Al B. FAQt

A repost, just because I likes it:

You have just invested a few hundred in a centrif fan, some acoustic damped duct and a carbon filter. However, during lights off, you notice scents wafting around the grow room? What gives?

When the lights are off, the temps in the room may not come up high enough to trigger your thermostat running the exhaust blower. Absent the blower running to push scents through the carbon filter, scents will leak where ever there is a tiny air gap in your room construction. Keeping the room at negative pressure causes air to be drawn inward through those little gaps, keeping all air exiting the op going through the carbon filter.

If you wire a fan motor speed controller in parallel with a thermostat, when the temp setpoint is reached, the fan motor does not shut off- it just slows down to whatever the speed controller is set for, could be 20-30% normal speed. This both keeps air moving through the carbon filter at all times, sucking air into the room via any air leaks, but also reduces wear on fan motors as the start pulse puts the highest forces on the bearings.

When the temp rises back up to the setpoint, the motor speed controller is bypassed and the blower motor runs at full speed until the setpoint is again reached.

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i have a question, sorry if its been convered. Is it possible to do SOG harvest 2 weeks in a rubbermaid plant setup, where there are 8+ plants per a rubbermaid container?

If you're talking storage tub size containers (~500mm tall), don't expect much. Such a box invites use of fluoros (or CFLs) for flowering, which will yield tiny amounts of fluffy bud. Time waster, same as PC cabinet or Aerogarden attempts. My clonebox is bigger than all those examples. It may be a clever novelty to grow some midget plants in a tiny box but I've never seen anything like that make useful amounts of good smoke.

If you seriously want to grow practical amounts of dope, where you can't smoke 3 months' work in 3 days, start with a freestanding wardrobe (apx 2m x 1.5m x .5m) or at the lower limit, something as small as a very large chest of drawers, with a 250HPS and good temp control- a cooltube is highly recommended if not required. I have seen SoG wardrobes and similarly sized grow tents crank out 1-2oz of good solid buds every 2 weeks because these are big enough to use a small HPS.

Al B. Fuct said:

A repost, just because I likes it:

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Al, explain to me how this works. Im no stranger to electrical work automotive or residential but Im not getting how going parallel is varying speed.

Is it because when the thermostat says "RUN" its the path of least resistance and it follows that path to the fan? Then when it says "STOP" it now just diverts to the new path of least resistance (the non open end of the circuit) and now has to go thru the speed controller?

I just want to be clear how it works as it looks like it would go zonkers having two paths to the load. I would have been a bit worried about feedback or something.

Al, I saw where you told one guy to lollipop aggressive. How much do you recommend to lolliepop a plant to get a good size cola?

Also,
The PPM in my water is between 300-400. So that will still be ok? Also how long should I wait before giving my week old seedlings a small amount of nutes in soil. I don't understand the subtracting the tapwater ppm from the nute formula to get your ppms.
Thanks for all your help!

hybrid said:

A
Is it because when the thermostat says "RUN" its the path of least resistance and it follows that path to the fan? Then when it says "STOP" it now just diverts to the new path of least resistance (the non open end of the circuit) and now has to go thru the speed controller?

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Exactly right. The thermostat is just a switch. When the thermostat's contacts are closed, current simply ignores the path through the speed controller.

When the tstat contacts are closed, the speed controller's input and output are at the same voltage potential (connected by the thermostat's switch) and thus does nothing.

pimpnitjc said:

Al, I saw where you told one guy to lollipop aggressive. How much do you recommend to lolliepop a plant to get a good size cola?

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Remove all branching on the lower 1/3 of the mainstem. Pretty much remove any branch that is more than an inch long. I prune off branching twice during flowering, once around the end of wk1 and again at the end of wk3. This will keep everything nice and close to the mainstem, preventing crowding with similarly pruned plants. A SoG plant can live in a 100mm^2 floorspace (4 per sf).

Also, The PPM in my water is between 300-400. So that will still be ok?

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Yep, that's fine. Your nutrient meter is a Total Dissolved Solids (or Salts) meter. It's a pretty crude way of measuring but effective for our purposes, if you know what's going on in your solution. A TDS meter tells you about the overall conductivity of the solution but doesn't identify each ionic compound which contributes to conductivity. Dissolved Mg and Ca in 'hard' tapwater will give you that high conductivity out of the tap but those elements, while they are essential micronutes, are not very reactive and don't contribute to the nutrient strength.

I don't understand the subtracting the tapwater ppm from the nute formula to get your ppms.

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If you want a genuine 1400ppm worth of nutrient strength and you have 300ppm out of the tap, mix for 1700.

Also how long should I wait before giving my week old seedlings a small amount of nutes in soil.

