Any updates on MMJ and Guns

st0wandgrow

st0wandgrow

Well-Known Member
Figong said:
I carry one.. unless PTSD kicks in with uber-paranoia about settings I can't control, or don't know anyone there that I can trust with my life. At that point, I'd carry 3 - tis part of the background and at the end of the day, push comes to shove.. would rather be tried by twelve than carried by six.
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I feel ya. I'm slowly coming around on the gun issue. I grew up in Canada, so I have a little different view on this topic. I have fully wrapped my head around the idea of having a gun at home. If someone breaks in to your house, all bets are off and deadly force is justifiable imo. I'm still not sold on carrying guns though. I think (and could be wrong) that 99.9% of the time if someone were to pull a gun on you out in public, they want your belongings. Money, phone, etc. I say give it to them. The $100 in my pocket is not worth me getting shot over, and it ain't worth killing another man over.

Just my 2 cents
 
Figong

Figong

Well-Known Member
st0wandgrow said:
I feel ya. I'm slowly coming around on the gun issue. I grew up in Canada, so I have a little different view on this topic. I have fully wrapped my head around the idea of having a gun at home. If someone breaks in to your house, all bets are off and deadly force is justifiable imo. I'm still not sold on carrying guns though. I think (and could be wrong) that 99.9% of the time if someone were to pull a gun on you out in public, they want your belongings. Money, phone, etc. I say give it to them. The $100 in my pocket is not worth me getting shot over, and it ain't worth killing another man over.

Just my 2 cents
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I understand your views.. mine are a bit different. To me, if someone is willing to bring a knife or a gun, hellbent on killing me if I don't cooperate... they will not like what happens... one is always condition zero, the other is condition 1.. revolver doesn't count in the condition set.. to me, anyway.
 
ProdigalSun

ProdigalSun

Well-Known Member
st0wandgrow said:
I feel ya. I'm slowly coming around on the gun issue. I grew up in Canada, so I have a little different view on this topic. I have fully wrapped my head around the idea of having a gun at home. If someone breaks in to your house, all bets are off and deadly force is justifiable imo. I'm still not sold on carrying guns though. I think (and could be wrong) that 99.9% of the time if someone were to pull a gun on you out in public, they want your belongings. Money, phone, etc. I say give it to them. The $100 in my pocket is not worth me getting shot over, and it ain't worth killing another man over.

Just my 2 cents
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Are you willing to bet your life on that 100$? Thats exactly what you are doing. If you have a gun on you, your chances of coming home increase exponentially.

As penalties continue to rise for robbing people, so is the incentive for killing off any witnesses.
 
GREENGRASS 420

GREENGRASS 420

Active Member
So with "Unclebuck" creating his own side show I got lost after 27 pages.

Is there a clear definition of legality on the following if you are a MMJ cardholder in MI.

Purchasing and registering gun
Applying and receiving a CPL

AND - If you have already purchased a handgun from a FFL, what is the status of this handgun?
 
ProdigalSun

ProdigalSun

Well-Known Member
GREENGRASS 420 said:
So with "Unclebuck" creating his own side show I got lost after 27 pages.

Is there a clear definition of legality on the following if you are a MMJ cardholder in MI.

Purchasing and registering gun
Applying and receiving a CPL

AND - If you have already purchased a handgun from a FFL, what is the status of this handgun?
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RE FFL They say that you cannot lawfully fill one out if you have a MMJ because they claim it would be lying on the fed document. Not so. The tenth amendment (among others) grants rights to the state or people, if that subject was not specifically granted to the federal government. Since MMJ was voted into law by the people of the state, it is in fact legal, the tenth amendment removes MMJ from federal jurisdiction, so you can fill out 4473 without lying, even if you are MMJ.

Possession of MMJ card does not mean that you are a user.

THere has been no gun law passed that prohibits a MMJ holder from obtaining a CPL, purchasing or owning a firearm. As a result, it is legal by default. Thats how the system was designed to function.

As far as uncle buck goes, sorry I wont be amused by his ridiculous tirade in rebuttal of my post because he's still on ignore, but y'all can enjoy his senseless ramblings if you wish.

ETA. The MMJ law does state specifically trhat no person can be denied any right or privelige by any licensing authority and the state because you have a card. That includes the right to own and carry, and it includes the limitation of gun boards from denying you anything at all. I have posted the cites in this thread.
 
GREENGRASS 420

GREENGRASS 420

Active Member
Thanks Prodigal

Was getting a little paranoid due to having applied for a CPL with pretty much the same attitude your response articulated. The sheriff had a little hand written sign at the pay/fingerprint window that stated "No MMMJ Card holders are allowed to hold a CPL and if you have purchased a gun it may have to be forfeited" my thoughts at the time were "Sir I respect your position and service but not your politics and misunderstanding of the law" so I applied anyway.

Key is responsible use. No driving, no guns and no problem mon!


ProdigalSun said:
RE FFL They say that you cannot lawfully fill one out if you have a MMJ because they claim it would be lying on the fed document. Not so. The tenth amendment (among others) grants rights to the state or people, if that subject was not specifically granted to the federal government. Since MMJ was voted into law by the people of the state, it is in fact legal, the tenth amendment removes MMJ from federal jurisdiction, so you can fill out 4473 without lying, even if you are MMJ.

