An established member told me my grow was very interesting and to post it...

OregonMeds

Well-Known Member
I think your experienced friend told you to expose your grow so that we could be the ones to tell you how jacked up the ideas you are running on are versus him having to tell you. Fan leaves power the plant just like any other leaves and there are much better ways to make a plant branch out like topping or supercropping etc. Stop cutting them off and stop bothering with them entirely. Foil is only 75% reflective at best. It won't hurt a thing, it just simply sucks.

Lastly the sand needs to stay there really or your gnat problem will just come back.
 

Fennimore

Well-Known Member
I think your experienced friend told you to expose your grow so that we could be the ones to tell you how jacked up the ideas you are running on are versus him having to tell you. Fan leaves power the plant just like any other leaves and there are much better ways to make a plant branch out like topping or supercropping etc. Stop cutting them off and stop bothering with them entirely. Foil is only 75% reflective at best. It won't hurt a thing, it just simply sucks.

Lastly the sand needs to stay there really or your gnat problem will just come back.

You might have been misinformed. I was just posting because it was an experiment and an interesting grow. As you can see, the plant is doing super nice, no matter what I have done to it.
 

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TeaTreeOil

Well-Known Member
Foil is only 75% reflective at best. It won't hurt a thing, it just simply sucks.
Aluminum foil is closer to 90% reflective when talking about PAR, for around 90% of all incident angles.

I don't know where you got 75% from. Source?

Aluminum is an excellent reflector. Keywords: aluminum, excellent, reflectivity.
 

tom__420

Well-Known Member
Mylar or panda poly is better man plain and simple. Why are you always fighting for aluminum foil?
 

TeaTreeOil

Well-Known Member
Mylar is aluminum vacuum deposited onto plastic(PET). Foylon is aluminum foil which has been laminated over with plastic. Panda/poly films are highly diffuse reflectors. Mylar happens to be more specular than aluminum foil, Foylon is less specular than foil.

Aluminum foil is nearly identical in terms of reflectance(sum of all light reflected for all angles) to these other materials. They are not better, neither plainly or simply.
 

tom__420

Well-Known Member
Alright well if they are the same than why don't grow shops sell it to put on your walls? I think aluminum foil should be left in the kitchen. The only reason aluminum soil should be around weed is if you are making edibles. Please show me a good grow in which the walls are lined with aluminum foil
 

TeaTreeOil

Well-Known Member
Because those other products are much more expensive. I could line my entire home's walls with reg. Al foil for less than the price of Mylar/Poly in one room.

Plenty of successful growers use regular aluminum foil. Look harder. I'm sure if there was less stigma around doing it you might have more people willing to show their foil-lined grow rooms.

Personally I cover cardboard or wood panels with foil, not the walls. I then mount the light panels in ways which are most optimal to utilizing the small amount of light I use. I can see the foil lighting up the plant more optimally when adjusting the panels. It's very obvious when the plants are growing as well.

"How so?" You ask. Simple, they grow out bushier/denser, then don't stretch for the light sources(CFLs, in my case), as they just grow 'normally'(straight-up vertically, without moving lights around to accomplish this).

The thing about a highly specular reflector, reflective Mylar is one of the best surfaces you can get for this & foil isn't nearly as specular, is the amount of throw it has. A mirror is still a mirror and works as one whether 1 foot, 10 feet, or 100 feet away ... mirrors just reflect light :idea: that's their sole purpose! Which is why most professionals use highly polished aluminum reflectors, they are basically mirror surfaces. A highly diffuse reflector can't throw light anywhere near as far, or anywhere near as intensely as a mirror-like(specular) reflector. White paint is less specular than aluminum foil by more of a difference than there is between foil and reflective mylar. Which is somewhat obvious because aluminum foil is still mirror-like(albeit a bad mirror), and matte paint isn't much at all.

Aluminum foil is still highly diffuse, often around 50%(reflective Mylar can be as little as 25%). So the chances of getting hot spots with foil are less than reflective Mylar using both similarly.

Lets see if we're on the same page now....

Here's a challenge for you. Take some highly reflective material(reflective Mylar, aluminum foil, white paint? :lol: you'll likely burn the paint), a magnifying glass, and some paper outside on a really sunny day, and bounce the focused magnifiying glass beam off the reflective material and see if you can ignite paper using only reflected light. If not, use your hand and see how hot it gets, compare between the surfaces.

I'm going to take an educated guess: Mylar or a mirror will allow you to burn something the easiet, and foil will probably work, but not as well as either of the mirror-surfaces.

