AMAZING growth pattern. mutant or pheno?

Erysichthon

Erysichthon

Well-Known Member
wow, that plant is super cool crazy. as someone said you should clone it and see if the clones hold the tripod characteristics. this is the first time ive seen this and i cant wait to see how it goes. good luck with it.

Ery
 
colem8

colem8

Well-Known Member
Seems complicated, should i learn how to do?? and is it hard?? Do you end up with more growth? cheers!
 
marijuanajoe1982

marijuanajoe1982

Well-Known Member
WalkedOnTheMoon said:
yeh this is called whorled phyllotaxy. From what i have heard they usually end up male, has anyone seen a female with this characteristc?
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Ok! that is some good information right there! +rep for actually giving me the name of something to look up. This particular plant is, as of right now, unsexed. Everyone will know which way it goes when it happens, I'll let ya know. Even if it does go male, I would still want to get his pollen to see if seeds created using it could pass on this characteristic, and if ANY that did could go female. No matter what happens I feel blessed with these couple plants. Mutations or whatever, they are still cool, and considering I don't have hundreds of plants, it sure does seem like I have more genetic diversity in these 3 strains than I have ever in my few years of experience
I live in the same state as Hanford, but I haven't had mutations before. Who knows?! lol

I should say, on the issue of tripod cloning, that I have been observing all branches on the plant, and not just the top. The only place it shows this growth pattern is right out the top. The other branches, even the one that is kinda like another top, show a regular growth pattern. Doesn't this mean that If I clone them, they will most likely not exhibit the tri-nodal structure? Not to say she wouldn't make a good clone mother, she has 33% more branches to take clones from! I just think they would be regular blackberry. Is it possible that they would switch? Or is the only way I'm gonna be able to find out be by trying it for myself?

I also have a unique pheno of the Barneys G13 Haze that is alot more Indica than any of the others. My Avatar is a picture of it, but from a little while ago, it's gettin' to be a foot tall, and is taller than any other plants, except a couple of the more Sativa G13 Hazes. My thinking is, this is probably gonna be the closest thing I'll ever have to whatever the fuck G13 is... So I also have 'high' :blsmoke: hopes for these plants. With as many unique plants as I have, odds are at lest one or two will be female *Crosses Fingers*. I hope.

Also, just to clarify... This isn't a special method or anything, I just happened to have a seed that became a plant with a very unusual branching pattern. Dumb luck, maybe.
 
colem8

colem8

Well-Known Member
Sounds pretty bloody wicked to me. So this could happen with any seed/strain for any seed bank...? so it just luck?
 
marijuanajoe1982

marijuanajoe1982

Well-Known Member
colem8 said:
Sounds pretty bloody wicked to me. So this could happen with any seed/strain for any seed bank...? so it just luck?
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I do not know how common it is. from what I'm hearing, it's pretty rare, and often just goes away after a couple nodes. This is probably an anomoly but the genetics I'm using are Vancouver Island Seed Company's (VISC) Blackberry.

I have tried to contact them, but so far no reply. I will give it another try, I want to know if they have seen it before in this variety, meaning perhaps that it just a rare phenotype in this case, or if it is indeed the condition named by my friend at the bottom of page 2.

Either way you are probably not likely to encounter it. Ive grown many plants outdoors and have never seen it before, but that doesn't mean you won't. Anything is possible. I got 2 random mutations, and several very unique and rare (from what I hear) phenotypes in just my small batch of plants, so you could have a crazy grow like the one I am having right now, lol. It sure is making it fun :blsmoke:

Good luck finding one. who knows, maybe It will pass on and I will have seeds. If it turns out to be something that can be stabilized (unlikely) I will start my own seed bank based on the Tripod! lol :mrgreen:
 
marijuanajoe1982

marijuanajoe1982

Well-Known Member
Thanks. From what I can gather, phyllotaxy is a botanical term describing the way plants grow. It describes, particularly, the way that new leaves come out in relation to one another.

