since when?..guess you never stick around for the credits when they roll the "disclaimer" that the following is NOT true?
And so God made a liberal
- Thread starter Uncle Ben
- Start date
lilroach
Well-Known Member
Yes, the list of positives of Obamacare is very short. I'm not sure where you got the $2 a month for healthcare, and I'm sure that is a rare case as the rates I've seen are much more than that.
Forcing people that can barely keep a roof over their heads to either buy healthcare insurance they can not afford or a fine they cannot afford is not the answer. This is not the answer to insuring those that were not insured before. Even if they opt for the cheapest insurance available to them, the inexpensive plans have BIG deductibles so they end up having to pay for the same things (up to a point) that they did when they had no health insurance.
Obamacare was a poorly conceived, poorly written bill penned by the insurance lobby and has little do to to better the lives of un-insured Americans, but rather filling the bank accounts of the healthcare insurance companies. Sadly it has been a political bargaining chip for our politicians to give exemptions in favor of campaign contributions.
Our government had a chance to really address the issues of how we pay for our healthcare, and it's my opinion they failed miserably.
Forcing people that can barely keep a roof over their heads to either buy healthcare insurance they can not afford or a fine they cannot afford is not the answer. This is not the answer to insuring those that were not insured before. Even if they opt for the cheapest insurance available to them, the inexpensive plans have BIG deductibles so they end up having to pay for the same things (up to a point) that they did when they had no health insurance.
Obamacare was a poorly conceived, poorly written bill penned by the insurance lobby and has little do to to better the lives of un-insured Americans, but rather filling the bank accounts of the healthcare insurance companies. Sadly it has been a political bargaining chip for our politicians to give exemptions in favor of campaign contributions.
Our government had a chance to really address the issues of how we pay for our healthcare, and it's my opinion they failed miserably.
Pinworm
Well-Known Member
since when?..guess you never stick around for the credits when they roll the "disclaimer" that the following is NOT true?
............................................
Doer
Well-Known Member
So fact filled.
Define: not actually;
didn't really cover;
anything
What is gone is the ability not to pay something for everyone else. If you can, you will pay. Also, you can be denied.
You think access denials across the board will decrease? HA HA.
You see, I believe SCOTUS about the ACA.....not actually health care insurance since they didn't really cover anything. It is a TAX. Wooopps.
We had healthcare before. We are all still self insured, ultimately. Everything is not covered. Less is covered of the lifesaving stuff, so more can be covered free diapers, BC pills, gym memberships, etc.
The Doctors are being pushed out for tech. The IRS is not a healthy thing to be in healthcare. And we pay TAX no matter if we are healthy, not female, tansgendered, incarcerated, Catholic or not. A fewer will now pay much more. How can that work?
For less, is how it works. Pay more, get less. A bigger gray area has been established and a way is paved for the rich to pay for private medical. Exempt Cadillac plans still exist.
Freedoms are eroded and new taxes are in place. We robbed Peter to pay Paul and put everyone on Medicare.
And the essential freedom to be freely self insured is no longer even possible...I might get pregnant. I might have a son that needs a sex change. I might live to 1000 years old. Can't have those pre-conditions stop me.
I'll get the same level of heath care that Dick Chenny can get. It will depend on if I am a Republican of some note, in the way, politically, and did I shoot anyone? Was that an accident, etc?
And of course, I have to know almost day to day how to mark the form correctly. Do I support Oceana, or Eurasia today? And what about Easasia? What am I to do with any memory holes in the NewSpeak, I am forced to babble.
Asking for healthcare is now risky. What about my parking tickets? What about my neighbors' reports and my Life Watch records? Will they Redact me this time? It is only tooth ache. But, those are not allowed over 80 years old.
But, I not allowed not to go. CentralObama already knows about the tooth. The damn house bot, again.
At least, BUCK, is now an expert on the self funded, insurance market...after the fact, via regurgitation.
Pinworm
Well-Known Member
Hmmmm. So now that everyone has an equal shot at being healthy, you're bummed? Please explain. Also, if I remember correctly, this was originally a right-wing idea...
Honest question Pinworm, have you contributed enough in federal income taxes the last couple of years to pay for other peoples "equal shot at being healthy" ?
Pinworm
Well-Known Member
I work two part time jobs. I'm constantly tired as fuck. I pay taxes. Hell, I even contribute to some charities. I think everyone has the right to be healthy. It's the standard in almost EVERy other country in the world. I'm just blown away when people get bummed about finally having access to a doctor. Just my opinion, brother.
lilroach
Well-Known Member
Please do not mistaken me for a republican or someone that will defend the GOP. I am not. I am a true independent....often more liberal leaning than anything else.
Equal shot at being healthy? Really?
More and more doctors are refusing federally funded healthcare because the reimbursements do not cover the expense of the services given. The doctors that are accepting these reimbursements are back-logged in appointments. Even those with good insurance may not be able to get a timely appointment and patients have a choice of paying a ton for immediate-care, or end up going to the Emergency Room to get treatment.
Employers are weighing the ever rising cost of their contributions to their employee healthcare vs. just paying a fine. Often the fine is less than offering coverage.
For the next few years the government is subsidizing premiums to keep them low, but after (I believe) three years these subsidies go away and the once low premiums are no long low premiums and market values prevail. This is why many states have opted out of Medicare federal subsidies now.
