Adding deep & far reds to Quantum Board build

[nfhiggs]

for 45$ i can buy chinise crap chips 16 x 50w / 1500-1800K @ 1450 max. current / 80lm/w
and drive them @ 3,1w / 90mA / ~183lm/w

How are you deriving that 183 l/w figure? Using the 10% rule of thumb (efficiency increases 10% at half the current) you get to about 117 l/w at 90 mA working backwards from the 1.4A max current, 80 l/w spec. Even using 20% gain figure only gets you to 165 l/w

 

[linderstein]

I desing pcb, deep red, royal blue and 385nm
2:1:1.
85w~90w.

 

[mahiluana]

above driver is 10W/300mA constant current - and you see 3 x 100W chip

with the same driver:
this is 5 x 100W chip + 1 x 50W (on the right) ---> only 50mA each chip and i still see good low voltage consistancy




Since years i diy with this spectrum (among others) to grow sucessfully healthy plants -
as they peak @ ~ 660nm they are an interesting alternative, if you want to add red to your spec. - and you can also veg + bloom without switch of the spec.
blue : red is 1 : 3,5 / very few greens + a good portion of far reds

 

[mahiluana]

Even using 20%

cree chips(cxb3590) win 23% @ half of the power
@ half current it`s even 25% more light efficiency

also a 1800K chip is emitting much less green light compared to 2700K
and luminous efficiency is not the adequate unit to compare.

if we see those chips as an alternative to add red to a cool- or neutralwhite chip(board)
we should compare them versus red, monochrome leds.
Red Cree chips often do not reach 70lm/w @ max. current

http://pct.cree.com/dt/index.html

 

[Toohighmf]

Thanks all for the info. In all honesty, I’ve never grown under anything than HID lighting, but waited and waited for this day to come where budget and technology synced. I’ve tried to digest as much as I can to relay the pertinent info to our client, and discourage them from going with a disco light, but they’ve been pitching “spectral manipulation” to their potential clients and they love it lol. I could kill my partner for ever suggesting it.

I’m kinda stupid so I’m having a tough time deciphering an actual parts list for the prototype of 4x 3000k qb304’s driven at 625w and the rest of the reds needed as well cool white, with drivers. @Randomblame sorry to be an asshat but can you help me so I can just order the stuff and build it?

 

[Randomblame]

Here are the instructions and links for a minimum 610w F-Series strip lamp(probably ~650w, equivalent to 6 Quantumboards288 or 1728x LM561c/S6). 100% real LM561c/S6, no fakes!

https://www.rollitup.org/t/samsung-f562b-linear-strip-build.952309/page-6#post-14011277

Here you can get Cree XP-E HE photored/655-665nm, C01 top bin, 425mW@350mA(57% eff.) for 1,99$/pcs

https://www.ebay.com/itm/10x-Cree-X...521547?hash=item33d63afa8b:g:ZWQAAOSwlEdZsT-L

And at last, these are really powerful 410-420nm SemiLED's

https://www.ebay.com/itm/5pcs-U70-S...284670?hash=item4ae046517e:g:nZQAAOSw8d9UtODa

Alu C-channel should be available in your local metal-shop, from Walmart or maybe if you're lucky you can get them from a scrapyard for very cheap. I've found a lot of my heatsinks and other metal parts on a scrapyard and got it at a kilo-price base, so I recommend to everyone to call a scrapyard first.

You still need some misc parts I've not listed like awg20 single core wire(black/red), some Wago clamps, screws and bolts for the frame, tools like a drill, a jigsaw, a multimeter, screwdriver, ..... and not to forget, a wallplug!

BTW,
I prefer F-Series strips over qboards for DIY because they provide a better coverage with a more even distribution and you get them ~40-50% cheaper.
I think now you have everything you need to build a badass light.

