• Here is a link to the full explanation: https://rollitup.org/t/welcome-back-did-you-try-turning-it-off-and-on-again.1104810/

Adding deep & far reds to Quantum Board build

Toohighmf

Toohighmf

Well-Known Member
Randomblame said:
Thats the numbers for LM561c @wietefras has thrown in the round.
As decision support! As you can see 2700 and 3000°k have the best YPF/W numbers even if the cooler spectra from lumen view looks much more efficient.
I think 4000 and 3000°K is completely sufficient, no need to use higher kelvins! I use 3k only and see no reason to add other spectra, because everything works well and my plants looks like grown under natural sunlight.

View attachment 4113110
Click to expand...
@Randomblame 22706354-4A14-450A-AB53-0898C2E44481.jpeg
I totally hear you. I vegged under 3000k and everything was beautiful. Problem is the client still wants bells & whistles. Wants a programmable light with dmx protocols to add reds and blues at the right times throughout. You don’t see adding up to 15% 5000k aiding in veg or terp production in bloom?
 
Randomblame

Randomblame

Well-Known Member
Hmmm!
The spectrum is actually not sooo important, because plants adapt to it.
For additional blue, UV-A/B I have a reptile tube. These usually have between 6000 and 10,000°K, mine(an Arcadia Dessert D3) has 9,600°K/CRI90 and has a lot of extra blue.
If your client really wants to get the last out, then he should use extra UVB light to raise the thc/terpene content.
There are so-called aquarium controllers with expansion card for 0-10V dimming(stevesled, HurricaneX controller, rapidled also has a controller with expansion card), which means they are compatible with MW HLG/ELG drivers.
Maybe an alternative to DMX, where you often work with 12, 24 or 48v drivers.
These Arduino based controllers are also programmable to simulate sunrise/sunset and other things like rainy days. They can also work with several lights/driver/channels and different timers.

http://www.stevesleds.com/HurricaneX-LED-Controller_p_237.html

http://www.rapidled.com/storm-sunrise-sunset/

http://www.rapidled.com/10v-analog-converter-for-coralux-storm-controller/
 
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tazztone

tazztone

Active Member
GrowLightResearch said:
There is nothing more economical than the Samsung F-Series and Bridgelux EB Gen 2 strips.
[...]
Take a look at the Bridgelux Vesta Tunable White Linear strips. Each strip has a row of 5000K and 2700K. I do like running them with just the 2700K and not using the 5000K row at all. I do not believe they were intended to be used with both rows running at max current. The problem with with both rows running at max is they get too hot.
Click to expand...
why run at max? nobody does that.
i put my 280mm Vesta on a aluminum profile (not a heat sink) with thermal tape and run em at about "Test current" (530mA). both rows bridged together. only 35°C on the back of the aluminum

now consider the price:
VESTA: 10.7$ for 192pcs of LEDs = 0.06$/LED
VS
F-Series: 27.1$ for 144pcs of LM561C = 0.19$/LED
3x cheaper per LED.

IMG_20180406_140959.jpg
EB gen2 vs Vesta spectrum
spectrum Vesta vs EB_gen2.png
considering efficiency:
Vesta has CRI90 and 130LM/W
Fseries & EB Gen2 have CRI80 and 180LM/W
are these Vesta strips really that much less efficient than LM561C-based strips? if 80CRI LM561C is about 180lm/W what is lm/W of 90CRI LM561C?
i wonder about PAR/watt...
 
Randomblame

Randomblame

Well-Known Member
But till now I've not seen any CRI90 strip yet with LM561c and I've contacted some Alibaba sellers like Mufue and they say, only LM561b in CRI90 but in the same S3 bin. But from datasheet there is no S3 bin for LM561b so one need one of the better voltage bins(AY or AZ) to reach the same effiency.

