amending as you go?

im4satori · Apr 13, 2017

ok
i can axe the peat in the re-amendment

i had fish meal in my original amendments mix but i removed it in fear it might be too much N
if it ends up light on N i figured N is easy to add with a liquid fish or something i could water in, then next time add the fish meal if the first mix ends up light on the N

how does the partial re-amendment look?
does it look a bit hot?

the idea being to turn the soil with every other grow cycle?

im4satori · Apr 13, 2017

greasemonkeymann said:
just remember that potassium can be a lil sensitive, you don't want too much, you don't want to mess up the cation balance between cal, mag and potassium.
they are related, too much is a problem.
cannabis may actually use more calcium than potassium in fact..

in hydro'

a good rule of thumb is

3:2:1 K:Ca:Mg during veg
4:2:1 during bloom as the K goes up

but eitherway magnesium is always half the calcium

typically if K is high Mg def is the first thing youll see

common issue for those whom add potassium silicate to theyre mix

ShLUbY · Apr 13, 2017

also remember when you're looking at NPK of nutrients, it's % by weight. so even though an alfalfa is 3-1-2, remember that a half cup of alfalfa is no where near the weight of a 1/2 cup of other things. so you may want to consider that when putting mixes together

also, i'd skip the azomite. the other rock dusts are far superior compared to azomite. known for high aluminum content

im4satori · Apr 13, 2017

ya
I think I will skip the azomite

I just realized

I did my math wrong

I cut the partial re-amendment as if it was a 9 week grow cycle
but really its an 18 week grow cycle veg and bloom

so instead of cutting the original amendment mix in half I should have cut it into 1/4

im4satori · Apr 13, 2017

amend as you go/partial re-amendment (to achieve 2 consecutive grows without cooking)
top dress every 4 to 5 weeks
1/2 gallons humus (or maybe 4 cups every 2 weeks)
1oz lime (1/2 oz every 2 weeks)
2 oz amendment mix (1 oz every 2 weeks)

for 2 consecutive grows before full re-amendment

ShLUbY · Apr 13, 2017

im4satori said:
amend as you go/partial re-amendment (to achieve 2 consecutive grows without cooking)
top dress every 4 to 5 weeks
1/2 gallons humus (or maybe 4 cups every 2 weeks)
1oz lime (1/2 oz every 2 weeks)
2 oz amendment mix (1 oz every 2 weeks)

for 2 consecutive grows before full re-amendment

you might even get 4 runs out of it... ya never know! when you amend like that over and over... the plants will get what they need when they want it

PDX Joe · Apr 14, 2017

I've got a question. It sounds like some of you are using the Down to Earth products. I'm using their Bio-Live 5-4-2 product in a SIPs system. I started the grow with the Bio-Live, Bu's Biodynamic compost, EWC and bokashi as a top dress and then lime and azomite mixed into the soil. I'm about 5 weeks into veg and I am starting to see some lightening of the new growth, so I'm thinking it's time to top dress.

I'm wondering as I transition into flower would you switch to the Down to Earth All Purpose 4-6-2 or maybe their Rose & Flower 4-8-4 to get the P up a bit? Or would you just stick with the Bio-Live 5-4-2?

By the way, I feel your pain on the age thing... literally..

Wetdog · Apr 14, 2017

im4satori said:
im approaching the "no spring chicken years myself" lol
when your 45 years of age... 50 looks pretty close lol

greasemonkeymann said:
ouch... fuck that, i'm having issues with 40 being near
yea.. this yr i am turning 35...
again..
my 35th yr has encompassed a good thousand days or so...
fuck it, my 35th yr is gonna be based on fuckin Jupiter yrs
a good 4,000 days or so
yea that's right.

Both of you can go cry me a fucking river. :finger:

I'm closing in real fast on 70 and can tell you, you just THINK you know about hurting all the time. You'll see.

Life after 65 or so goes :hump:

to you.

Wet

ShLUbY · Apr 14, 2017

PDX Joe said:
I've got a question. It sounds like some of you are using the Down to Earth products. I'm using their Bio-Live 5-4-2 product in a SIPs system. I started the grow with the Bio-Live, Bu's Biodynamic compost, EWC and bokashi as a top dress and then lime and azomite mixed into the soil. I'm about 5 weeks into veg and I am starting to see some lightening of the new growth, so I'm thinking it's time to top dress.

I'm wondering as I transition into flower would you switch to the Down to Earth All Purpose 4-6-2 or maybe their Rose & Flower 4-8-4 to get the P up a bit? Or would you just stick with the Bio-Live 5-4-2?