There are several different kinds of phyllotaxy. Normal Cannabis Sativa has an "opposite phyllotaxy" which means that 2 leaves sprout, opposite of eachother, at each node. My strange blackberry plant is exhibiting a "whorled phyllotaxy," Meaning that 3 new branches sprout at each new node. God, I'm hoping it turns female! We'll see, I dont want to count 'em before they hatch. So basically I don't know any more about why this happened, but at least now I can say my plant is exhibiting "whorled phyllotaxy, as opposed to the normal "opposite phyllotaxy" that should be happening.

My camera needs new batteries, so I don't have any new pictures. I just fertilized, using a special Veg blend of Techniflora nutes, with my last watering. This will be the 2nd and last time I have used Veg nutes on them, they will veg for another week or two, and then I'm switching to flowering. The next time I fertilize, it will be with a techniflora flower blend! I'm getting excited because I'm gonna see who my mommas and poppas are within the month!
 
colem8

colem8

Well-Known Member
lol, dont get too excited bro, positive vibes apparently help your grow tho, haha.
Good luck to ya and fingers crossed they're females :)
 
speedhabit

speedhabit

Well-Known Member
I think its got an extra chromy in there...

My plant has three internodes and shoots instead of two.
Trifoliates or triploids are common to cannabis as a plant species. They possess three sets of chromosomes instead of the usual two. Approx. 2% of the population in Mandala strains exhibit this trait. So for every 100 seeds there are max. 2 plants. About 60% of trifoliates turn out to be males. From the females you have 20% with a higher yield than normal (due to the extra node and vigour), 20% are just under average, and the rest are normal performers.

(mandalaseeds.com go to the faq)
 
marijuanajoe1982

marijuanajoe1982

Well-Known Member
speedhabit said:
I think its got an extra chromy in there...

My plant has three internodes and shoots instead of two.
Trifoliates or triploids are common to cannabis as a plant species. They possess three sets of chromosomes instead of the usual two. Approx. 2% of the population in Mandala strains exhibit this trait. So for every 100 seeds there are max. 2 plants. About 60% of trifoliates turn out to be males. From the females you have 20% with a higher yield than normal (due to the extra node and vigour), 20% are just under average, and the rest are normal performers.

(mandalaseeds.com go to the faq)
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Ok, so there's not like a 99% chance it will go male or anything. Thats good to know. I got a 40% of it being a girl! Thats only 10% below average, not too bad. I think if this goes female it will be a high yeilder, it is one of my tallest plants, and definitely my bushiest. It's the biggest of it's strain. I'll go take some new pictures tonight when it cools off a little. It's like 80 degrees out there! well, it was earlier anyway, probably a little cooler by now. This seed did not come from Mandala, but I guess even seeds from other companies can end up with an extra set of chromosomes! I wonder if these plants are able to pass these traits on to the next generation or not? I will check out that FAQ. Thanks for the info, +rep for that, homie!
 
daydrops

daydrops

Well-Known Member
some kind of mutant freak of nature. and now your haze is freakin' out, too? do you live in the three mile island area?

i say: thank mother earth for this little extra boost. you could have a giant producer there if it doesn't grow out of it.

clone that thing if it's a girl, or cross it with your haze if its a boy, or another mutant tri-podder.

good luck, bro.
 
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WalkedOnTheMoon

Active Member
taken from another forum
"Polyploids and plants with whorled phylotaxy are not the same thing. Or even related.
- Phyllotaxy refers to the orderly arrangement of leaves on the stem. The "decision"
regarding how leaves are arranged is made at the Shoot Apical Meristem as each new leaf is
initiated. Various phyllotaxy patterns tend to maximize the distance between
nearby leaf primordia, which prevents mature leaves from shading each other
- alternate phyllotaxy: one leaf per node
- leaves may be spirally arranged; the angle between successive leaves is
approximately 137.5° (related to the Golden ratio, the Fibonacci series)
- distichous phyllotaxy: 180° between leaves; this occurs in pea and most
grasses
- opposite phyllotaxy: 2 leaves per node, which are opposite to each other; this
pair of leaves is offset by 90° relative to leaves at adjacent nodes
- whorled phyllotaxy: 3 or more leaves per node

Anyway, not much is known about the regulation and control behind leaf
primordia formation. But genetic studies have indicated that a single gene or two
can make a lot of difference.

