I've seen. Assuming the info is good, good job by gchydro.
note they suggest using liquid karma rather than b-52. this is the second shop that has suggested this, so i'm going to give it a shot next time.
drain and refill with just under 14 gallons RO. I think we left about a half gallon in there.
ph after refilling just the RO comes to 5.5. res temp at 70f. dammit so much for my cool cold water RO machine!
add 425ml hygrozyme
add 250ml big bud
add 250ml b-52
add a cup of tea, because we are civilized.
add 140ml each sensi bloom a & b
13ml ph up over 20 minutes or so
add 100ml cal/mag
add .75tbsp great white powder
ph 6.0, 1170 ppm, 69f res
room 75f, chamber 83 - 87f on about a 9 minute CO2 cycle.
i have broken down and frozen some ice bottles to place in the res until i can get a better handle on the res temp rising under increased cab temp for CO2.
also, found some perfect plastic pots at the mart for $1. 6", they fit a 6" netpot perfectly. would be ideal to start a plant in then transfer to hydro. i am using 5" net pots in them, no problem. transplanted a few og clones (no bugs found so far since azamax treatment. another treatment in 5 days), will do the rest when i obtain more coco croutons.
note they suggest using liquid karma rather than b-52. this is the second shop that has suggested this, so i'm going to give it a shot next time.
drain and refill with just under 14 gallons RO. I think we left about a half gallon in there.
ph after refilling just the RO comes to 5.5. res temp at 70f. dammit so much for my cool cold water RO machine!
add 425ml hygrozyme
add 250ml big bud
add 250ml b-52
add a cup of tea, because we are civilized.
add 140ml each sensi bloom a & b
13ml ph up over 20 minutes or so
add 100ml cal/mag
add .75tbsp great white powder
ph 6.0, 1170 ppm, 69f res
room 75f, chamber 83 - 87f on about a 9 minute CO2 cycle.
i have broken down and frozen some ice bottles to place in the res until i can get a better handle on the res temp rising under increased cab temp for CO2.
also, found some perfect plastic pots at the mart for $1. 6", they fit a 6" netpot perfectly. would be ideal to start a plant in then transfer to hydro. i am using 5" net pots in them, no problem. transplanted a few og clones (no bugs found so far since azamax treatment. another treatment in 5 days), will do the rest when i obtain more coco croutons.
phenob
Active Member
root aphids - will look into that. i checked the roots on the ones that were transplanted today and they looked fantastic. zero signs of any problems, no crawlers or other critters detected, no sign of any root rot.
the safer soap did a hell of alot more damage to the clones than azamax did. no visible signs of any damage whatsoever from the azamax.
the safer soap did a hell of alot more damage to the clones than azamax did. no visible signs of any damage whatsoever from the azamax.
Jozikins
Well-Known Member
That Safer Soap is brutal poison on clones, but even half rooted clones love Azamax. How often do you go through a liter sized bottle of AN? It sounds like my H&G is a lot more concentrated. I have had the same 1 liter bottles of H&G for 3 rounds now, 4th round is almost over, and I still have half a bottle of both A and B still. Even my little 250ml bottles of booster products are 2/3 full. In a 15 gallon reservoir I might use 90-100ml of A and B formula, then I would add 15ml of Clonex or Algen Extract depending on the size of the vegging plants, and that is it. When they flower I throw in 45ml of MuliZen/BudXL/Top Booster depending on the stage of flowering, and then a few tsp of Shooting Powder in the very end.
I know, I know, I need to shut up about H&G already, but I'm freaking stingy. I've also never experienced such bizarre pH fluctuations, but then again I think it might of been those high PPM's you were using. I can't wait to see how they rock out at the low PPM's btw.
I highly recommend Liquid Karma, I have never used B-52 before, so I can't compare, but I do know plants can live off Liquid Karma alone for a very long time, and look amazing. Not that I ever starve my plants like that, but sometimes when I don't have my grow partner around, I need to trust a stooge not to fuck up my garden while I'm on vacation. So I tell them put some Liquid Karma in a bucket, pH it (fucking idiots never do), and throw it on them.