By the way, I feel your pain on the age thing... literally..

definitely topdress with the DTE products. i find they don't seem to last as long as some of the other brands i've tried out. the bio live is fine, but when you transition to flower, you'll want to use the rose and flower for sure.

im4satori · Apr 14, 2017

Wetdog said:
Both of you can go cry me a fucking river.

I'm closing in real fast on 70 and can tell you, you just THINK you know about hurting all the time. You'll see.

Life after 65 or so goes to you.

Wet

are you using a mule to turn your soil?

PDX Joe · Apr 14, 2017

ShLUbY said:
definitely topdress with the DTE products. i find they don't seem to last as long as some of the other brands i've tried out. the bio live is fine, but when you transition to flower, you'll want to use the rose and flower for sure.

What's you preference for something that last a bit longer? I also have used EB Stone for my outdoor garden.

greasemonkeymann · Apr 14, 2017

TheCauf said:
Is it easy to put too much variety in your soil? You mentioned treating it like a buffet, but say you use a decent amount of the down to earth products instead of just four of them will that be too much? I read that blood meal and bone meal isn't as good as alfalfa and fish meals, but I'd really like to have a variety of stuff in the soil if possible.

well, within reason sure, the key is to try and diversify but not overlap or be redundant, mix slow, med, and fast release of all the macros, and you are good.
an example would be this
for nitrogen i have multiple nutrients i use, fish meal, crab meal, alfalfa meal, steer manure, neem meal, shrimp meal.
but they each have different jobs.
the fish meal is a medium release nitrogen and provides all sorts of amino acids and encourages broad bacterial microbe diversity
crab meal is a slow release of nitrogen and phosphorus, provides chitin, is a liming nutrient, and also has calcium.
alfalfa meal is a fast/medium release of a modest NPK, but i use it more as a compost accelerant and a source for triacontranol (surely spelled wrong)
neem meal is sort of a secret weapon, as it's unique makeup adds much more than it's NPK value. Als adds sulfur
shrimp meal i use for the same reasons as crab meal, except it's available much faster
steer manure is probably the best macro "wildcard" as it has a great amount of macros (including sulfur), considering the amount you ca safely use in a mix the modest 1-1-1 goes a LONG way, and it all turns to pure humus as its used.

and it goes on and on, phosphorus, potassium, calcium, mag, etc
minerals don't typically need to be mixed much, with kelp and basalt the micros and minerals are taken care of pretty well.

My "secret" weapons are neem meal, and fresh comfrey. Those two i would not grow without, but that can be said for much of my inputs

Now, i feel it's probably worth mentioning that plants can grow with out alllll that, you can (I've done it personally" grow with verrrrrry minimal inputs
alpaca manure, kelp meal and langbeinite grew me some GREAT plants outside, it was my go to at my old house (knew a alpaca farmer)
rabbit manure I've also used.

but this method and technique i use now is the best I've tried
all predicated on fresh leaf/grass clipping compost though.

greasemonkeymann · Apr 14, 2017

ShLUbY said:
also remember when you're looking at NPK of nutrients, it's % by weight. so even though an alfalfa is 3-1-2, remember that a half cup of alfalfa is no where near the weight of a 1/2 cup of other things. so you may want to consider that when putting mixes together

also, i'd skip the azomite. the other rock dusts are far superior compared to azomite. known for high aluminum content

RIGHT!
that was what i was trying to get at
for hydro it's totally different, all that shit is chelated and READY
the organic NPK is totally different, much isn't soluble, and much isn't available to the plant, also it never says what % goes where and how fast, it's just a flat %
hence my love for sloooow release nutrients
you typically aren't going to have many problems with too much nutrients in the soil, especially when you have the best CEC on the planet damn near with all the composted humus
people forget that humus is a maaaassive buffer for the nutrients, and PH
composted organic material does that totally on its own

TheCauf · Apr 14, 2017

greasemonkeymann said:
well, within reason sure, the key is to try and diversify but not overlap or be redundant, mix slow, med, and fast release of all the macros, and you are good.
an example would be this
for nitrogen i have multiple nutrients i use, fish meal, crab meal, alfalfa meal, steer manure, neem meal, shrimp meal.
but they each have different jobs.
the fish meal is a medium release nitrogen and provides all sorts of amino acids and encourages broad bacterial microbe diversity
crab meal is a slow release of nitrogen and phosphorus, provides chitin, is a liming nutrient, and also has calcium.
alfalfa meal is a fast/medium release of a modest NPK, but i use it more as a compost accelerant and a source for triacontranol (surely spelled wrong)
neem meal is sort of a secret weapon, as it's unique makeup adds much more than it's NPK value. Als adds sulfur
shrimp meal i use for the same reasons as crab meal, except it's available much faster
steer manure is probably the best macro "wildcard" as it has a great amount of macros (including sulfur), considering the amount you ca safely use in a mix the modest 1-1-1 goes a LONG way, and it all turns to pure humus as its used.

and it goes on and on, phosphorus, potassium, calcium, mag, etc
minerals don't typically need to be mixed much, with kelp and basalt the micros and minerals are taken care of pretty well.