From Marijuana Botonay: Whorled phyllotaxy is associated with subsequent anomalies in the growth cycle (i.e., multiple leaflets and flattened or clubbed stems). Also, most whorled plants are staminate and whorled phyllotaxy may be sex-linked."

so theres your answer
 
speedhabit

speedhabit

Well-Known Member
Yeah, triploids arent all that rare, not some new discovery or anything, and although it may have more branches, its still the same uptake system undersoil so your dealing with the same yeilding potential as any other plant, just love em till you kill them then smoke them.
 
marijuanajoe1982

marijuanajoe1982

Well-Known Member
From what I understand so far based off what I've heard here and researched myself, a "whorled phyllotaxy" is just a way to describe the growth pattern of any plant that shoots out three leaves per node. Marijuana usually has an "opposite phyllotaxy," but for some reason my Blackberry plant is growing with a "whorled phyllotaxy." However, I must say that what I real about triploids also describes this plant very well.

Now, I don't know everything there is to know about this, but maybe a "triploid" and a "polyploid" are two different things. From what I have read about polyploids, particularly the famed "Canadian Polyploids" from some research project, they sound very different from my Blackberry. Also, these polyploids were germinated in some chemical as seeds in order to produce their mutations, which seemed to relate more to thier flowering period and thier vigorous growth than having an extra branch. You seem really knowledgeable, definitely more knowledgeable that I, so I could be wrong.

Also, I can already tell this plant is gonna yeild alot if it goes female. It is the biggest of it's strain, and has been since day I. This plant practically jumped out of the ground as seedlings, and was my biggest plant out of all of them until some of the G13 Hazes caught up. When all my plants were one week old, this plant looked like it was two. It's leaves just started out bigger when they folded out. If this goes male, it's pollinating every mom I have, and if it goes female, I'm breeding her with every stud male I have. Aside from the tri-nodes and the branch that wants to be a second top, this was the most vigorous seedling with the gnarliest fastest growing root structure of ANY of my plants, regardless of strain. If there's a chance any of this can be passed on to my F1 generation, I'm gonna make it happen. If not, well it was still the best plant in it's strain, so it should breed well anyway. Im just happy to have it.

Also, I was thinking about breeding it and the Haze that decided it would top itself if they end up being of the opposite sex. God, that Haze is crazy too, I should take some more pics. When I checked yesterday it looked like there was a "new" top sprouting out from right in the middle of the split where the plant topped itself. So if that thing keeps growing, i could have a plant that grows three tops without any interference. I have often wondered if being in the same state as Hanford, one of our governments oldest and dirtiest nuclear facilities, has anything to do with this. But I have grown outdoors for a while now, And I've never seen this kind of genetic variation. It also seems like I have a couple unique phenotypes that others growing the same variety said they have never seen. I don't know whats up, but I'm glad to have all these different choices for mothers and fathers!
 
W

WalkedOnTheMoon

Active Member
well, a square is a rectangle but a rectangle isnt a square.... not all polyploid plants have whorled phyllotaxy, it is possible that your plant does in fact have more than 2 chromosome pairs, but it is just as reasonable to believe it as a genetic defect while the plant is still diploid. A Triploid plant wouldnt consist of just one extra chromosome but an extra chromosome for each chromosome the plant possesses. Most polyploid plants just retard out
 
M

mrbluntbuddy420

Active Member
marijuanajoe1982 said:
- Ok I am currently growing several different varieties. One of them is "Blackberry" from Vancouver Island Seed Bank (VISC). Out of all the different plants of all varieties, including it's own, this one individual plant just ROCKETED out of the ground, and untill about 2 and a half weeks ago was twice the size or more than ANY other plant in my indoor setup.