 

[Sour Wreck]

I prefer F-Series strips over qboards for DIY because they provide a better coverage with a more even distribution and you get them ~40-50% cheaper.

another vote for f-strip coverage,

 

[Toohighmf]

Here are the instructions and links for a minimum 610w F-Series strip lamp(probably ~650w, equivalent to 6 Quantumboards288 or 1728x LM561c/S6). 100% real LM561c/S6, no fakes!

https://www.rollitup.org/t/samsung-f562b-linear-strip-build.952309/page-6#post-14011277

Here you can get Cree XP-E HE photored/655-665nm, C01 top bin, 425mW@350mA(57% eff.) for 1,99$/pcs

https://www.ebay.com/itm/10x-Cree-X...521547?hash=item33d63afa8b:g:ZWQAAOSwlEdZsT-L

And at last, these are really powerful 410-420nm SemiLED's

https://www.ebay.com/itm/5pcs-U70-S...284670?hash=item4ae046517e:g:nZQAAOSw8d9UtODa

Alu C-channel should be available in your local metal-shop, from Walmart or maybe if you're lucky you can get them from a scrapyard for very cheap. I've found a lot of my heatsinks and other metal parts on a scrapyard and got it at a kilo-price base, so I recommend to everyone to call a scrapyard first.

You still need some misc parts I've not listed like awg20 single core wire(black/red), some Wago clamps, screws and bolts for the frame, tools like a drill, a jigsaw, a multimeter, screwdriver, ..... and not to forget, a wallplug!

BTW,
I prefer F-Series strips over qboards for DIY because they provide a better coverage with a more even distribution and you get them ~40-50% cheaper.
I think now you have everything you need to build a badass light.

@Randomblame THANK YOU! What I don’t have is the quantities of each color To properly ratio it out. That’s what I’m honestly having the hardest time with, but seriously, thank you thank you thank you!
Also, we were gonna go with aluminum sheet/plate like the hlg-550 to slide it in to an air cooled hood we are fabricating to remove the power supply & radiant heat from the diodes. If we can configure the spacing of the strips to something similar to the QB 304 I think we’re in business!

 

[Randomblame]

@Randomblame THANK YOU! What I don’t have is the quantities of each color To properly ratio it out. That’s what I’m honestly having the hardest time with, but seriously, thank you thank you thank you!
Also, we were gonna go with aluminum sheet/plate like the hlg-550 to slide it in to an air cooled hood we are fabricating to remove the power supply & radiant heat from the diodes. If we can configure the spacing of the strips to something similar to the QB 304 I think we’re in business!

Sounds interesting, mate!
Do you have to fight against heat where you live? Sometimes it can be difficult to keep the temps between 25° and 30°C if ambient temps are low. For more heat inside the tent I have to mount my drivers on the backside of my lamps, I've tried it with remote driver but coudn't reach the desired temps this way. My ambient temps over the year are 15 - 25°C and usually I have a Δ of ~+5°C over ambient. Reducing fresh air intake is only useful up to a certain point, otherwise you would need to add CO².

I would mix warm- and cool-white 50:50, 50% 4000 or 5000°k with 50% 3000°k!
For ~625w white you could mix 50w 660nm and 25w 420nm to complete the spectrum at both ends. But it's exspensive and needs a lot of wiring effort. You could also use Bridgelux meat-chips with 1750°k COB's, instead of using such amounts of 3w diodes. They do the same thing a bit better because the also deliver some far-red and adding 6 V13, V18 or V22/1750°k at 350-525mA would be a nice 70-100w bloom booster. Unfortunately, gen7 chips are poorly available and digikey has only Vero29gen.6 in stock.

https://www.digikey.de/products/de/...t=0&page=1&quantity=0&ptm=0&fid=0&pageSize=25

 

[Moflow]

Sounds interesting, mate!
Do you have to fight against heat where you live? Sometimes it can be difficult to keep the temps between 25° and 30°C if ambient temps are low. For more heat inside the tent I have to mount my drivers on the backside of my lamps, I've tried it with remote driver but coudn't reach the desired temps this way. My ambient temps over the year are 15 - 25°C and usually I have a Δ of ~+5°C over ambient. Reducing fresh air intake is only useful up to a certain point, otherwise you would need to add CO².

