Anyone have experience with Mycorrhiza? +rep for help

I'm having a problem with either nute burns or nute defiency and I think it has to do with the roots that the Mycorrhiza has given me. I'm an advanced newbie, but I think I bit off more than I can chew.

I had to transplant my girls before flower because their roots were getting to big. I transplanted the first 2 on 1-6, the Blueberry 1 & Durban Poison 2. The rest were transplanted on 1-13 (long story). And I transferred them all into 10 gallon containers.

The first Durban Poison 1 is really the Durban Poison 2. I just realized that I mis-named the pic and will have to correct it at some point.

At week 3 they were small because I had mixed the soil too hot and they were getting minor nute burns. By week 4 the nute burns had stopped.

This is when I treated with the Mycorrhiza for the first time. The growth acceleration was unreal, and I really can't complain. But by the 5th week the minor nute burns had returned. I assume this has something to do with the larger roots that are absorbing faster.

I teated with it again during the transplants.

Now that you're up to par on the roots, please check out this thread. I have the rest of the details of the grow here, along with pics of the problem.

I'm starting to think that maybe you've had to of used Mycorrhiza in the past to understand whatever the problem is.

https://www.rollitup.org/marijuana-plant-problems/293730-burn-deficiency-disease-something-else.html#post3672754

Please help, beautiful plants like this would be a shame to waste.

+rep for any and all help.

No one has any experience with Mycorrhiza?

the roots are definitely healthy that leaves environment and nutrients i would say water for a week and than start with the bugs again
the bugs should help eat and regulate excess food to a point

You have a point, but I can't flower till I get rid of the mites, and this is my chance to get them down to just about zero. I gotta do em.

DannyGreenEyes said:

No one has any experience with Mycorrhiza?

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Yep, ya need to try the Search feature. I have a thread and so do others on this topic.

Having said that, you have a case of spin-out, which is a good thing. You're doing this right to have such a nice vigorous root system. This is what you need to do for maximum growth - have your potting soil ready to go for your upcan session. Pop a rootball out and using a razor blade cut vertically thru the rootball, top to bottom about 1/2" deep. Do this equilaterally around the rootball 4 times. Either gently pull apart the bottom or slice thru if it is spinning out there too. BURY the plant up to the first leafsets. If the lower ones are not in real good shape, pinch them off at the "trunk" and then bury it. It will take at least a week for the plant to become established. After that, you can flower it.

For mite control it is pretty hard to beat malathion, a safe organophosphate pesticide, or kelthane. Be sure to use a surfactant in your spray or it will be useless.

Good luck,
UB

Uncle Ben said:

Yep, ya need to try the Search feature. I have a thread and so do others on this topic.

Having said that, you have a case of spin-out, which is a good thing. You're doing this right to have such a nice vigorous root system. This is what you need to do for maximum growth - have your potting soil ready to go for your upcan session. Pop a rootball out and using a razor blade cut vertically thru the rootball, top to bottom about 1/2" deep. Do this equilaterally around the rootball 4 times. Either gently pull apart the bottom or slice thru if it is spinning out there too. BURY the plant up to the first leafsets. If the lower ones are not in real good shape, pinch them off at the "trunk" and then bury it. It will take at least a week for the plant to become established. After that, you can flower it.

For mite control it is pretty hard to beat malathion, a safe organophosphate pesticide, or kelthane. Be sure to use a surfactant in your spray or it will be useless.

Good luck,
UB

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Sorry I've been gone so long, had a long night and discovered another problem, but I think I solved it myself.

I thought a had nute burns, but as it turns out it's a deficiency. My girls already sucked the nutes right out of the FFGF, and I'm paying for my ignorance. I lost soo many leaves it's not funny.

I figured it out because I had fed 3 of the 7 just a little, and those 3 had the least ammount of damage. When you are getting so many different types of damage it's hard to tell if it's a burn or deficiency, especially when you're a newbie.

I read a thread where you talked a little about cutting the root ball, but I don't think I'm ready for that yet. Most of what you said about the root ball in that thread went right over my head. I'm not even 100% sure what the definition of a root ball is. lol I already transplanted though, so it's too late to do anything about it now.

But when I was treating last night the newspaper ripped away from one of the holes and I already saw roots. Freaking unreal how fast the roots are growing. I'm thinking, and this is just a guess, that by the time I flower in about 5 days, the roots will be almost all the way grown. And once they have no more room to grow the plants will have more energy to focus toward cola & bud production.

When I harvest I'll cut the soil down the middle with a hack saw or something and see how full the root zone was/is. With the colonization I saw I think it's gonna be just about full. So on my next grow I'll start the Mycorrhiza from day 1 instead of during the 3rd week. As long as I avoid the problems I've had on this grow that limited growth, I think I'll have some real monsters on my hands.

I started to read one of your threads on Mycorhizza, but never had time to get passed the second page. Someone else spoiled the ending for me though and said the results were less than spectacular and you weren't happy with Mycorrhiza. That thread you were using one that couldn't be used in soil for some reason if I remember right. You should try MYKEs Tree & Shrub Transplanter in FF soil. I really can't beleive the growth I've seen since I treated the first time.

About the mites, I read on this entomolgy site http://entomology.ifas.ufl.edu/creatures/ that petroleum provides an ovicidal effect. Which means it kills the eggs. The way it's worded I don't think it kills all the eggs it comes in contact with, but as long as the site's correct, it should kill at least some and hopefully most of the eggs. That's what I used last night, All Seasons Oil Spray (98% petroleum oil in concentrate) by Bonide.