- Well, it started slowing down it's initial growth and many of the G13 Haze's have caught up in size. I think the reason for this was that, about 2 and a half weeks ago, it started showing an odd growth pattern. At each node, it started shooting out 3 branches instead of 2. there have been several new sets of nodes since then, and all of them but one have 3 branches at the node. even the one 2 branched site has 3 sets of leaves growing around the stalk at the node, so it still gives 3 bud sites even at the two branched node. Does anyone have experience with this happening before, with this strain or any other?

- As if this wasn't weird enough already, this same plant exhibits another strange characteristic. One of the branches coming off the first tri-node didn't become a fan leaf, instead becoming basically another top. It's node formation is even stranger than the main stalk though. kinda like one longer node that shoots out 3 branches about 1cm apart. So basically I have a plant growing 2 tops and 3 branches at basically every node instead of the usual two. CannaSeur coined the name "Tripod" for this lil' thing (not sexed yet, still vegging), and I give credit where credit is due.
This plant was not topped or anything, same conditions as every other plant, which are, for the most part, doing pretty good. There is a little nute burn on the tips of the lowest leaves, although I have fertilized literally only one time and it was way after this stuff started happening. Also, I over-watered a little bit when they were younger, this may be evident in some photos where you can see a little fan leaf distorsion. This problem was corrected upom transplanting into the larger (3 gal.) pots they are in now. Neither of these serve as plausible explanations for me, I think it is genetic.

- This plant is one of the best plants in my garden. It has actually grown alot since I took those pics just a couple days ago, i will update in my next post with newer pics. the g13 Hazes didn't seem too effected by the over-watering, but still only a couple of them are taller, though definitely not as bushy.

- I am trying to post some pictures with this message so people who know a thing or two can take a look-see and tell me what they think. I will obviously be cloning this baby, and pretty soon, too! Anyway I'm really hoping I post these pictures correctly, this will be a hard story to believe without pictures to back up the claims.

- Ok I'm having a hard time postimg pictures, so I'll work on that. It's saying a 'security token' is missing, and that I need to contact an admin? I was hoping it was gonna be easy, I'll get pics up here as soon as I can. any help with this would be appreciated also, I'm too stoned to deal with this right now...

- I think I may have some pictures of it in my 'album', not im my gallery tho. I'm really new here and I dont know how to do much, sorry.
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I have a 3 purple star plants ( Purple Urkle x Sensi Star) plants, all about 3 weeks of flowering. anyway, one of them has three branches at each node from the second node up. Mine was from a really messed up pH. If you have nute burn, you might wanna check that. Btw the other two had perfect pH and grew normally. Also the one that has three branches also isnt turning purple like the other two :[
 
natmoon

natmoon

Well-Known Member
I have only had one triploid female so far ever so i wouldn't get your hopes up yet but keep your fingers crossed you may get lucky.
I pollinated mine and have seeds:mrgreen:
 
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marijuanajoe1982

marijuanajoe1982

Well-Known Member
WalkedOnTheMoon said:
well, a square is a rectangle but a rectangle isnt a square.... not all polyploid plants have whorled phyllotaxy, it is possible that your plant does in fact have more than 2 chromosome pairs, but it is just as reasonable to believe it as a genetic defect while the plant is still diploid. A Triploid plant wouldnt consist of just one extra chromosome but an extra chromosome for each chromosome the plant possesses. Most polyploid plants just retard out
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Yeah, thats what I had read about the Canadian Polyploids. The leaves would be like one giant serrated oval on one branch, and then another with like 12 leaves. Sounds strange, I read a thread on this forum where a guy bred his regular stuff with these polyploids he got from a trucker. He said the polyploids went all retarded, like you said. Once he had bred them to about 1/4 polyploid genetics, 3/4 regular plant genetics, they resulted in really strong versions of what he started out with, or so he claims. No pictures, of course, lol.

Also, I was sorta thinking that it might be possible for something like this to happen with as little as one or two genes out of place. I don't necessarily see it as "obviously" having an extra set of chromies, but I don't really have a way to test it either,lol. So wether it is triploid, or just a diploid with a whorled phyllotaxy I am happy :blsmoke:
 
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