AMA Finally Gets It!

Exactly.....

Hamas officer to underling :

Abdul, Where are the last shipment of rockets from Iran?

Underling: Uhh, I don't know. hey did you ever notice that if you open and shut ur eyes really quickly, it's like a old time movie? try it?!! It's kewl!!

Shot rings out ....

CrackerJax said:

Exactly.....

Hamas officer to underling :

Abdul, Where are the last shipment of rockets from Iran?

Underling: Uhh, I don't know. hey did you ever notice that if you open and shut ur eyes really quickly, it's like a old time movie? try it?!! It's kewl!!

Shot rings out ....

Click to expand...

A shuttering camera effect, I love when the government in some form admits its wrong!

No one admits anything until their power wanes, and they're off the front page.

Jax usually I respect your opinion but I think you are really far off in your predictions. We are a long way from having the FDA regulate Marijuana as a medicine.

I really don't understand why you feel the need to be right about something you are so far away and disconnected from. It is pretty obvious that the industry is BRAND NEW, IMO any predictions made for such a young market are asinine; especially when the person making the prediction lives in such an ANTI-pot state.

Things are changing for the better wether you believe it or not. Your arguments of "medical necessity" have been rehashed by the conservative nay-sayers in my state for years. The point is the Judges continue to rule in favor of patients and doctors regardless of their said "illness". Their reason being . . . cops, judges, and lawyers are not doctors and therefore the consensus is they should not be the ones deciding who can have MMJ.

I also find it very hard to believe that the FDA would be successful at keeping cannabis in the hands of only commercial growers. Too many people grow their own pot now days it would be like trying to shut down everyones home-brew operation in the country.

Like I stated before you should visit one of the MMJ states like California or Colorado where the dispensary model is going strong. Talk to a dispensary owner, talk to some patients. Otherwise you are talking out your ass based on little real world experience in the industry.

Jax usually I respect your opinion but I think you are really far off in your predictions. We are a long way from having the FDA regulate marijuana as a medicine.

I've only been on this thread for some few minutes now and its crackerjax emphasis on the "future" not at the immediate moment, the whole fda regulation of marijuana is something in the future when it may go national. You have to realize that, read a few of his post and you'll catch his drift!

Great discussion, everyone. But I'd still like to know why Jax can not separate in his mind small personal use home grows from bigger grows intended for sale?

I understand that there is much to worry about and work at as the movement grows. Jax has made some good points about that. But why, why does he keep returning to the idea that the Fed will help big AG by outlawing and going after small personal use home grows? Why does he keep assuming that there are no grows for any other reason than sales and profit?

And why does he stick to predicting disaster and never points the way to any kind of acceptable solution? If it's going to be so bad, how do we avoid that, Jax? Or are we just all doomed and reduced to discussing how much that sucks?

This is really good news! Happy Thanksgiving rollitup.

Eire said:

Great discussion, everyone. But I'd still like to know why Jax can not separate in his mind small personal use home grows from bigger grows intended for sale?

I understand that there is much to worry about and work at as the movement grows. Jax has made some good points about that. But why, why does he keep returning to the idea that the Fed will help big AG by outlawing and going after small personal use home grows? Why does he keep assuming that there are no grows for any other reason than sales and profit?

And why does he stick to predicting disaster and never points the way to any kind of acceptable solution? If it's going to be so bad, how do we avoid that, Jax? Or are we just all doomed and reduced to discussing how much that sucks?

Click to expand...

It is sort of an "over stipulation of the idea" that the DEA would actually confine and take away the priviledge of personal home grown operations. But the barter system can be one cruel system, especially in the american economy!

In my view you gotta get the basics straight and not confuse them before you can reasonably discuss the various issues. To that end as I see it there are three groups of individuals who support any kind of legalization.

First there are those who just want to purchase and use it legally so they have no worries about troubles that may occur if they were illegal.

Second there are those who wish to have a small, private grow for personal use because they like growing and/or wish to save money and/or want to maintain a stable supply of a know quality and/or want to keep their private activities private.

Third there are those who want to be involved in the production and sale of marijuana.

Each person has their own reasons and motivations for supporting various tactics and goals for legalization. That's totally normal and acceptable.

The question is how can we promote legalization so that we can best protect the interests of everyone involved?

Will promoting medical marijuana lead to the downfall of small to medium scale production and sales as it seems Jax is predicting?

Does this mean that we should support only full legalization or nothing? If so, then how do we successfully promote full legalization when the majority is barely willing to accept medical marijuana? If not, how can we support medical marijuana so that we can keep small and medium operations viable?

It seems obvious that medical marijuana is the quickest and easiest way to satisfy the first two groups of individuals. But if it leads to a de-facto ban on the third, should the first two give up what they can get now in order to protect the third group at some distant future time?