On another note: ARRRRRRRGGGGGGHHHHHHH!!! I found a spider mite on a flowering plant!!!! I am going to redust everything with DE, bomb the whole room with Dr.Doom, and then start Azatrol treatments every other day for 2 weeks. Maybe 3 weeks. I think they crawled in through the cracks around my in-wall A/C unit, I never caulked around it, like a lazy asshole. None of my plants have any bugs at all, if there aren't any bugs in my downstairs grow room, then there should not be any at all in my upstairs flower room. The infestation is starting in the back of the room, rather than the front of the room by the door. This plant is right next to the A/C unit so it makes sense that they came from the dying landscape on the side of my house. I am moving in like 4 days so we just gave up on maintaining the outside of the house, and I think this is why I'm getting these little fuckers. It's alright, Doctor Doom will blow these little fuckers away.
As soon as I am done with all this I am building a clone cab, and a mom cab, and I am going to make them fucking bug-proof. I am sick of all this shit. My next flowering room in my new place will also be bug proof.
I am going to try and research a thread for you on another growing website, I think it is on THCforums, but it's about using certain brands of pond enzymes instead of hygrozyme. Several pond scum brands have their product manufactured by the same people that manufacture the product for hygrozyme. The difference is the concentration levels, these pond scum cleaners are concentrated 16,000x or more than Hygrozyme, they are also missing Yucca Extract, a wetting agent, something you don't need if you are using B-52 or Liquid Karma, I know at least Liquid Karma has lots of Yucca in it. But other than that, it is the exact same stuff, and a 16,000x concentrated bottle of pond enzymes is about 20 bucks, and will last you the rest of your life, and your kids, and their kids. But in reality it will eventually go rank or lose effectiveness and you will throw it away. But the whole idea is get a lot of use for a little bit of money, and then laugh at all the fools still buying Hygrozyme.
I have never used any hygrozyme type product before, but would be interested in trying this pond scum enzyme. I am not interested in spending a lot more money on my garden, but I can piss 20 bucks, so I'll give it a shot.
I know, I know, I need to shut up about H&G already, but I'm freaking stingy. I've also never experienced such bizarre pH fluctuations, but then again I think it might of been those high PPM's you were using. I can't wait to see how they rock out at the low PPM's btw.
I highly recommend Liquid Karma, I have never used B-52 before, so I can't compare, but I do know plants can live off Liquid Karma alone for a very long time, and look amazing. Not that I ever starve my plants like that, but sometimes when I don't have my grow partner around, I need to trust a stooge not to fuck up my garden while I'm on vacation. So I tell them put some Liquid Karma in a bucket, pH it (fucking idiots never do), and throw it on them.
On another note: ARRRRRRRGGGGGGHHHHHHH!!! I found a spider mite on a flowering plant!!!! I am going to redust everything with DE, bomb the whole room with Dr.Doom, and then start Azatrol treatments every other day for 2 weeks. Maybe 3 weeks. I think they crawled in through the cracks around my in-wall A/C unit, I never caulked around it, like a lazy asshole. None of my plants have any bugs at all, if there aren't any bugs in my downstairs grow room, then there should not be any at all in my upstairs flower room. The infestation is starting in the back of the room, rather than the front of the room by the door. This plant is right next to the A/C unit so it makes sense that they came from the dying landscape on the side of my house. I am moving in like 4 days so we just gave up on maintaining the outside of the house, and I think this is why I'm getting these little fuckers. It's alright, Doctor Doom will blow these little fuckers away.
As soon as I am done with all this I am building a clone cab, and a mom cab, and I am going to make them fucking bug-proof. I am sick of all this shit. My next flowering room in my new place will also be bug proof.
I am going to try and research a thread for you on another growing website, I think it is on THCforums, but it's about using certain brands of pond enzymes instead of hygrozyme. Several pond scum brands have their product manufactured by the same people that manufacture the product for hygrozyme. The difference is the concentration levels, these pond scum cleaners are concentrated 16,000x or more than Hygrozyme, they are also missing Yucca Extract, a wetting agent, something you don't need if you are using B-52 or Liquid Karma, I know at least Liquid Karma has lots of Yucca in it. But other than that, it is the exact same stuff, and a 16,000x concentrated bottle of pond enzymes is about 20 bucks, and will last you the rest of your life, and your kids, and their kids. But in reality it will eventually go rank or lose effectiveness and you will throw it away. But the whole idea is get a lot of use for a little bit of money, and then laugh at all the fools still buying Hygrozyme.
I have never used any hygrozyme type product before, but would be interested in trying this pond scum enzyme. I am not interested in spending a lot more money on my garden, but I can piss 20 bucks, so I'll give it a shot.
phenob
Active Member
that would be fantastic, i'll look into it. the AN recipe calls for dumping TONS of whateverzyme into the sauce, and I'm curious to see so I'm following it. I've been considering switching to sensizyme since it's a hair cheaper but your idea sounds much better. also - the sensi grow/bloom nutrients i think have wet betty built into them.
i haven't given up on higher ppms, and I think i might finally have realized why I've had ph trouble. I think I can run the higher ppms just fine if I flush weekly or otherwise as instructed in the AN cookbook.