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Wait- you're in soil? Depends on what's in your soil. If you have a lot of organics or manures in the soil, you won't want to hit them with a 1400ppm nute solution. That number is for hydroponics. I'm not a soil guy.

Soiled again. VVlol

hah!

It's off to the PUNITENTIARY with you, VV.

Hey AL, I got my temps down to about 78deg.
But some of my plants are now 4ft tall! At 24 days flowering.
Even if the temps were at around 80-85 would that cause 6-9in clones to grow that big?
I hope they stop growing im out of room =(

Thanks for your help!

CG, I suspect your temps were even higher than 85. Yep, even a 6-9" clone will shoot right up to 4' with high temps. You've proven it!

If you haven't worked out some better ventilation, um, you know, it might kinda be time to slot that in kinda soon, like about 3 weeks ago.

couldnt she just use some of that humbolt county bushmaster to stunt it?

hybrid said:

couldnt she just use some of that humbolt county bushmaster to stunt it?

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If that's a strain (one which comes up short?), special strains are not really needed in SoG. If the temps are kept to the right range (24-26C), in a SoG op where the rooted clones get zero veg time post setting root, most any strain will stop gaining height in wk4 at about 1m/3ft.

Thanks ABF,
Im ready to put in my next batch of clones, I have 1000k light for each pair of 3x3 tables. Should i put the next batch under a new 1000k light since the plants in my first tray is 3-4 ft tall? Or its ok if they share a light? =)

CALIGIRL said:

Thanks ABF,
Im ready to put in my next batch of clones, I have 1000k light for each pair of 3x3 tables. Should i put the next batch under a new 1000k light since the plants in my first tray is 3-4 ft tall? Or its ok if they share a light? =)

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1000k? You mean 1000W, right?

They can share a light, but since you only have 2 batches in at the moment, you do have the luxury of running the tall and short ones under their own individual 1000, with the clearance appropriate for each batch's height.

In future, if your temps are sorted out, your wk2-4 plants in tray2 will be about triple the height of the wk1-2 newbies in tray1. By wk4, your tallest plants should be about 3' and the 1000 in a cooltube should be about 12-18" above them. This will mean that the lamp will be about 3.5 - 4' above the tops of the tray1 newbies. This is no problem at all; the younguns will have previously been in a clonebox under fluoros. They might scorch if you brought them directly from under weak fluoro lighting to a powerful cooltubed 1000 at the optimal spacing for more mature plants, 12-18". Beginning their exposure to the big light with a large amount of space allows them to harden and acclimate to the stronger light without scorching their tender new growth. They will grow into the brighter light as they like it.

If you choose to run the newbies under your second cooltubed 1000, space the lamp about 3-3.5' off their tops for wk1 and drop it down to 2' for wk2.

Keep in mind that if you haven't sorted out your temp issues, a 2nd 1000 is going to make things worse.

Also, a 1000 is not inexpensive to run. If you can run only one right now, it'll save you some dough. Eventually you will have them both running, but may as well save water while it's raining.

Al B. Fuct,,,Hey What's UP????,,,,,,,,,

Do You Have A Thread On CoolTube's?????,,,,,,,,,I Need To Add Some To My Grow Chamber!!!,,,,,,I Have 1000watter's In Each & It's Getting To Hot,,,,,,,I Want To Add A CoolTube With A 465cfm Active Air Fan To Each One,,,,,,Can You Give Me Some Feed-Back On The Subject????

Also, I Have Light Mover's With All The Light Horizontally,,,,,,,In One Chamber I Was Thinking Of Taking The Light Mover Out, & Center The Light Vertical With The CoolTube????,,,,,,,,,What Are Your That's On That????

My Grow Chamber's Are 7' Long x 3' Wide, Some Are 7'-8" Tall & Some Are 5'-6" Tall,,,,I Use Aeroponic's, Each Has 2-Pod' Side By Side On Each End Of The Chamber,,,There Is About 12" To 16" Between Them In The Center,,The Intake Exhaust Are 465cfm Blower's Each Have Circulating Fan's,,,And Are Linked To 1200cfm Exhaust System,,,,,,,I Have Been Able To Keep The Temp's Around 79* To 8o* As Peak,,,,,,,I Have Added Some UV. Supplementary Lighting A Few Year's Back That Brought The Temp's Up To About 85* To 87*,,,,,,,,But With This Summer's Heat Wave They Have Been Soreing To 97* To 100*.........Hopefully Adding The CoolTubes To The HID Light's Can Help Bring Them Back Down????

