Al B. FAQt

Molasses are not useful as a plant fertiliser. Molasses or any sugar added to a hydroponic system is not only of no benefit but a disaster waiting to happen. Great food for bacteria & fungi, useless for cannabis.

And there is the book, kindergarten art and professional pictures, kids will love the camel, and that slogan I'm a Fuct Head, I love it. Still say it many times a week, your first illustration on the op makes it clear. Better let GK know his biggest thread is getting blown. VV

ok.. so ive been pondering on the grow room renovation over a joint..

i am definately getting a cool tube and hooking it up properly ( with own blower wired to a controller/ sourced and dumped outside the grow )

i am probably going going to have to add AC as well... (the temp outside the grow is still higher than my target is (25c / 77f )

now, being that i have a passive intake in my grow room ( just a hole in the bottom with a light trap on the outside) and my harsh temp conditions, i have the exhaust blower on a timer to run 15 mins every hour when lights are off, and the entire span of the light cycle plus 15 minutes for cooling..
this is creating huge spikes ( 33c lights on / 28c lights off ) which i know CANT be good..

so we have already established i need to fix that.. im just a little confuzed on how to orchestrate all these fans and an AC.. .
i know u posted a couple diagrams/info on wiring a thermostat and all...
but im having a hard time finding that now...
how would i make all these components run together harmoniously without fighting each other and/or making one another work harder:

1. 295 CFM exhaust blower, on timer (15 min increments)
2. portable ac ( has thermostat )
3. cool tube with 150mm axial fan

i would think that with the cool tube keeping the light from creating heat, the AC wouldnt have to do much work to hit the target temp. but i would need to take the exhaust off of the timer, right? and hook it to a thermostat.. because it would be just sucking out the cooled air.

so i have been thinking about this and im a bit confuzed
possible scenarios:

1. the room stays too cool for the exhaust thermostat to be activated - not allowing fresh air to be taken in threw my passive intake

2. the intake air is hotter than the grow rooms interior, so when the exhaust IS activated, the room will rise in temperature ( activating the AC ) which will be fighting to lower the temp with the exhaust which is raising the temp and will continue pulling in warm air until the ac can reach the target..

im stoned right now so maybe it will make sense later.. but its a territory ive yet roamed, so im unfamiliar with it. and u seem to have all the answers!

VictorVIcious said:

and that slogan I'm a Fuct Head, I love it. Still say it many times a week,

Click to expand...

it is catchy right?
AL should start selling merch



errr...FUCT

I've been growing for 14 years with 200+ crops under my belt. I would love to not have to hassle with flushing every crop.

When I first started I didn't know about flushing. I couldn't understand why my buds tasted like well fertilized grass clippings.

My worst experience came when I tried fish emulsion right up until harvest! The bud tasted just like fish ass.

My old school grow buddy told me about flushing and I gave it a try on the next batch. Sure enough the bud burned clean and tasty.

So when I switched to hydro I assumed you would need to flush also. All the books and articles I read confirmed my thoughts. (but) My mentor told me he never flushes his plants and that you don't need to with organic nutes.

He gave me some buds to try. I didn't have the heart to tell him his bud tasted like shit and snapped, crackled and popped and left black ashes. No way was I going back to that!

I decided to try using a short 5 day flush the first time using just Clearex. The buds still came out a little tangy on the fert side but burned fairly clean.

So for awhile now I've been leaching for a day and then flushing for two weeks with water. If I could I would flush even longer.

So my question is, how do you get away without flushing?

Do you back down on your PPM the last few weeks? I run my PPM hot as fuct. 2900 PPM. 2000-2400 PPM week 7. What are you running the last two weeks?

Are your plants turning colors or staying dark green all the way to harvest?

I'm not saying your technique does not work. I'm sure it does.

I know you've done a taste test just like me (but with different results).

I'm just sitting here saying "WTF, how does he do it"? Magic?

Tell me your secret..

my questions are simple.......

Do you really need ac if your temps get out of control? Some of us live in unhospitable areas and temps soar to 100 degrees during summer. Short of running the ac all day long and having to suppliment the particular area even still........what do you do?

If the mothers are subjected to this temp problem, can you correct it later by clones in better temps? Meaning, if this batch goes through as leggy and not dense or great production.........will the subsequent batches revert in better temps to make better producers?

wow good shit i just finished reading from page 1

Me too...I'm waiting for a reply for stinkbuds question. Thanks Al B for starting this...I hated going back through that other thread...I could never remember what freakin page I read stuff on....and usually gave up before I found it again.