Blend a fresh batch and ph goes up for a day or two, then starts creeping downward. After about a week, it has crept down and, per the AN instructions, should be flushed to start the cycle over again. Instead of flushing, I've been letting it ride for at least 3 weeks, even regardless of what additives should or should not be in the mix during those different weeks. Instead of letting go of the low and getting lower ph sauce, I hold on to it and dump more stuff into it over time thinking that i'm replenishing the nutrient levels. Maybe so, but I'm just dumping in more ph lowering substances into a sauce that already wants to go lower .. and we have my exact symptoms.
I think this all goes away, right along with my lunch money, if I flush weekly as instructed. Check the link a few posts back to the gchydro explanation of the AN nute line. I keyed off on this when I saw the author specifically state there are certain flowering weeks that you can skimp and not flush, but to otherwise be sure to flush weekly. Sure they want to sell more nutrients, but again, not flushing weekly could theorectically produce a sauce where the ph just cant do anything but drop.
If I follow the recipe, I would go through about 1.5l of base nutrient. I'm going through far more zyme and other additives than base at this point.
The safer soap claimed another og clone today. Indeed the two smallest have been claimed, so definitely not for young clones. No sign of bugs here since the azamax treatment. Clones are doing great.
Res temp is requiring ice daily. Weak. I don't wanna buy a chiller dammit.
i haven't given up on higher ppms, and I think i might finally have realized why I've had ph trouble. I think I can run the higher ppms just fine if I flush weekly or otherwise as instructed in the AN cookbook.
Blend a fresh batch and ph goes up for a day or two, then starts creeping downward. After about a week, it has crept down and, per the AN instructions, should be flushed to start the cycle over again. Instead of flushing, I've been letting it ride for at least 3 weeks, even regardless of what additives should or should not be in the mix during those different weeks. Instead of letting go of the low and getting lower ph sauce, I hold on to it and dump more stuff into it over time thinking that i'm replenishing the nutrient levels. Maybe so, but I'm just dumping in more ph lowering substances into a sauce that already wants to go lower .. and we have my exact symptoms.
I think this all goes away, right along with my lunch money, if I flush weekly as instructed. Check the link a few posts back to the gchydro explanation of the AN nute line. I keyed off on this when I saw the author specifically state there are certain flowering weeks that you can skimp and not flush, but to otherwise be sure to flush weekly. Sure they want to sell more nutrients, but again, not flushing weekly could theorectically produce a sauce where the ph just cant do anything but drop.
If I follow the recipe, I would go through about 1.5l of base nutrient. I'm going through far more zyme and other additives than base at this point.
The safer soap claimed another og clone today. Indeed the two smallest have been claimed, so definitely not for young clones. No sign of bugs here since the azamax treatment. Clones are doing great.
Res temp is requiring ice daily. Weak. I don't wanna buy a chiller dammit.
Jozikins
Well-Known Member
I have a excellent and inexpensive solution for a chiller. Get a small compact fridge or freezer (freezer is best, 2x2ft is more than big enough) and drill a hole in the top and the bottom. Use a long coil of copper tubing (you can buy it already coiled) and go ahead and put it inside the freezer, attaching one side to the top and bottom hole, it should look like a distiller for booze. Once you have your tubing hooked up and sealed well, you can go ahead and fill the entire freezer with coolant up to a safe level, then seal it up. Go ahead and attach an appropriate sized pump (larger pumps can produce a lot of heat, and be counter-productive) to the top of the unit, so that it is pulling water through the unit, and then pushing it back into your reservoir. At least, I believe that is the right way to do it. A small pump with an adjustable speed would be best, you want to give your nutrient solution time to chill while it's traveling through the freezer. Urban Garden magazine has blue prints for it. With a little hunting on Craigslist, this is a 60 dollar problem solved. You can always anchor down 1L or 2L jugs of frozen water to a corner of your reservoir.