Many doctors are also baby-boomers that are in a position to retire at any time. My wife's doctor has opted to do this instead of dealing with complying with Obamacare. It is predicted that while there will be millions with new insurance, 15% of doctors will be retiring. There are not enough teaching colleges and hospitals in place to make up these losses. Getting a doctor's appointment will be more than a challenge, and the ER's will be used instead.
So.....sure, it all looks good on paper until reality comes into play.
Pinworm
Well-Known Member
I feel like you may own a business, and may happen to be inconvenienced with this new law. I understand it can be a fucked up deal. My doctor feels that it's still a good thing, even if it fucks with their cash flow. Personally I'm sort of stoked to see the insurance companies struggling to actually provide a real service to people who ACTUALLY need it for once, instead of the crazy drama (fucking over people with real conditions that would otherwise go un treated)
You seem to have a real understanding of the new law. For me, personally, a broke, piece of shit, libturd, it's a relief. I can finally be treated like a human being. When I'm sick, I don'thave to be rich to know I will receive proper medical care.
I respect your opinion. But, I just can't relate. I've been sick for too long.
That's good you're busy and working.
In my opinion, those like you that see this as a right for everyone to have access to healthcare is a bit selfish.
Like a lot of business owners, I pay a ton of money every year in taxes and I know my money is wasted on many programs that have little if any impact on our poor. With that said, I really wouldn't mind paying a little more if money actually went to those who need healthcare.
What I am vehemently apposed to is, the government taking away my choice and forcing me into a program they dictate is best, why should my rights be stripped just to support those who do not have the money for that choice?
If we continue down this path, what's next, housing, transportation?
Anyone that will deny that the government won't try it in the future is either extremely gullible or flat out dishonest.
Pinworm
Well-Known Member
Well said. But, saying I'm selfish for wanting a service that almost every other country in the world provides is a little...idk - i have not the vocab. Yes it is a law, and yes, like any law, it can be inconvenient. I just look at it thusly. If we are denied the ability to be well, why fucking bother living at all?
fail..this is what it's all about for you isn't it? what it considered enough?
EDIT: this is supposed to be for the good of the citizens of the US whether you are a middle class worker and pay an effective rate of 35% or a fat cat like romney and pay an effective rate of 11% (which actually would have been lower; he "instructed" his accountants "not too low i'm running for president and how would that look")
my 80/20 GOLD plan deductible is $1750
This is really not about getting healthcare my friend, it's about who's going to be paying for it and forcing me into something I don't want.
Like I said, I don't mind paying a little more to help but leave my choice alone.
It's only a fail in your opinion, my dear.
My point of bringing up how much Pinworm or any other ACA proponent for that matter is, it's a simple fact, just about anyone will want things when it's free. And most of them really don't give a rats ass about the people who have to pay for it.
Perhaps it's just me, but instead of showing any kind of appreciation or gratitude for those of us that will have to foot the bill, people like you make demands, criticize and display condemnation, I personally that find appalling and counterproductive.
lilroach
Well-Known Member
My wife.....who's a non-union GM retiree went from a zero deductible to a $2,500 deductible. The unions (which for some unknown reason) are exempt from Obamacare, and when they got the keys to the board-room cut the hell out of the salaried retired employee's healthcare. We have had to pay for all her meds and doctor visits due to the high deductible.
I am indeed self-employed, but since I'm a Vietnam-era veteran I use the VA for my healthcare. If I didn't have that, I'd be one of those broke people choosing between food and paying fines/healthcare insurance.
I am indeed self-employed, but since I'm a Vietnam-era veteran I use the VA for my healthcare. If I didn't have that, I'd be one of those broke people choosing between food and paying fines/healthcare insurance.
Pinworm
Well-Known Member
Actually, I haven't yet applied for my insurance. I will gladly share all of my information when I get a chance to line myself up. I realize this (the new law) is a shock to most people, As, I believe, MOSt people were previously engaged with an insurance plan that worked for them...personally being one of those "moochers" who could really use a checkup, and possibly some warfarin/insulin-shots for my fucked up fat heart and body, I see this as an awesome opportunity to become a more healthy, and active contributing member of society. I agree that any law should be subject to scrutiny, and almost always disobedience (at least on my part!) but I'm going to have to bow out of this discussion, because I'm extremely biased when it comes to this one. I need this. And, pretty bad too.
I'm hoping we can all get to the point where we can start to see this as a positive change for America. I realize it probably will not be looked at as such, but, as a proponent, I'm a little stoked to know my boyfriend can finally have the chance to take care of his diabetes without breaking his pockets, and that my Dad can finally get the medicine he needs to keep his heart disease in check.
ginwilly
Well-Known Member
Doer, that was awesome! Thanks for sharing that, I didn't quote your post because I don't want people to read my post, I want them to go back and read yours. I am like Schuy in that I've come to think of your prose as Doerisms, and this one is one of my favorites.
Uncle Ben
Well-Known Member
You got it! When does this group of people, "the government" ever run anything right? Look at Obama's foreign policies, his corruption, his outrageous number of facist executive orders that are above and beyond Congress. But I digress.....
You take some dumbshit who doesn't have a clue about this stuff, is too lazy to do his homework and sell him a policy. After his choices begin really sinking in what he's been duped into he gets really pissed. I may pay more now, but the details that really matter (and few consider) are important. If my doctor office visit co-pay goes from $15 a visit to $35, or lab work isn't covered after the first visit without some big co-pay, or getting Images (X-Ray, CRT scan, etc.) has a high co-pay, or my hosital family and single deductible doubles....then it's no good.
UB