One other thing...about the sugar comment you made...Isn't it of benefit to use sugars when you are using beneficial bact. and fungi? And in turn benefits cannabis. Thats what I was told, it seems to hold true...thoughts?

dertmagert said:

1. the room stays too cool for the exhaust thermostat to be activated - not allowing fresh air to be taken in threw my passive intake

2. the intake air is hotter than the grow rooms interior, so when the exhaust IS activated, the room will rise in temperature ( activating the AC ) which will be fighting to lower the temp with the exhaust which is raising the temp and will continue pulling in warm air until the ac can reach the target..

Click to expand...

OK, we have a few scenarios to explore.

With an exhaust blower but without cooltubes or aircon, the main exhaust blower should be running on a thermostat. That blower will be working pretty hard in most cases to remove the heat, so an intake fan will help the efficiency. If there's enough throughflow, the room temp will stay pretty close to the air intake temp.

Intake blower/s should be rated about 80-90% of the CFM capacity of the exhaust blower. This keeps the room at slightly negative pressure. Any air leaks in your room construction will leak inward, meaning all air leaving the room is going through the exhaust blower, making it easier to control scents. Centrifugals work better on exhaust, especially if you are pushing air into a long duct or a carbon filter. Cheaper, axial blowers can be used for intakes as they are not pushing into a high static pressure or flow obstruction.

With cooltubes but no aircon, run the exhaust blower on a thermostat set for 25C. Might be able to get away with passive intake as the exhaust blower won't be solely responsible for shifting the lamp heat out of the room.

With cooltubes, aircon and an exhaust blower, you will probably not need an intake blower. In this case, the exhaust blower should run on a digital timer (allows single minute increment programming instead of 15 min increments), about 5 mins each hour during lights on, to draw in sufficient CO2 for the plants. The aircon will control temp and RH. The cooltubes will shift the vast majority of the lighting heat out, which will make the aircon work much less hard.

A CO2 system, while HUGELY expensive, in concert with cooltubes and aircon, can eliminate the exhaust blower/thermostat entirely. Most growers' ops are not really large enough to justify the couple $thou cost of a CO2 tank, regulator and automatic metering/measurement device. If you're going to do CO2, the only way to do it is with the proper kit. If you're trying some bodged-up method of making CO2 like dripping vinegar into baking soda, you really don't know how much CO2 you're applying- waste of time & effort. CO2 ops can be run warmer, about 29C. THC starts to break down into non-psychoactive components above 29C, so while with CO2 enrichment, plants will probably grow pretty well at up to 31-32C, the d9-THC made can be breaking down into cannabidinol or cannabidiol- while still on the buds.

dertmagert said:

it is catchy right?
AL should start selling merch

errr...FUCT

Click to expand...

Totally catchy. Get them to fix the spelling, everyone knows that should be' Fuct,' ferfuxsake.

StinkBud said:

I've been growing for 14 years with 200+ crops under my belt. I would love to not have to hassle with flushing every crop.

When I first started I didn't know about flushing. I couldn't understand why my buds tasted like well fertilized grass clippings.

Click to expand...

While all plant material is mainly built from cellulose, nice tasting buds taste nice because they have a lot of resin compared to the amount of cellulose. You taste the vapourised resin instead of the burning cellulose. Cellulose accounts for the grass clip flavour. If there's not a lot of resin, as might be expected from a plant that's not very healthy, you're going to taste the burning cellulose. This is also the reason why fan leaves are terrible to smoke; very little resin by weight (compared to the weight of the cellulose that the leaf is made from) is produced on fan leaves, giving them that lawn-clip flavour.

In just one example, fert burned plants don't make much resin. In cases where the nutes have been run too hot for most of flowering (but the plants have not been totally cooked) but then are run on plain water, the plant may be able to recover a bit and make some resin in those last 2 weeks. This may lead one to believe that the flavour has been improved by flushing compared to batches which were not flushed.

I've also seen buds from real ordinary DNA come up grassy no matter what you do to them, due to poor resin production. On the other hand, buds from great DNA may produce so much resin even when grown hamhandedly that it also doesn't matter whether you flush or not.

My worst experience came when I tried fish emulsion right up until harvest! The bud tasted just like fish ass.

Click to expand...