If you can control the temp of your reservoir, you can control the amount of dissolved oxygen is in the water. DO levels are determined by water temperature. I think somewhere between 63-68 are prime, but you can google this, I'm probably wrong on the numbers. This also controls the rate that bacteria (good and bad) reproduce, so it all around very beneficial. The more control of your temps, the less need you have for airstones. If you have your temps controlled, and your nutrients recirculating with this chiller (have the water return above the water level in your reservoir, so it has a water fall effect, oxygenating your water and keeping it from going stagnant) and you won't even need any air stones at all anymore.
Seriously, IMO, screw flushing weekly, that is expensive as fuck, and you aren't even sure if it will pay off yet. Topping off your reservoir is absolutely fine rather than refilling it, that is how most DWC growers do it. The best DWC grow I ever saw was with a $35 TechnaFlora kit, the DWC unit was only dumped between vegging, flowering, and flushing, other than that it was only topped off.. At one point he started changing the reservoir once during veg, between veg and flower, once during flower, and flushing, of course. He pulled pounds and pounds under 2 600w lamps, he pulled a single pound under one 430w son agro HPS. This was with a $35 dollar starter kit. I have used this product and pulled 3oz off one untrained plant that got severely light burned, it was 1 plant under a 400w lamp (just an experiment with a new strain I was considering) The plant might have been 20" tall. This was in DWC, and the pH was very stable, and needed very little adjusting. The pH did fine with very low ppm, or even as high as 1600ppm. All 10 products Technaflora makes for you to start and finish 3-4 crops is in this little box, and you need no additives on top of it. I of course always include silica and a fantastic carbon supplement to any grow, so Liquid Karma and Dyna-Gro Silica is always a MUST for me. If you can get some of H&G's Cell Splitter from a rep, it would replace both of those, but you can't get it in stores.
My H&G is also extremely stable. My pH can be in the 4's directly after mixing but after adjusting it can stay between 5.5 and 6.5 on it's own for weeks. During certain stages of growth, the nutrients pH balance themselves, and that is always fucking awesome. If you would like I have an extra bottle of H&G's A and B base nutrients for hydro. I can give you a small 4oz sample bottle of the MultiZyme supplement, but you would be on your own for the rest. You can always call H&G and ask for a sample pack, most nutrient companies are very willing to give out sample packs to new potential customers.
You can try this with Technaflora too, but they are hurt for money on their sample packs, it is such an amazing product at such a low price people are skeptical to purchase the sample pack, so they sit on shelves forever. I happen to know better and took advantage of this, and whenever I go into a store for more they get very excited and try and sell me 2 or 3 at a super discounted price. I got 2 for 24 bucks each last time, I can pick you one up if you would like.
Smoking some amazing Face Off one of protege's just finished a 6 week cure on. Fucking amazing!! The clone traveled all the way from the East Coast to her garden, and she used Flora Nova Grow and Bloom, with the Fox Farm Trio flowering booster pack and it is melting my face off. Not really advocating those products (although they are good), I am just over explaining because I am really, really stoned.
Really, really stoned.
If you can control the temp of your reservoir, you can control the amount of dissolved oxygen is in the water. DO levels are determined by water temperature. I think somewhere between 63-68 are prime, but you can google this, I'm probably wrong on the numbers. This also controls the rate that bacteria (good and bad) reproduce, so it all around very beneficial. The more control of your temps, the less need you have for airstones. If you have your temps controlled, and your nutrients recirculating with this chiller (have the water return above the water level in your reservoir, so it has a water fall effect, oxygenating your water and keeping it from going stagnant) and you won't even need any air stones at all anymore.
Seriously, IMO, screw flushing weekly, that is expensive as fuck, and you aren't even sure if it will pay off yet. Topping off your reservoir is absolutely fine rather than refilling it, that is how most DWC growers do it. The best DWC grow I ever saw was with a $35 TechnaFlora kit, the DWC unit was only dumped between vegging, flowering, and flushing, other than that it was only topped off.. At one point he started changing the reservoir once during veg, between veg and flower, once during flower, and flushing, of course. He pulled pounds and pounds under 2 600w lamps, he pulled a single pound under one 430w son agro HPS. This was with a $35 dollar starter kit. I have used this product and pulled 3oz off one untrained plant that got severely light burned, it was 1 plant under a 400w lamp (just an experiment with a new strain I was considering) The plant might have been 20" tall. This was in DWC, and the pH was very stable, and needed very little adjusting. The pH did fine with very low ppm, or even as high as 1600ppm. All 10 products Technaflora makes for you to start and finish 3-4 crops is in this little box, and you need no additives on top of it. I of course always include silica and a fantastic carbon supplement to any grow, so Liquid Karma and Dyna-Gro Silica is always a MUST for me. If you can get some of H&G's Cell Splitter from a rep, it would replace both of those, but you can't get it in stores.