Possession of MMJ card does not mean that you are a user.

THere has been no gun law passed that prohibits a MMJ holder from obtaining a CPL, purchasing or owning a firearm. As a result, it is legal by default. Thats how the system was designed to function.

As far as uncle buck goes, sorry I wont be amused by his ridiculous tirade in rebuttal of my post because he's still on ignore, but y'all can enjoy his senseless ramblings if you wish.

ETA. The MMJ law does state specifically trhat no person can be denied any right or privelige by any licensing authority and the state because you have a card. That includes the right to own and carry, and it includes the limitation of gun boards from denying you anything at all. I have posted the cites in this thread.
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ProdigalSun

ProdigalSun

Well-Known Member
Yep. The CPL does have an implied consent clause, but as long as you're sober, you're fine.

The constitution in part, is there to make sure there are no second class citizens. It establishes voting, equality among races, equality between couples prohibits slavery and so on. Claiming that a person who uses a legal medicine must then give up a basic human fundamental natural pre existing enumerated
right, right is simple foolishness, shortsightedness, and shows an obvious misunderstanding and /or disregard for our nation, our history, our laws, our constitution and of course, our people.
 
ProdigalSun

ProdigalSun

Well-Known Member
Keep in mind that none of this has been proven in court, however the outcome is obvious.

Best policy, keep your card where it wont be seen when opening your wallet, and just keep your business to yourself.
 
GREENGRASS 420

GREENGRASS 420

Active Member
As a side note - at least the MMMJ office had a sense of humor - the date of issuance/expiration was 4-20, hard to keep that one to myself ;)
 
cephalopod

cephalopod

Well-Known Member
P.S., while I respect and share your belief for the 10th, I'm skeptical. If it was that straight forward the med states shouldn't have seen any problems, as marijuana was not expressly prohibited by the constitution. I've seen the deputies in my area be real dicks about it, even publicly calling people out in the ccw classes saying if you have a card just get up and walk out now, don't waste our time, because we'll find out.
 
Michiganja Meduana

Michiganja Meduana

Active Member
The person that you need to protect yourself from with those guns will take more than two years from you.

This is going to make a supreme court case one day.
 
Rrog

Rrog

Well-Known Member
UK cops killed like what, two people last year?

Shooting people is daily news here. The world expects the wild west in the US.
 
Michiganja Meduana

Michiganja Meduana

Active Member
If a gun is necessary, the situation has already escalated to the point of needing one. I've personally seen them diffuse situations before, so experience over emotion I guess.
 
st0wandgrow

st0wandgrow

Well-Known Member
Michiganja Meduana said:
If a gun is necessary, the situation has already escalated to the point of needing one. I've personally seen them diffuse situations before, so experience over emotion I guess.
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When IS a gun really neccesary though? Certainly not in the article I posted above. If no gun had been on hand there might have been a black eye instead of someones father, or brother, or son being burried.

I'm 40, and I've never had a gun pulled on me, and I've never needed a gun. There have been plenty of situations where I'm thankful I (and others) didn't have a gun though. A harmless fist fight could have ended much worse.

Even if someone pulls a gun on you, the stats say that the VAST majority of the time they just want your wallet. Give it to them. The cash in your pocket isn't worth anyone dying over. You have a better chance of winning the lottery than you do finding yourself in a "crazed gunman" scenario out in public. You also stand a far better chance of having your gun used in an accidental shooting than having to use it to genuinely defend your life.

I understand wanting to have a gun at home to protect yourself and your family. If someone breaks in to your house while you're home then I feel that deadly force is justifiable. But walking around in public strapped is less about common sense and more about paranoia.
 
a senile fungus

a senile fungus

Well-Known Member
st0wandgrow said:
When IS a gun really neccesary though? Certainly not in the article I posted above. If no gun had been on hand there might have been a black eye instead of someones father, or brother, or son being burried.

I'm 40, and I've never had a gun pulled on me, and I've never needed a gun. There have been plenty of situations where I'm thankful I (and others) didn't have a gun though. A harmless fist fight could have ended much worse.

Even if someone pulls a gun on you, the stats say that the VAST majority of the time they just want your wallet. Give it to them. The cash in your pocket isn't worth anyone dying over. You have a better chance of winning the lottery than you do finding yourself in a "crazed gunman" scenario out in public. You also stand a far better chance of having your gun used in an accidental shooting than having to use it to genuinely defend your life.

I understand wanting to have a gun at home to protect yourself and your family. If someone breaks in to your house while you're home then I feel that deadly force is justifiable. But walking around in public strapped is less about common sense and more about paranoia.
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The 'new thing' in my area is for a car full of young kids to jump out and start gang beating on people walking alone.

I'll be open carrying from now on when I'm walking.

It's lunacy that it has come to this, but I will not be a victim.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Rollitup mobile app
 
knucklehead bob

knucklehead bob

Well-Known Member
a senile fungus said:
The 'new thing' in my area is for a car full of young kids to jump out and start gang beating on people walking alone.

I'll be open carrying from now on when I'm walking.

It's lunacy that it has come to this, but I will not be a victim.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Rollitup mobile app
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What area ? I'm in N/E Detroit .
 
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