Yep, I can see that happening! Just add tartare sauce & lemon juice, will fix it right up.

Tells me one thing- you used too much fish emulsion. I use Charlie Carp on my organic veg patch. I've accidentally overdone it on kitchen herbs like parsley- and you can detect the flavour. However, the plant will benefit from the stuff in much smaller quantities than will produce a fishy flavour.

My old school grow buddy told me about flushing and I gave it a try on the next batch. Sure enough the bud burned clean and tasty.

Click to expand...

Same thing could have been accomplished with lower doses of fish goo.

So when I switched to hydro I assumed you would need to flush also. All the books and articles I read confirmed my thoughts. (but) My mentor told me he never flushes his plants and that you don't need to with organic nutes.

Click to expand...

If you're running an appropriate nute strength, whether 'organic' nutes or standard types, he's right, flushing isn't needed.

He gave me some buds to try. I didn't have the heart to tell him his bud tasted like shit and snapped, crackled and popped and left black ashes. No way was I going back to that!

Click to expand...

Sounds like he was both overfertilisng and may also have allowed his buds to overdry. Smokable buds are around 0.5-1% water by weight. Too dry and it burns too hot, making for a harsh smoke.

So my question is, how do you get away without flushing?

Do you back down on your PPM the last few weeks? I run my PPM hot as fuct. 2900 PPM. 2000-2400 PPM week 7. What are you running the last two weeks?

Click to expand...

Back your nute strength WAY down. I'm really quite surprised you're not cooking plants at 2900ppm- or are you cooking them?

I run all 4 of my flowering tanks at 1400, from go to whoa. Could go higher without burning but 1400 produces healthy plants without nute deficiencies.

Are your plants turning colors or staying dark green all the way to harvest?

Click to expand...

I get lime green growing tips when young plants are actively getting with the program; mature foliage is dark green to harvest day

Tell me your secret..

Click to expand...

The difference between mine and yours appears to be the nute strength. I don't know what DNA you're running, but known good beans from a reputable breeder are necessary, anything less may give poor results.

In growing weed, more isn't usually better. There's a bell curve- 'too little,' 'just right' and dead. The trick with nute strength is to give only enough nutes to prevent deficiencies. They are not V8 engines, where more fuel and air always leads to more power.

hybrid said:

my questions are simple.......

Do you really need ac if your temps get out of control? Some of us live in unhospitable areas and temps soar to 100 degrees during summer. Short of running the ac all day long and having to suppliment the particular area even still........what do you do?

Click to expand...

If your ambient air temps are exceeding 38C, you're going to need aircon. Cooltubes reduce the workload on the aircon unit, but when the air you have available to draw in is far hotter than your 25C target, aircon is the only way to get temps down to an acceptable level.

If the mothers are subjected to this temp problem, can you correct it later by clones in better temps? Meaning, if this batch goes through as leggy and not dense or great production.........will the subsequent batches revert in better temps to make better producers?

Click to expand...

Yep, you're right. The plant will react to temps at the time but this will not alter the DNA of the plant. In example, if your mums are subjected to excessive temps, yes, the mums may get a bit leggy, but if the clones taken from them are in a clonebox at reasonable temps as is the flowering area, they will not continue to get leggy nor make fluffy buds.

shenagen said:

One other thing...about the sugar comment you made...Isn't it of benefit to use sugars when you are using beneficial bact. and fungi? And in turn benefits cannabis. Thats what I was told, it seems to hold true...thoughts?

Click to expand...

The only evidence I have ever found in support of sugars is the use of debris from sugar beet or cane production used as a soil conditioner. Nowhere will you ever find any evidence that sugars are themselves useful to the plants themselves. Vascular plants make simple sugars in the process of making cellulose, the basic building block of all plants, but that doesn't mean that adding sugars (especially not complex sugars like sucrose) is useful to the plant. They probably won't make it though the root membrane.

Yes, sugars may feed microbes in soil, some of which break down organic materials into elements the plant can use as nutrients (eg N, P & K), but you don't get your choice of which microbes you're feeding. You're feeding pathogens like pythium and fusarium at the same time. May the best germs win!

In a hydroponic system, you should be growing ONE type of organism- cannabis plants. No bacteria, beneficial or not, should be living in any recirculating hydroponic system. Sugars of any kind added to hydro systems will quickly give you nothing more than a real mess, real fast.

While it's on my mind, I need to make a comment about organic growing.