My H&G is also extremely stable. My pH can be in the 4's directly after mixing but after adjusting it can stay between 5.5 and 6.5 on it's own for weeks. During certain stages of growth, the nutrients pH balance themselves, and that is always fucking awesome. If you would like I have an extra bottle of H&G's A and B base nutrients for hydro. I can give you a small 4oz sample bottle of the MultiZyme supplement, but you would be on your own for the rest. You can always call H&G and ask for a sample pack, most nutrient companies are very willing to give out sample packs to new potential customers.
You can try this with Technaflora too, but they are hurt for money on their sample packs, it is such an amazing product at such a low price people are skeptical to purchase the sample pack, so they sit on shelves forever. I happen to know better and took advantage of this, and whenever I go into a store for more they get very excited and try and sell me 2 or 3 at a super discounted price. I got 2 for 24 bucks each last time, I can pick you one up if you would like.
Smoking some amazing Face Off one of protege's just finished a 6 week cure on. Fucking amazing!! The clone traveled all the way from the East Coast to her garden, and she used Flora Nova Grow and Bloom, with the Fox Farm Trio flowering booster pack and it is melting my face off. Not really advocating those products (although they are good), I am just over explaining because I am really, really stoned.
Really, really stoned.
phenob
Active Member
I've thought about rigging a fridge/freezer thing up exactly as you described, but decided it would be a better long term solution to just use a chiller. Maybe working with multiple reservoirs not withstanding, a fridge or freezer is going to chew through a ton more electricity than a small chiller. $50-100 to rig a freezer pulling far more amps than you're using to get the job done vs a $300 chiller sipping just an amp or two. Not only better on the power bill, but this leaves more headroom on the circuits to add other things.
My biggest problem with the chiller is where to fit it. Space is at a premium bigtime in this cabinet. Have to do something though. Temp is almost always at 70 - 72, even after dropping ice in the res to bring it down to 65 ish nightly. The 80f+ cab temp will win every time.
to recap the last few days: flushed sunday, ph rose over the next few days peaking at 7. I didn't adjust downward too much, wanted to see how it would handle itself since I know the ph down swing will come. Ended up adjusting it down to around 6.3. The upswing continued for three days, and the 4th day today the ph down swing has started. 5.9 this morning, 5.8 a couple hours later. Here we go again ..
If my theory on having to flush weekly on the AN regimen to avoid massiv ph down drops is close to correct, we should not see massive ph swings until next week. I'm not optimistic.
Plants are drinking like crazy, ppm rising (although i haven't calibrated my notoriously drifting ppm meter in almost 2 weeks), so I'm going to look for a ppm target between 1 - 1.2k. AN calc says we shold be at around 1660 or something like that. Not even going to bother trying to hit that. If I start seeing massive ph down drop again before next week then I'm probably done fucking around with what AN says to do, and I'll let the plants do the driving.
ph 5.8, 1380ppm (dark hours reading, top off tonight will bring this down to under 1200ppm), res 70f
not going to bother reporting room temp anymore unless something odd is going on. It will not go over 77f, not so long as I can afford the power bill anyway ..
plants looking great. One thought that I've already come to, which you will see when I post some pics later today: In this chamber are six plants. Two of them have been in for a week longer than the others. These two fill nearly half of the screen. The other 4 plants (identical strain, same mother) were added a week later and do not cover nearly as much screen area. These 4 are much, much taller than the 2 that spent their energy filling up horizontally. Not even realistic to tie them back or otherwise LST them into a lower position. I'd have to top them, and that's not happening past week 2 of flower. So don't mix plant ages in a scrog. Better to mix strains than have different aged plants in there, as it will be nearly impossible to get the canopy nice and even. Even if it looks nice and uniform as you start flowering, the younger ones will stretch differently and screw up the balance.
oh and my add back this week has been fresh RO only with a cup of tea every 3 days. Maybe useful to note last night was cup of tea night, and this morning the PH swing is trending downwards. I suspect this has very little to do with the tea.
no funky smells or other apperent root problems with res temps higher. Everything still looks and smells great. I think we might have a couple of gnats trying to make a home underneath the res but no problems with it yet. Going to spray some ortho down underneath, well away from the plants, should nip that before anything serious happens. No swarms or anything just seeing a gnat or two down there everytime I open it up. Nothing up in the canopy or in the net pots.
