Any Canadians find a way into the legal market?

mr4tune said:

Someone had told me that when your growing as a DG you can't charge by weight. Apparently you had to agree to a contract for a monthly fee. Whatever you got from that patients plants (regardless of yield) was to all go to them. Basically you get paid for your time and reimbursed for your power, water, nutes etc. No profit. The government probably wanted it this way because they had no way of charging tax on it and they knew it. I guess it helps them sleep at night knowing they are getting taken advantage of lol.

Idk if this is true or has changed, but that's what I was told anyways. Unless you had a few well-off patients with deep pockets to value your "time" accordingly, the appeal to it was being able to have a higher plant count. Made sense back when scripts were thousands of dollars. Nowadays with script costs who cares.

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That seems to make sense, pretty hard to argue with basic compensation for your inputs and time. I would have a licence too, so I guess there would be plants designated to the person I am growing for (ie I get their plant count as well) and then just grow more. Don’t have a room big enough for two scripts tho unfortunately lol

mr4tune said:

The only way to get into it without a huge overhead is going for the micro outdoor. That couple @ Sea dog farms proved you can apply and setup an outdoor space for under $20k or whatever it cost them in fees. Hopefully you own your land already though...

I joined that big Micro license group on FB. Good to see people are banding together to support one another, but idk... I'm having a hard time understanding why people are trying to jump through the hoops with things the way they are. It's like the kid who wants a new car and doesn't care that the interest rate is at 30%. They want it and they are going to get it regardless of what anyone says. There is a pile of guys that have spent the cash and time yet are sitting there with product not moving. Its either that or bow to the LP's and hope they take your gear for a fraction of what it should fetch. The system is flawed and seems to pad every pocket other than yours, yet people are still jumping on board...

I also got a kick outta the guys on there with a tent full of dogshit genetics thinking they are going to setup a cloning facility. They got a company name and logo so the rest is minor details right?

Its not rocket surgery. If you got the land and cash, do a good build that will pass inspection in the future and keep riding under your acmpr until the craft market opens up. I'd rather ride dirty and pay the bills, than jump through hoops to starve.

just my opinion anyways.

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Totally - if you had an acmpr you could grow and crop and then hold on to the gear and then sell it gradually with your ‘legal’ crop once you get licenced by the feds. That would be the way to do it without a huge exposure in the first year.

I’ve seen a a handful of guys/girls getting approved for a micro licence on their own, no LP partnership and no bloodsucking consultants. I have a huge amount of respect for those guys. It seems they usually have a chunk of their canpoy space outside tho, which definitely drives down overall start up costs. I have a ton of respect for people who are doin it themselves.

I think the more experienced guys who get on board with micro and jump through the shitty hoops, there will be a better chance of showing the public that safe and high quality cannabis doesn’t come from a giant warehouse managed by suits.

Everyone knows where good weed comes from and it isn't from an LP. I've tried a few different brands now and a few of 'em looked good. "Looked" being the key word. The only thing that blew my hair back was the price. So why are people paying up to $80 for a 1/4 of that? Availability. It certainly isn't variety. I can scoop up shit from x10 different dogs and at the end of the day I'm still selling dog shit. Whether you don't know "buddy", or your in a new town, you got storefronts. That's their only saving grace at this point. Being able to draw in a customer basis that for whatever reason has previously had no access, or was scared to purchase "black market" lol.

The difference from one province to another is another issue. Few years back I could go into a dispensary in Kelowna and get locally grown. I could SEE the weed before buying it. No over-packaged dried out bullshit. I move to AB and there was zero dispensaries. Now they are all over but everything is government regulated. If you aren't buying it from them, you aren't open. Period. Maybe it's different around deadmonton or cowtown, but not here in the north. IMO the only ones doing okay are all the First Nations bands. $100 an oz? who gives a fuck. They aren't paying any sales tax and people are willing to get it through them over the feds. Good on them. At least someone is making it work.

Now to the outdoor... It used to be garbage. Now you've got legal outdoor ops with light dep greenhouses and supplemental lighting pushing out some decent stuff. That's not helping anything. Massive amounts of weight not moving so that's where the undercutting comes in. Whats the point of being legal if your getting paid scraps to hand it over to the big boys?