I would mix warm- and cool-white 50:50, 50% 4000 or 5000°k with 50% 3000°k!
For ~625w white you could mix 50w 660nm and 25w 420nm to complete the spectrum at both ends. But it's exspensive and needs a lot of wiring effort. You could also use Bridgelux meat-chips with 1750°k COB's, instead of using such amounts of 3w diodes. They do the same thing a bit better because the also deliver some far-red and adding 6 V13, V18 or V22/1750°k at 350-525mA would be a nice 70-100w bloom booster. Unfortunately, gen7 chips are poorly available and digikey has only Vero29gen.6 in stock.

https://www.digikey.de/products/de/...t=0&page=1&quantity=0&ptm=0&fid=0&pageSize=25

Wats up @Randomblame?
Have you any updates on those 9 watt low K strips you got to play about with?

 

[Randomblame]

Wats up @Randomblame?
Have you any updates on those 9 watt low K strips you got to play about with?

No not really!
Have a few disassembled and they all run with ~69-70v/120mA with the built-in driver.
Currently I try to find some CRI90 stripes, so I can compare both. I would like to test ⅔ 3000°k/CRI80 + ⅓ 3000°k/CRI90 against ⅔ 3000°k/CRI80 + ⅓ 1850°k/CRI80 and see what gives better results.
With luck, today or tomorrow I can get warm white CRI90 strips with LM561b+(no LM561c in CRI90 available).
I'm talking with three suppliers currently, but it depends on the available binnings, I want them as efficient as possible. 150-160lm/w would be okay for a 3000°k/CRI90 strip but this means at least S3/A1 or better.
If it works, I will not withhold where you can get it.

 

[Moflow]

No not really!
Have a few disassembled and they all run with ~69-70v/120mA with the built-in driver.
Currently I try to find some CRI90 stripes, so I can compare both. I would like to test ⅔ 3000°k/CRI80 + ⅓ 3000°k/CRI90 against ⅔ 3000°k/CRI80 + ⅓ 1850°k/CRI80 and see what gives better results.
With luck, today or tomorrow I can get warm white CRI90 strips with LM561b+(no LM561c in CRI90 available).
I'm talking with three suppliers currently, but it depends on the available binnings, I want them as efficient as possible. 150-160lm/w would be okay for a 3000°k/CRI90 strip but this means at least S3/A1 or better.
If it works, I will not withhold where you can get it.

Excellent!

 

[Toohighmf]

Sounds interesting, mate!
Do you have to fight against heat where you live? Sometimes it can be difficult to keep the temps between 25° and 30°C if ambient temps are low. For more heat inside the tent I have to mount my drivers on the backside of my lamps, I've tried it with remote driver but coudn't reach the desired temps this way. My ambient temps over the year are 15 - 25°C and usually I have a Δ of ~+5°C over ambient. Reducing fresh air intake is only useful up to a certain point, otherwise you would need to add CO².

I would mix warm- and cool-white 50:50, 50% 4000 or 5000°k with 50% 3000°k!
For ~625w white you could mix 50w 660nm and 25w 420nm to complete the spectrum at both ends. But it's exspensive and needs a lot of wiring effort. You could also use Bridgelux meat-chips with 1750°k COB's, instead of using such amounts of 3w diodes. They do the same thing a bit better because the also deliver some far-red and adding 6 V13, V18 or V22/1750°k at 350-525mA would be a nice 70-100w bloom booster. Unfortunately, gen7 chips are poorly available and digikey has only Vero29gen.6 in stock.

https://www.digikey.de/products/de/...t=0&page=1&quantity=0&ptm=0&fid=0&pageSize=25

This particular Grow is in the Mojave Desert where summers can reach upwards of 50C or 120+ Fahrenheit. We made made insulated sealed steel structures to build the most efficient grow we could. A 2 ton mini split AC handles ambient of the 4600w of HLG-550’s, and a quest dual 105 dehuey. but to keep the AC running at a minimum, (VPD) we want to Aircool what we can by simply sucking the radiant heat off the drivers and heatsink while keeping the enviro in the room. We figured the best way to do that was to “suck” the heat right off the units and directly out through a sealed path. I did this 10+ years ago in a warehouse with 10kw of Lighting using cool tubes and swaged my own clear PBT collars to the lights. Outside temps were 100-110F, but We had a 8000btu AC to keep the room cool while 3 440cfm fans sucked every bit off the lights and maintained 28.88C or 85F in this sealed room. We ran Co2 at 1500ppm from week 2 of bloom until flush on a 30lb co2 tank... worked like gangbuststers!