I'll Add A Picture Of A Chamber, Or Two, To Give You A Idea Of What I'm Working Out Of........Thank's In Advance,,,,,,,,& Best Of luck With Your Work's!!!!,,,,,,,,Later,HATCH

HATCH said:

Al B. Fuct,,,Hey What's UP????,,,,,,,,,

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you, baby

Do You Have A Thread On CoolTube's?????,,,,,,,,,I Need To Add Some To My Grow Chamber!!!,,,,,,I Have 1000watter's In Each & It's Getting To Hot,,,,,,,I Want To Add A CoolTube With A 465cfm Active Air Fan To Each One,,,,,,Can You Give Me Some Feed-Back On The Subject????

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No thread on cooltubes, but I've discussed them a few times.

465CFM is far too much for a cooltube. Cooltubes require their own blower which runs at all times that lights are on, but it need not be very large or powerful in most cases. They cannot share the blower that exhausts the room, as that exhaust blower will be on a thermostat, which will turn the fan on and off from time to time. The stoppage of air during lights on by the thermostat would cause the cooltubes to overheat.

Cooltubes are usually 150mm dia and you can daisy-chain 3 in series, each housing a 1000, all driven by one 150mm axial blower (about 200CFM) pushing cool air into the ducting and running on a timer, set to switch on during lights-on, plus continue running about 15 mins after lights-off to cool down the lamps & sockets.

Also, I Have Light Mover's With All The Light Horizontally,,,,,,,In One Chamber I Was Thinking Of Taking The Light Mover Out, & Center The Light Vertical With The CoolTube????,,,,,,,,,What Are Your That's On That????

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I'm not sure what you mean by "Center The Light Vertical With The CoolTube".

Cooltubes can be challenging to use with movers, should you keep your mover. Must use flexible duct and assure that it stays connected to the cooltubes as things shift around.

I Have Added Some UV. Supplementary Lighting A Few Year's Back That Brought The Temp's Up To About 85* To 87*,,,,,,,,But With This Summer's Heat Wave They Have Been Soreing To 97* To 100*.........Hopefully Adding The CoolTubes To The HID Light's Can Help Bring Them Back Down????

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I'd ditch the UV, not necessary with HPS lighting. HPS spews out plenty of UV, enough to trash non-UV stabilised plastics (bleaching, brittleness) left in the grow room, just as would happen to such plastics in sunlight.

Properly set up cooltubes will remove the vast majority of the lighting heat from the room. A basic setup looks like this:




This is a closed circuit path for the cooltubes. Cooltube air is drawn from outside the room airmass and dumped outside it as well. If the air going into the intake blower is 25C or below and there is sufficient throughflow, you should be able to keep the room at 25C max.

If the ambient air you have available to draw in is hotter than the 25C target, the only thing that will bring it down is aircon. If you must use aircon, cooltubes will make it work much less often- read 'much cheaper'. With aircon, the intake & exhaust blowers should not be on a thermostat, rather should be run on a digital timer for 5 mins/hour during lights on. The aircon will manage the temp & humidity but the exhaust blower needs to run occasionally to draw in CO2 laden air and dump CO2 depleted air.

The cooltube ducting should be as short and straight as possible. Don't be tempted to allow the cooltube to draw air from inside the room (especially if you have aircon). This will affect temperature stability. If the total length of your duct & cooltubes is more than about 4m or if you have more than a couple 90 deg bends in the path, consider a centrifugal blower instead of an axial. Axials don't deal well with pushing into obstructions or long ducts. Centrifs can generate high pressure and cope much better with such demands.

In this pic, I see a bunch of CFLs running along with some HPS lighting.

This is like having a model airplane engine on the nose of your 747 to help out your jet engines. The amount of light added by CFLs when you have HPS is insignificant. Save your money & ditch the CFLs.

Thank You Kindly Sir!!!!!,,,,,,,,This Help's Alot,,,,,& Thank You For Pionting Out My Mistake's,,,,,,,That Will Help Me Tremendously!!!!!!!

I Will Be Making These Changing ASAP!!!

In The Question, Where I Was Asking About Inverting A Light Vertically In One Of My Taller Chamber's, & Centering A 1000w.HPS In The Center So It Shined 360*,,,,,,The Question Is, Would It Be Better Vertical In This Space In The Center Or In The Center Horizontal????

I Like Your Drawing,,,,,,& That Is What I Will Be Doing With The Chamber's That Are 5'-6" & Take Out The Light Track, & Use maybe 400w,MH + 400w.HPS????,,,,,Or Just 2-HPS 430HPS????,,,,That Would Be About 800w. To 860w. Total..........Wouldn't 2000w. Be Way To Much For 21sqft????

I Would Love To Get The Chamber's Back To 25c!!!!,,,,Can't Wait On That!!!,,,,,,,I Know I'm Repeating This But, Thank You, Thank You, For The Input,,,,,,,,Some-Time's Seeing It Through Another Pair Of Eye's & Thought's Are Priceless!!!!!!!!

You aswered without asking,thats y i follow al.