Maybe I'm wrong, but the only viable option is to ride dirty for now. Have a decent sized outdoor where your turning the whole crop into some form of concentrate. You can fly under your acmpr, have no inventory data to submit to the government, and your costs are minimal aside from the land. Who cares if someone comes and knocks on your door. Your a patient lol.

The only sign of light I've seen in many moons is BC announcing their plans to open "Farm Gate" here in 2021. But who knows how much tha'ts going to cost. Permits, application fees, zoning, inspections, etc. etc. etc. etc.

As far for the guys that are setup with the micros. For me personally, this isn't the time or place for the old "If ya can't beat em, join em" attitude. It's just inadvertently shafting the rest of the guys waiting for things to open up. Why give them a fighting chance when the finish line keeps getting closer? Sorry but no business model can survive when your posting losses in the 10's and 100's of millions. Its just a matter of time.

I like that argument actually, I definitely get what you mean about micros not being the solution for many or good for fair business, that makes sense.
It gets depressing thinking about the ruining of the cannabis trade in Canada lol

2klude said:

Those prices sound extremely high to me. Any "free market" grower would happily sell there AAA buds for $2.00 per gram this year. Pounds of nice looking AAA are going for 8-900, I've seen bigger packs for even less. Market in BC has been flooded since April. I haven't heard of anything selling for more than $1200 in almost a year. Even @ $1200 that's like $2.60 per gram. $4.00 per gram is like pre 2010 prices.

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You don't know the right ppl

I was just down in Vernon for a few days. Took a rip out to the rez and there's gotta be 10 - 15 dispensaries in a 20 km stretch starting as soon as you turn off the highway and start heading down eastside road towards Fintry. Everyone and their dog has a plywood shack setup and is selling. Kinda makes me wonder how the legalities of that works... I've never seen a sign for a shop selling bootleg cigs or moonshine before, yet heres everyone running in plain sight meanwhile the rest of us are sitting on our hands. Seems legit...

mr4tune said:

I was just down in Vernon for a few days. Took a rip out to the rez and there's gotta be 10 - 15 dispensaries in a 20 km stretch starting as soon as you turn off the highway and start heading down eastside road towards Fintry. Everyone and their dog has a plywood shack setup and is selling. Kinda makes me wonder how the legalities of that works... I've never seen a sign for a shop selling bootleg cigs or moonshine before, yet heres everyone running in plain sight meanwhile the rest of us are sitting on our hands. Seems legit...

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That's because nobody in our sisified government will dare even look their direction these days for fear of being called racist. Seems to be the go to here. Arrest someone for breaking the law, you're a racist. It's a sad state of affairs. Remember when they closed down our highways and railways just before Covid? They would not do a thing about it. When we had court order stating they could be moved the RCMP refused to do it for fear of bad press. I am not surprised to see illegal dispensaries running rampant.

mr4tune said:

I was just down in Vernon for a few days. Took a rip out to the rez and there's gotta be 10 - 15 dispensaries in a 20 km stretch starting as soon as you turn off the highway and start heading down eastside road towards Fintry. Everyone and their dog has a plywood shack setup and is selling. Kinda makes me wonder how the legalities of that works... I've never seen a sign for a shop selling bootleg cigs or moonshine before, yet heres everyone running in plain sight meanwhile the rest of us are sitting on our hands. Seems legit...

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The whole thing everywhere - makes me want to tear the buildings down

2klude said:

Took me 20mins, 2 mins to fill out the form and 18mins check it over like 100 times lol.

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I hear ya on the checking it over 100 times. That's what I did too. Kept thinking, ok, if I have a brainfart moment and do this thing wrong I'll be waiting forever to get my license. I have it now, happy with my current personal 59-plant maximum.
Also share the dreams of being a craft/small-batch commercial grower...

mistergrafik said:

And it’s not because I don’t like dispensaries- the people who put them there. Frauds.

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I think the explosion of home growers is a major positive these days. Legal dispensaries will be much better when they open them up to craft growers. Here in Canada there were ridiculous amounts of illegal dispensaries until we legalized. After that they were all closed as they were cutting into government profits. Now it's mainly on the reservations you find them as police seem afraid to do anything about them. While I am not happy with the illegal shops I can understand why they are there. As soon as they realized nobody will touch them they popped up everywhere. It's the same reason we had them everywhere before legalization. As soon as someone realizes that nobody will stop them they take advantage. I blame our government and law enforcement who all seem more worried about bad tweets than doing what they are paid to do. Thank goodness for home growers. I love that I really dont need dispensaries either legal or illegal any more.