So, lets see if we take this 'common sense' and apply it to what 'is said'.
Mirrors bad, but Mylar good. There's one contradiction. Some state it's the glass... bulbs are made of glass. Hoods often have a glass door/barrier. Most glass is well over 90% transmissive for a lot of angles.
Foil bad reflector, but also causes hot spots. There's two contradictions.
Foil has [insert obscenely low figure here]% reflectivity. What type of reflectivity, should be your first question. Yes, it's fairly well known reflective Mylar or foil is 95-97% reflective. What type, though? IR, specfically FIR. Oh, that's worthless for plants, but that figure is often used. For plants, Mylar is no more than 92% effective at reflection of the PAR spectrum(it averages around 90%). It's the exact same for an aluminum mirror.



The red-dotted line is reflective Mylar, the blue-dotted line is ESR(enhanced specular reflector, a material from 3M designed to be highly reflector for visible light).

Al is an aluminum mirror, as you can see it conforms with reflective Mylar pretty much identically, and would continue to do so if the Mylar/ESR graph continued. The others are gold(Au) and silver(Ag) mirrors.

I've done measurements with a CFL bulb and an aluminum cardboard reflector, using a camera. The brightness between a bulb and the reflected light of the bulb off aluminum foil is within 3%. Meaning the foil is around 97% reflective.


http://p25ext.lanl.gov/~hubert/phenix/aerogel/talk_1/ said:
The materials used in the system need to be matched to the chosen PMT response spectrum. Just about all papers and plastics cut off around 270 nm, but Aluminum has a flat response all the way across. [5]

One should consider using aluminum foil or aluminized mylar for a reflector, and let the aerogel do the randomizing, since it has reflective properties superior to the best Tyvek (labeled 'total'). Either that or obtain Spectralon.
This guy agrees with my experiment. Sweet. :bigjoint:

That's a good term for it. Aluminized mylar, because without aluminum it'd just be transparent plastic.

So I'm going to go around claiming aluminum foil is 97% reflective now.

:peace:
 

tom__420

Well-Known Member
I do not want to see charts I want to see proof that the plants grow better with it. If you say that I can find them than why don't you find them and prove me wrong. Don't get me wrong I love learning new things but until I see it being used successfully in a grow op I can't believe it. Ironically I cannot find any pics of your plants or anything? That is reallll convenient man.... Charts are all fun and all but some line graph is meaningless if I cannot see it in action in a grow
 

TeaTreeOil

Well-Known Member
Pretty much identical to grow ops using aluminized Mylar or any other aluminum surface. The charts prove this, but you can always try it for yourself.

Where's the irony?
 

Chase1126

New Member
I do not want to see charts I want to see proof that the plants grow better with it. If you say that I can find them than why don't you find them and prove me wrong. Don't get me wrong I love learning new things but until I see it being used successfully in a grow op I can't believe it. Ironically I cannot find any pics of your plants or anything? That is reallll convenient man.... Charts are all fun and all but some line graph is meaningless if I cannot see it in action in a grow
A great grow depends on a lot more than your reflective surface. Many idiots just run out and buy a big HPS and a bunch of mylar because some stoner said its the best. Showing a graph and backing up information with quotes is much better than asking for more and more unrealistic proof. If he posted pictures of his CFL grow it would be no where near as large as the little kid who bought a big HPS and a bunch of mylar, and you would just insult it, taking it as proving your theory. Where in reality he saved $$$ and still gets to grow some quality weed.


I back up the statement that there are pictures of decent grows using foil around. You just have to look. They come by when you chill in the forums for a while.
 

tom__420

Well-Known Member
I have been here since the beginning of 2007 and I have yet to see a decent foil grow. You two are saying that they are out there but I looked and I couldn't find anything. Can you link me to something? Thanks.... hahaha
 

Goodlovin

Active Member
looks good. Interesting concept clipping the fan leaves.. I've wanted to do that for my own but been too afraid.. they seem to just get in the way more than anything.
 

Chase1126

New Member
I use foil. I also use Styrofoam. And MG! And I have no reflector on my lights. Nor do I block out all the light in my grow room.
Here are my plants early flowering a week ago. 2 weeks veg.
I get my Foil at the dollar store.

I wonder if mylar or a solid wall of 1000watt HPS would be more effective.
 

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Genosyde

Well-Known Member
wow this is my first time posting on here, first off: the grow is going great dude, keep it up. second, why is everyone taking up this mans thread about something that has nothing to pertain to the mans grow besides everyones personal opinion? and third, does it really matter what you use as long as your growing and your plants are happy and healthy. its not what you have or use (mylar,AF,Paint etc.) but using whatever is you can get your hands on that you think will help get your plant bigger and stronger thus granting you with a bigger yeild. just as long as we keep smoking, who cares? peace love and happy growing :)
 

tom__420

Well-Known Member
Just think what it could have been if you used something that is made to line your walls and not something you cook french fries on. Plant looks good, but I can guarantee it would have looked better without the aluminum foil. Your next grow try out something else and see if your results are better, I can already tell you the conclusion you will reach. I wouldn't listen to that tea tree guy, he also thinks that CFL's are better than a 400 watt HPS using his charts and graphs and shit.
 
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