Once we have decided which way to go, then we must discuss all the problems we might face and how to address them and possibly head them off before they occur.

But the bottom line is that there must be a way, we must make a way to move forward with an eye on all these issues. We can't just decide that it's hopeless and give up. That is not an option.

If the Federal govt EVER gives the nod to National MMJ, it will be because there is a tax to be collected form it. Home growers would subvert the taxes. It would be MUCH EASIER for the Govt. to have large corporate growers in charge of production. Maximizing taxes is what it's all about in Govt. It's the easy way to go, and that's exactly the pattern of govt. Path of least resistance.

I'm certainly not against the small grower. I am one...

BUT, if weed goes national and is considered a medical drug, well, I just know big AG & PHarma will tag team.

Full blown legalization? Then you can figure that Big Tobacco will get the nod from the govt. for production.

There just isn't any pattern of "more individual rights" emanating from the US Govt. It's the other way around lately...

I agree with you entirely here.

But I also think that Fed involvement is inevitable. So the bigs who want to market it will push to re-classify it to the same level as beer and wine for their own benefit. The AMA is already preparing the way. That way, their consumer base will not be as limited as it is under medical codes. So it is likely to remain medical only so long as it is only in the hands of the states.

Plus, the bigs would also benefit by following the example of beer and wine where small micros do all the hard work of inventing new recipes and creating local markets for them. Then the bigs can buy out the micros and it is a financial win-win for both.

I realize that it could go the other way. I'm not betting for or against it at this point. But if we want it to go our way then we have gotta make sure we stay involved.

On another note, today I was surprised to find that many people think it is good to stall further reform in CA right now. They want to give the current system time to flesh out and settle a bit, give the govt time to appreciate the extra tax income, and they want some people to get flush and influential from it so that there are some heavyweights to deal with if the govt tries to get hinky (yes, even though it's supposed to be non-profit, ha).

I also heard that there are indeed some big corps moving in (I forget who specifically, but probably big AG & Pharma) and they're telling the govt to tread carefully or else.

This is all mostly just talk I heard, but it made me say hmmmm.

If there's big profit available, big corp's will show up.

Right now MMJ is a "cottage" industry. National acceptance will change all that.

That's been my main point in these posts....

True, true. I just don't think it will stay medical once it goes national.

love this thread, i'm beginning to think we may see some major federal change within a year or 2
i had been thinking it was going to be a state thing, there would be slow progress, and eventually there would be some federal changes
but the AMA is so 'joined at the hip' with the medical/federal bureaucracy, they don't make major moves without some kind of ok
so i'm beginning to think there is more progress on this front than i would have expected a few months ago

Yes, I just read an article on cannabisnews.org where they posit that within 5 years a majority of all Americans will favor legalization. Right now there's a majority in the West but not in the East. But they said that support is growing by 2 percent per year.

Constitutionally, the process should entail changes being made at the state level first (like what's happening now). If enough states follow MMj, then the tipping point will have been reached.

CrackerJax said:

Constitutionally, the process should entail changes being made at the state level first (like what's happening now). If enough states follow MMj, then the tipping point will have been reached.

Click to expand...

I'm thinking of what's likely to be a major federal move. I'm not sure how the drug scheduling system works, but I think there may be a major change without legislation. Glad to hear from anybody more informed if this is not the case.

Except for national defense and national highways, all things should be worked out at the state level. That's what the founding fathers envisioned. It's what is happening right now.

Things are happening in the background but I'm not in the loop either:
Allen St. Pierre, the executive director of the National Organization for the Reform of Marijuana Laws, said he was astonished recently to be invited to contribute thoughts to the Office of National Drug Control Policy. Obama's drug czar, Gil Kerlikowske, was police chief in Seattle, where voters officially made enforcement of marijuana laws the lowest priority.
"I've been thrown out of the ONDCP many times," St. Pierre said. "Never invited to actually participate."

Another history making moment...

OregonMeds said:

Things are happening in the background but I'm not in the loop either:
Allen St. Pierre, the executive director of the National Organization for the Reform of Marijuana Laws, said he was astonished recently to be invited to contribute thoughts to the Office of National Drug Control Policy. Obama's drug czar, Gil Kerlikowske, was police chief in Seattle, where voters officially made enforcement of marijuana laws the lowest priority.
"I've been thrown out of the ONDCP many times," St. Pierre said. "Never invited to actually participate."

Another history making moment...

Click to expand...

yeah, this is the stuff i'm seeing
i've no inside knowledge, but from the looks of it, a deal is being cut
my guess is there is going to be some rescheduling soon with MM more freely accessible in the clinical setting