'Organic' does not mean 'good,' 'better' or 'safer.' It only means you are providing complex, natural biomass (ie compost or a liquid extract like compost 'tea') as a fertiliser. However, your growing plant can't use that material directly. The biomass has to be broken down into elemental components like N, P & K for the plant to absorb them. This is accomplished by microbial activity or by the material being digested and excreted as simpler material by earthworms or other low level invertebrates.

'Organic hydroponics' is almost an oxymoron. For organic materials to be used in a recirculating liquid watering system, all the biomass pretty well has to be gone, mostly broken down into elemental components. There's precious little difference between that and standard hydroponic nutrients which are made from chemicals like ammonium nitrate, etc.

Organic systems are not generally compatible with H2O2, an important oxygenator/steriliser for recirculating hydro systems. H2O2 will break down organics and will kill any microbes in the system which you may be depending upon to break down the organic material over the life of a tank of nutrient.

Inorganic nutes are not affected by H2O2. I don't know what I'd do if I had to run an op without H2O2. I do know it'd be a lot messier and my roots would not be as well oxygenated.

how much H2O2 (hydrogen peroxide) can i mix w/ the water in a cloner?

overfiend said:

how much H2O2 (hydrogen peroxide) can i mix w/ the water in a cloner?

Click to expand...

With 50% grade ('horticultural') H2O2, use 1ml/litre, every 3-4 days. Same dosage and reapplication rate in nutrient tanks.

If you can only get 35% 'food grade' (used for sterilising food processing equip), use 1.7ml/L.

If you're really stuck and can only get 3% 'pharmacy grade' H2O2, it's 17ml/L, which gets way out of hand when trying to dose large nute tanks. My 125L tanks would each need 2125ml of 3% every 3-4 days. When you consider that pharm grade is usually sold in 250ml bottles, that's 8.5 of them! I have 4 flowering tanks and one mother plant tank... I'd need about 36 250ml bottles of 3% every 3-4 days. You reckon the pharmacist will mind?

I buy 25L 'carboy' jugs of 50% grade from a chemical supply house, about $125, lasts months.

Hi Al, I got another quick question about H2O2, wen u put it in ur tanks does it change the colour of your soup? Is this normal? My tank goes from being a shade of red to almost crystal clear, is this a reaction from the H2O2 with the nutes?
Cheers in advance,

L.I.S

LostInSpace... said:

My tank goes from being a shade of red to almost crystal clear, is this a reaction from the H2O2 with the nutes?

Click to expand...

The red colour is probably vegetable dyes added to the various parts of your multipart nutes so you can tell them apart.

Since H2O2 is a strong oxidiser, like any good bleaching agent, I would expect it is probably breaking down the complex organic dye molecules and thus removing the colour.

It won't have any effect on inorganic materials like nutrients in the mixes, which can't be broken down any further by oxidising.

Thanks mate, ur a champion.

We aim to please.

Another cross-post from another thread. I cover some stuff here about nute tank management that I took a fair few years to work out.

SmallPowerzzz said:

Thanks for the advise everyone. I've been having troubles with balancing my reservoir water ph before i do the weekly switch. after i add the nutes the ph is way low, so to raise it i tried to use baking soda...bad idea (salt issues)!

Click to expand...

yeah, way bad idea.

So I heard that you don't need ph up because the plants and medium raise the ph themselves, and I've been adding ph down every day.
I'm afraid that feeding them with solution with too low a ph will hurt them, and i am so looking forward to my own grown.

Click to expand...

Yes, low pH WILL hurt your plants. If pH is lower than it should be (never below 5.5), you stand a very good chance of locking out certain nutrients- this will appear as nutrient deficiencies on the plants.

And thanks again I will buy potassium hydroxide for my ph up, after all that salt I'm sure my plants would appreciate the potassium. Cheers

Click to expand...

Yep, use the right stuff. Guessing and using unproven substitutes will get you in dutch, every single time.

It's very unusual to see pH drop too low after adding nutes to plain water. Are you correcting the water's pH before adding nutes? If so- don't! Most nutrients have pH buffers built in and will correct pH without you adding any pHDown.

I use Canna nutes. Even when my tapwater is 7.5-8.1, when mixing for 1400ppm, the nutes alone will correct the solution pH to about 5.7-5.9, close enough for rock-n-roll.

I can't see any need to correct pH every day under normal circumstances. pH & nute strength can be allowed wander a bit, within a certain range.