Doug Dawson said:

That's because nobody in our sisified government will dare even look their direction these days for fear of being called racist. Seems to be the go to here. Arrest someone for breaking the law, you're a racist. It's a sad state of affairs. Remember when they closed down our highways and railways just before Covid? They would not do a thing about it. When we had court order stating they could be moved the RCMP refused to do it for fear of bad press. I am not surprised to see illegal dispensaries running rampant.

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It’s not like they’re not doing the same thing as half of Vancouver’s dispensaries. More power to them, at least they have balls.

DrKiz said:

It’s not like they’re not doing the same thing as half of Vancouver’s dispensaries. More power to them, at least they have balls.

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The more illegal operations out there, the more ammunition the anti pot people have so I can't disagree. That goes for all illegal shops. All these places are doing is making it harder for those looking to get into this business legally. I want to see smaller operations with better product being let into the market instead of just medical providers supplying all the product that most find to be shitty. I think that would be better for everyone.

I honestly cant see why anyone would want to get into the rec market right now unless youve got investors that are going to pay for everything. I know someone going through the process right now. The cost to build out a micro indoor is going to be 750-a mill depending on how you do it and if you own the land. Will most likely take 2 years min as well to get through the licensing process. The retail market is so flooded with mid grade garbage, unless you have killer genetics, know how to grow quads and have a connection to a LP or processor good luck. In terms of doing an outdoor micro, again good luck, unless you are connected to an LP or processor that is guaranting to buy your product, there is no chance any established lp will buy your product when they are already sitting on TONS of mids they cant do anything with. The market was created to cater to the big coorperations and create big money for the insiders and early investors. If the market was opened up to anyone really and all the unregulated growers were able to sell on the open market, all the big companies would go bankrupt. Theres a reason theres so many med licences for 200 plus plants out there, the downside to that is there is alot of bud on the market and the prices are continuing to go down.

westcoast420 said:

I honestly cant see why anyone would want to get into the rec market right now unless youve got investors that are going to pay for everything. I know someone going through the process right now. The cost to build out a micro indoor is going to be 750-a mill depending on how you do it and if you own the land. Will most likely take 2 years min as well to get through the licensing process. The retail market is so flooded with mid grade garbage, unless you have killer genetics, know how to grow quads and have a connection to a LP or processor good luck. In terms of doing an outdoor micro, again good luck, unless you are connected to an LP or processor that is guaranting to buy your product, there is no chance any established lp will buy your product when they are already sitting on TONS of mids they cant do anything with. The market was created to cater to the big coorperations and create big money for the insiders and early investors. If the market was opened up to anyone really and all the unregulated growers were able to sell on the open market, all the big companies would go bankrupt. Theres a reason theres so many med licences for 200 plus plants out there, the downside to that is there is alot of bud on the market and the prices are continuing to go down.

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The sad part is we need to help the bottom fall out by growing our own. Once the wholesale price gets so low its not worth growing indoors anymore. Thats when the whole thing crumbles...along with every average persons dream of being a commercial grower.

mr4tune said:

Maybe I'm wrong, but the only viable option is to ride dirty for now. Have a decent sized outdoor where your turning the whole crop into some form of concentrate.

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Some dry ice extract and some dry sift (blonde). For decarbed kief caps - sugar free gummy alternative.
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Even at $2/g I could make money doing that. The problem is they put up so much red tape and control on everything that it will end up costing you your entire margins to do it for that price. We need farm to table sales. If the barrier to entry were lower it would allow micro growers to differentiate their products without relying on the LPs to let them play into their politics.

2klude said:

Those prices sound extremely high to me. Any "free market" grower would happily sell there AAA buds for $2.00 per gram this year. Pounds of nice looking AAA are going for 8-900, I've seen bigger packs for even less. Market in BC has been flooded since April. I haven't heard of anything selling for more than $1200 in almost a year. Even @ $1200 that's like $2.60 per gram. $4.00 per gram is like pre 2010 prices.

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Ya the price has been pretty freakin low in BC lately.