 

[mahiluana]

Aircool

Have a look to your car !

What do you see ?

It`s a watercooled unit - start the future !

specially in this dimensions...

 

[Toohighmf]

Have a look to your car !

What do you see ?

It`s a watercooled unit - start the future !

specially in this dimensions...

Ha! Funny. I actually almost worked for hydro innovations way back. Now it’s a division of Surna. Definitely the most efficient form of cooling for bigger stuff, and something we are doing for multiple units.

 

[mahiluana]

Definitely the most efficient form of cooling for bigger stuff

with each KW of lamp power - you can harvest 0,6KW of heat power with a watercooled set up.
If you run eg. 5KW of lamp power 12-18h every day
- during 50.000h of lamplife you will spent
4.500.000KW and you could rewin 2.700.000KW of heat in the next 7 years

you can:
- increase light efficiency ~5-15% - by low junction temp. of your chips

- prepare ~1500L of hot service water / day - triple the energy efficiency from an aircooled
lamp system (25-30%) --->up to 85% for a watercooled led lamp

- take out the heat of your grow room @ very low electr. cost for active cooling - and bring back this heat during the night, using your lamps as a radiator...

 

[Schalalala]

@mahiluana
How many kW can I recover when I use proper chips instead of china garbage from 2010?

 

[mahiluana]

can I recover

you can`t recover anything - because you are to stupid to diy a watercooled led light

let`s assume that you are enlighted enough to know, that light heat cogeneration of a led chip

= 99,9999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 % of If * Vf

CREE says: heat power = ~ 0.75 * If * Vf

OSRAM says: heat power = ~ 0.75 * If * Vf

I say: heat power = ~ 0.75 * If * Vf and I can recover 80% of this heat, whatever the brand or bin...even @ low current they all produce 70-80% heat.
specially if I want to add warmwhite chips with lots of red - they will produce slightly more heat
in the silicone layer but then help me to fill my heatexchanger a bit faster.

As a watercooler I don`t think so much about the light efficiency of a chip -
since I realized that a led chip is a much better water heater than a light emitter...
and can`t understand why so many growers hunting after lumens...2% lm here... 3% lm there...
... but completely ignore the posibility to increase efficiency by a factor of 250%

But I don`t care and have happy hot showers with my watercooled 85% energy efficiency.

With aircooled "high proper" led chips you can`t get higher than 30% energy effic.

To recover 60% of the input as heat power also means

100lm / W change into 100lm / 0.4W = 250lm / W

imagine what could happen with a proper 200lm/w chip

(pappnase)

 

[Toohighmf]

with each KW of lamp power - you can harvest 0,6KW of heat power with a watercooled set up.
If you run eg. 5KW of lamp power 12-18h every day
- during 50.000h of lamplife you will spent
4.500.000KW and you could rewin 2.700.000KW of heat in the next 7 years

you can:
- increase light efficiency ~5-15% - by low junction temp. of your chips

- prepare ~1500L of hot service water / day - triple the energy efficiency from an aircooled
lamp system (25-30%) --->up to 85% for a watercooled led lamp

- take out the heat of your grow room @ very low electr. cost for active cooling - and bring back this heat during the night, using your lamps as a radiator...

Here’s the thing. These go in a warehouse or on a field. There’s absolutely no need for hot water other than to keep my hands warm while washing them. Great if I was doing this at home with a family etc, but these containers are already a little cramped for space, and 2 220w in-line fans cost me $160. Less than $15 a month to operate.

 

[Schalalala]

let`s assume that you are enlighted enough to know, that light heat cogeneration of a led chip

= 99,9999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 % of If * Vf

CREE says: heat power = ~ 0.75 * If * Vf

OSRAM says: heat power = ~ 0.75 * If * Vf

I say: heat power = ~ 0.75 * If * Vf and I can recover 80% of this heat, whatever the brand or bin...even @ low current they all produce 70-80% heat.