As the days go by in the ~14 day life of your tank of nutes, if you top up with plain water every day, you will notice that the ppm will drop. This is because the plants eat some of the nutes, accounting for the drop in nute strength ppm when the volume of water is returned to the same level as on mixing day.

If your tank is too small for the plants it is supplying, the ppm will rise as the water is used up; in this case, the plants are using the water faster than it is using up the nutes. If this is your case, do top up with plain water often.

If your tank is too large for the plants it is feeding, water level, ppm & pH won't move far from your mixing day targets. Good for plants but hard on the wallet as you'll be dumping out nutes that the plants have not been able to eat come the end of the 14 day life of your tank of sauce.

If your tank size is ideally matched to the plants it is supplying, the plants use up the water and nutes in the same proportion. The nute strength ppm will stay very close to what it was on mixing day, even as the water level drops. If you find that your ppm stays close to the same (within 10%) while the water level drops, your tank size is perfect and you don't need to top up with plain water between mixing a fresh tank of nutes.

Don't try to jockey the pH & nute strength daily to a specific number for the life of a tank of nutes (usually 2 weeks). You stand a greater chance of stuffing it up by messing with your tank of nutes.

In particular, don't add more nutrient concentrate to a half-eaten, existing tank of nutes in between mixing up fresh tanks. Nutrient mixes are engineered to provide N, P & K not just in adequate quantity but in proper proportion for a certain phase of growth. Flowering nutes, in example, have a high ratio of P to N & K. Plants may use N, P & K at differing rates at different stages of growth. When you mix up a fresh tank, the NPK ratios will be right, per the maker's intentions. After several days of that tank of sauce feeding the plants, let's say that half the P is gone, 1/4 of the N is used and 2/3 of the K is eaten. If you then add more nutrient concentrate, you're going to wind up with N, P & K in proportions that the maker did not intend- and may not be right for the plants.

Only add nute mixes to plain water when you are mixing up a fresh tank, never add more concentrate to an existing tank of sauce.

If your pH is bouncing up significantly (+0.5 or more) a couple days after you mix a new tank (without adding more tapwater), I've seen that caused by root disease problems. If your watering rate is OK, eliminating overwatering as a cause, but plants are showing signs of root problems (yellowing lower leaves, slow growth), try adding 50% grade H2O2 to your nutes at 1ml/L of tank volume, every 3-4 days (which you should be doing anyway). Mix for pH5.7, don't correct down unless it wanders above 6.3 or so.

Click to expand...

Al do you have a Canna nute chart? I know you have posted what you tanks are set at, someone else was asking and I don't use the canna. VV

Al B. Fuct said:

The red colour is probably vegetable dyes added to the various parts of your multipart nutes so you can tell them apart.

Since H2O2 is a strong oxidiser, like any good bleaching agent, I would expect it is probably breaking down the complex organic dye molecules and thus removing the colour.

It won't have any effect on inorganic materials like nutrients in the mixes, which can't be broken down any further by oxidising.

Click to expand...

thanks for all the info. Did you go to school to learn all of this or are you self taught? If you did go to school what classes did you take if you don't mind me asking.

What are all the benifits of H202? Does it help keep the roots of hydro system plants whiter? I know it adds oxygen to the root zone. Anything else?

VictorVIcious said:

Al do you have a Canna nute chart? I know you have posted what you tanks are set at, someone else was asking and I don't use the canna. VV

Click to expand...

sorry, no, haven't got a chart. To get 1400 ppm with Canna, I use 450ml each A & B in 125L water, which is 3.6ml each A & B nutes per litre of water.

edux10 said:

thanks for all the info. Did you go to school to learn all of this or are you self taught? If you did go to school what classes did you take if you don't mind me asking.

Click to expand...

Unfortunately, there's no accredited Marijuana University just yet. I have a couple of uni degrees, one is BS Elec Eng, which does come in handy in the grow room. Other than that, I have just a general science education from high school. Nothing related to horticulture or hydroponics; I am self-taught in that regard.

What are all the benifits of H202? Does it help keep the roots of hydro system plants whiter? I know it adds oxygen to the root zone. Anything else?

Click to expand...

H2O2 does a couple of things. As you said, it is used as a root oxygenator, but I rely mainly on 24/7/365 air pumps and bubble curtains in the tanks for oxygenation. My main purpose for H2O2 is pathogen suppression and control.