But since these Alibaba scammers have already lied and often used other diodes as they claim, I did not ordered strips from them. Instead I have combined CRI90 COB's and CRI80 strips.
 
tazztone

tazztone

Active Member

Attachments

Randomblame

Randomblame

Well-Known Member
Yeah, slightly different spectrum but main reason LM561c is better as the predecessor is the improved heat management.
 
tazztone

tazztone

Active Member
Randomblame said:
main reason LM561c is better as the predecessor is the improved heat management.
Click to expand...
yeah but that doesn't really matter because Samsung puts them on weak heat transmission epoxy PCBs. i would buy that argument if it was on aluminum PCB.
anyway the temperatures are very low with VESTAS if you put them on any kind of aluminum profile using thermal tape, like i did.
so since vesta are only about 10lm/w lower than LM561C F564B but at 3x lower price, i think the deal is sealed.
have you found out anything about the LED they use?
 
Randomblame

Randomblame

Well-Known Member
tazztone said:
of course, see attachment.
also, here's a graph where i compared them to lm561c of the same CCTs:
View attachment 4117635
looks like the 5000K lm561c has more blue peak, or why the difference?

digikey link: https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/bridgelux/BXEB-TL-2750G-3000-A-13/976-1731-ND/7899252
Click to expand...
Thanks, mate! They look good, maybe the same diodes like EBgen.2 but CRI90?!
One could run the 2ft. strips with half current for better effiency. 22-23w per 2ft. strip with ~145/150lm/w sound good enough. The diodes on the Vesta strips get twice as much current as the EBgen2 strips diodes. The strip layout seems 8s12p so 96 diodes for each spectrum/channel. Thats 3,1v per diode and ~83,5mA. EBgen2 strips diodes run with 43,25mA and needs 2,78v(7s16p, 700mA).
My Blux V18c/3k/CRI90 are also driven @ only 500mA and effiency should be ~140-145lm. They are cheaper(got them for 3,92$ ea.) but the strips have much better light distribution and I could still use the same driver. The only thing I don't like/need is the tunable spectrum. I'm more interested in 3000°k only and both channels together is more like 3.850°k. Maybe I'll exchange the COB's next run, have to think about it ...
 
Ginger Viking

Ginger Viking

Well-Known Member
What is the suggested watts per sq ft for adding far red? Also what is the suggested on time with them(30mins on in the middle of the lights on or something of that nature)? I plan on building a hybrid light with strips, cobs, and far red. I know the ins and outs of the cobs and strips. I'm just not up to speed on the reds yet. This will cover a 3'x3' tent so 9sq ft to cover.
 
Randomblame

Randomblame

Well-Known Member
nogod_ said:

Edit: probably not going to see -40 in the grow room but its still 27.6v max at 25c
Click to expand...
Lol! 3,45v per diode? Only when driven at max. current of 2A per channel.
At nom. current max. at coldstart would be max. 26v.
But I would rather drive them low, with 500mA per channel it would be 23-24w per strip and vf. should be ~23,3v, max. 24,5v.
 
tazztone

tazztone

Active Member
yeah. i bet you don't want to drive them at 2A (which is rated max. current).
apart from seperate drivers for each color temperature, how else could one achieve CCT-tuneability?
 
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Randomblame

Randomblame

Well-Known Member
Ginger Viking said:
What is the suggested watts per sq ft for adding far red? Also what is the suggested on time with them(30mins on in the middle of the lights on or something of that nature)? I plan on building a hybrid light with strips, cobs, and far red. I know the ins and outs of the cobs and strips. I'm just not up to speed on the reds yet. This will cover a 3'x3' tent so 9sq ft to cover.
Click to expand...

I'm using more or less the same but I've added far-red is only for end of day threatment(6 XP-E's, only 3,5w net., for 5-10min. at lights out). Too much far-red cause unwanted stretch and in the worst case SAS(shade avoidance syndrom). The correct amount of far-red is difficult to determine. For this reason I mix CRI80 strips with CRI90 COB's, because CRI90 COB's has already shown that it works very well with its increased far-red part.

That's my latest build..
https://www.rollitup.org/t/led-users-unite.240615/page-466
 
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