On my preference for higher ppm - I'm setting a closet up for a friend who plans on running only the cheapest nutrients in a similar setup so we can compare results. I definitely understand what you are saying and why, I'm just on this path of seeing how the AN formula is going to work out. I don't want to back off now, and I probably won't on the next cycle either. After the next cycle I plan on reevaluating everything about the nutrient lineup and posisbly making big changes. Essentially, I've let AN drive the grow last cycle and this cycle. If I can't get a handle on this crazy ph drop then I'm going to call it for what it appears to be - AN bullshit - and we'll let the plants do the decision making about how much while we keep the same basic nutrient lineup.
All that being said, we really shouldn't have crazy problems, ph or otherwise, running ppm 1200 - 1500 in mid flowering, no matter what nutrients we use. The system, as well as the strain, should be able to handle this just fine. The fact that AN has a "ph perfect" formula now tells me that the old formula that us bastard Americans are stuck with has got issues.
My biggest problem with the chiller is where to fit it. Space is at a premium bigtime in this cabinet. Have to do something though. Temp is almost always at 70 - 72, even after dropping ice in the res to bring it down to 65 ish nightly. The 80f+ cab temp will win every time.
to recap the last few days: flushed sunday, ph rose over the next few days peaking at 7. I didn't adjust downward too much, wanted to see how it would handle itself since I know the ph down swing will come. Ended up adjusting it down to around 6.3. The upswing continued for three days, and the 4th day today the ph down swing has started. 5.9 this morning, 5.8 a couple hours later. Here we go again ..
If my theory on having to flush weekly on the AN regimen to avoid massiv ph down drops is close to correct, we should not see massive ph swings until next week. I'm not optimistic.
Plants are drinking like crazy, ppm rising (although i haven't calibrated my notoriously drifting ppm meter in almost 2 weeks), so I'm going to look for a ppm target between 1 - 1.2k. AN calc says we shold be at around 1660 or something like that. Not even going to bother trying to hit that. If I start seeing massive ph down drop again before next week then I'm probably done fucking around with what AN says to do, and I'll let the plants do the driving.
ph 5.8, 1380ppm (dark hours reading, top off tonight will bring this down to under 1200ppm), res 70f
not going to bother reporting room temp anymore unless something odd is going on. It will not go over 77f, not so long as I can afford the power bill anyway ..
plants looking great. One thought that I've already come to, which you will see when I post some pics later today: In this chamber are six plants. Two of them have been in for a week longer than the others. These two fill nearly half of the screen. The other 4 plants (identical strain, same mother) were added a week later and do not cover nearly as much screen area. These 4 are much, much taller than the 2 that spent their energy filling up horizontally. Not even realistic to tie them back or otherwise LST them into a lower position. I'd have to top them, and that's not happening past week 2 of flower. So don't mix plant ages in a scrog. Better to mix strains than have different aged plants in there, as it will be nearly impossible to get the canopy nice and even. Even if it looks nice and uniform as you start flowering, the younger ones will stretch differently and screw up the balance.
oh and my add back this week has been fresh RO only with a cup of tea every 3 days. Maybe useful to note last night was cup of tea night, and this morning the PH swing is trending downwards. I suspect this has very little to do with the tea.
no funky smells or other apperent root problems with res temps higher. Everything still looks and smells great. I think we might have a couple of gnats trying to make a home underneath the res but no problems with it yet. Going to spray some ortho down underneath, well away from the plants, should nip that before anything serious happens. No swarms or anything just seeing a gnat or two down there everytime I open it up. Nothing up in the canopy or in the net pots.
On my preference for higher ppm - I'm setting a closet up for a friend who plans on running only the cheapest nutrients in a similar setup so we can compare results. I definitely understand what you are saying and why, I'm just on this path of seeing how the AN formula is going to work out. I don't want to back off now, and I probably won't on the next cycle either. After the next cycle I plan on reevaluating everything about the nutrient lineup and posisbly making big changes. Essentially, I've let AN drive the grow last cycle and this cycle. If I can't get a handle on this crazy ph drop then I'm going to call it for what it appears to be - AN bullshit - and we'll let the plants do the decision making about how much while we keep the same basic nutrient lineup.
All that being said, we really shouldn't have crazy problems, ph or otherwise, running ppm 1200 - 1500 in mid flowering, no matter what nutrients we use. The system, as well as the strain, should be able to handle this just fine. The fact that AN has a "ph perfect" formula now tells me that the old formula that us bastard Americans are stuck with has got issues.