My "secret" weapons are neem meal, and fresh comfrey. Those two i would not grow without, but that can be said for much of my inputs

Now, i feel it's probably worth mentioning that plants can grow with out alllll that, you can (I've done it personally" grow with verrrrrry minimal inputs
alpaca manure, kelp meal and langbeinite grew me some GREAT plants outside, it was my go to at my old house (knew a alpaca farmer)
rabbit manure I've also used.

but this method and technique i use now is the best I've tried
all predicated on fresh leaf/grass clipping compost though.

Would using feather meal in conjunction with your mix be pointless? since the crab meal is a slow release of N

greasemonkeymann · Apr 14, 2017

Wetdog said:
Both of you can go cry me a fucking river.

I'm closing in real fast on 70 and can tell you, you just THINK you know about hurting all the time. You'll see.

Life after 65 or so goes to you.

Wet

70?!
i feel a lil bad that i "liked" your post about being old...
but it does explain why I've always liked ya man, i get along better with old-timers
these damn whipper-snappers nowadays, they just don't know..
hahaha

greasemonkeymann · Apr 14, 2017

TheCauf said:
Would using feather meal in conjunction with your mix be pointless? since the crab meal is a slow release of N

no absolutely not!
in fact it would fit my mix perfectly,... well...in a perfect world, sadly i don't use it for the arsenic content, and also i use a good amount of doghair and all my beard clippings in my compost as the slow release of nitrogen.
but that's why i use the doghair and such
that list was just an example of some of them
doghair, feather meal and hoof horn meal are all essentially the same thing
just keratin
good shit though, especially in no-tills and composts
just not really for a bare soil mix, as it seems to need the active composting to break it down, in a soil mix it's probably not useable for a good 6 months or a yrs even.
but in a good compost it's much faster.

im4satori · Apr 14, 2017

greasemonkeymann said:
70?!
i feel a lil bad that i "liked" your post about being old...
but it does explain why I've always liked ya man, i get along better with old-timers
these damn whipper-snappers nowadays, they just don't know..
hahaha

to him,
we are wipper snappers lol

im happy to have someone with the knowledge from a life times experience in a forum such as this

ShLUbY · Apr 14, 2017

PDX Joe said:
What's you preference for something that last a bit longer? I also have used EB Stone for my outdoor garden.

i just find the denser the product is, the longer it lasts in the soil because it takes time to break it down. some stuff you can't avoid like kelp meal, and alfalfa meal. but stuff like granular gypsum (not micronized or powdered), chunky crab shell meal (neptunes is my favorite), ahimsa neem cake is definitely superior to DTE's product. greensand is a great source of potassium cause it breaks down very slowly (0-0-7 and it's a heavy product so even though its slow release, there's a lot of K in that 7% of its weight!).

greasemonkeymann · Apr 14, 2017

im4satori said:
in hydro'

a good rule of thumb is

3:2:1 K:Ca:Mg during veg
4:2:1 during bloom as the K goes up

but eitherway magnesium is always half the calcium

typically if K is high Mg def is the first thing youll see

common issue for those whom add potassium silicate to theyre mix

Yea, many , many growers don't understand the relation between phosphorus, calcium and magnesium.
people buying "bloom buster" or "bud hardener" or whatever-the-fuck, and then they wonder why their leaves drop off like flies after..

I usually go with around a 3/1 or a 4/1 ratio of the cal to the magnesium for organics, but it's hard to tell how much they are really getting, since i topdress with comfrey a lot and my water is well water, so they have a good amount of calcium and magnesium being utilized.
But calcium for cannabis is damn near a macro nutrient, it's used a LOT, probably moreso than phosphorus.

i can tell you one thing though... don't use black strap molasses as a source of nutrients...
the ratio of cal to mag is inversely opposite to what you want, like 1/4 or so

im4satori · Apr 14, 2017

ShLUbY said:
i just find the denser the product is, the longer it lasts in the soil because it takes time to break it down. some stuff you can't avoid like kelp meal, and alfalfa meal. but stuff like granular gypsum (not micronized or powdered), chunky crab shell meal (neptunes is my favorite), ahimsa neem cake is definitely superior to DTE's product. greensand is a great source of potassium cause it breaks down very slowly (0-0-7 and it's a heavy product so even though its slow release, there's a lot of K in that 7% of its weight!).

ok..theres my K and the sand will help with drainage

how much green sand would I use to re-amend 1 cubic ft?
and what if anything would I reduce if adding green sand?

amending as you go?

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