I didn't think I'd see any adults since I sprayed with Neem Oil last Wed, but I saw 3. The only way that happens is if the Neem didn't kill all the larvae if I identified the correct type of mite (Broad Mite) that I have, and I think I did. I also looked at the plants leaves for the first time, and I think I might be misidentifying the eggs. Because if all those little orbes were eggs, then I don't know where they all came from. I've only seen an adult here & there, and there were tens or hundereds of thousands of them all over the leaves. And most were on top of the leaves which also doesn't make sense.

I saw transluscent orbs and white milky orbs. Broad Mites are supposed to have oval transleuscent eggs, not orbs. I'm really not sure what they heck is going on. Is there anywhere I can get a look at a pic of mite eggs on a MJ leaf the way it appears under a microscope so I can compare it to what I saw last night?

The All Seasons is also a suffocant, so I sprayed both sides of the leaves heavily, plus the stems & branches, soil, planters, & run off trays.

I turned the A/C off in the room once my plants were out and turned on all 3 lights. It got up to 120 degrees in there for an hour so hopefully I cooked any mites or eggs that were in there. (Broad Mites are supposed to be sensative to heat). I'm about to go in there to clean & spray (just in case), get the temp back to normal, and get my girls back. They've been in the "dark" for too long as it is.

I'm about at the end of my rope with these mites though, I have to concentrate on nutes right now. So I'm going to spray with a combo of Neem & All Seasons in 3 days and if that don't finish them off, I'm just going to bomb, then buy and release some predatory bugs. Just not sure which ones to use. Is 2 months long enough to use predatory mites, or should I go with mite destroyers or pirate bugs if it comes to that?

I might also try the organophosphate pesticide, or kelthane instead of the bomb if you think it would be better.

I appreciate the advice, you're considered somewhat of a guru in these parts and any advice you can give me on the eggs, mites, or anything else is much appreciated.

Thanks for the help +rep

P.S. If I'm looking at mite eggs though the microscope, I don't know if I'm looking at empty eggs that already hatched, or eggs that are going to hatch. What happens to mite eggs after they hatch, do they leave empty orbs or do the mites eat them or something?

You have to break the cycle. When the eggs hatch, the larvae start feeding, turn into adults which lay more eggs. Good luck with that Neem.

Leaf loss was probably due from a lack of N.

If you already have a potbound condition then you used to small of a pot.

I don't think 120F will kill anything, but your plants.

The entomology sites say that broad mites take 3 days to hatch & 3 days to mature into adults under the right conditions. That's why I can't figure how I was looking at adults 4 days after I treated with the Neem. Unless Neem isn't 100%. I now have filters over my intake, and my exhaust no longer connects to the outside world.

It also suggests dipping the plants in 110 to 120 degree water for 15 mins to kill the mites and their eggs. It says broad mites are sensative to heat. But with 21" to 28" plants in 10gal containers, I figure I'd need a 30 or 40 gallon drum to dip them into. And for the life of me I can't figure out how I'd keep the water in that temp range for an hr & 45 mins. (7 plants) But I hope it works as well in hi temps in dry air since they don't like the air dry. But I sprayed everything once the room cooled down just in case. And I didn't even think about putting the plants in there with the heat that high.

I just hope most or all of the eggs I saw on the leaves are either old empty eggs that already hatched, or dead eggs, or something else entirely that I'm mistaking for eggs.

That petroleum suffocant by Bonide really softened my leaves by the way, almost like putting moisturizer on them (if they had skin. lol). An added bonus I guess.

But I want to make sure they're dealt with before starting flower. If I know that the predatory mites will colonize quickly enough to take care of them I'll treat with one of those pesticides you mentioned & then release the predatory mites. I'll have to do some research into them. If they're not good, I'm pretty sure that either Mite Destroyers or Pirate Bugs will do the job since the Mites #s are so low. I'll just have to kill off the lady bugs before releasing them.

I just wish I knew more about the eggs and what things are supposed to look like under a microscope. I guess that just comes with experience though.

Thanks for the advice on the nutes. I have a fish emushion fert, I'll mix some in with the Tiger Bloom when I water and see if they like that better. I think they're suffering from more than one deficiency. I think I saw a MG deficiency also, hope I wasn't mistaking if for a Cal defiency. They look very similar to me. Also a lot of yellow, and something I've never heard about of seen in pics. The dried leaves turned an orange/ rust color. Have no idea what that's about.

The pot size is what's amazing me. I just transferred from 5gal to 10gal. 2 were transferred 12 days ago and the other 5 were transferred 5 days ago. I never made a note of which one had the roots at the drain holes already, but either way it's feaking amazing that they grew into the new 10gal pots so fast. I'll try to do a side by side grow for you after I get this harvest in and have some money to play with. I don't know if it's the Mycor in the MYKEs, or a combo of the ones in the FF & the MYKEs. I didn't research the different types of Mycor at all further than asking the horticulturist at my local nursery about it and asking her to recommend one. But whether it's a result of the combo of the different ones or just the MYKEs, I don't think I'll ever grow without it. I just got lucky getting the right combo, but I'll take luck when it comes along. lol

But I can barely fit seven 10gal pots in my walk in closet as it is, so I'm stuck at this size for now. Once I get in this harvest I'll be doing some upgrades and I'll try to move the flower room into the bedroom and maybe I can try bigger pots then. For this grow I'm hoping that once the roots max out the plants will transfer their energy to growth & tricombe/resin production with out any bad side effects from being pot bound. I guess I'll just have to see what happens.

Right now though I need to get some sleep, I've been up since Saturday so sorry if I'm rambling or leaving things out. My brain needs to re-boot. lol

Thanks again for all your help. Any and all help from a trusted sourch like yourself is always appreciated.

With roots like that you must have trees. You'll need a chainsaw to take 'em down.

seasmoke said:

With roots like that you must have trees. You'll need a chainsaw to take 'em down.

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Measured them last night, they're between 21" & 28". They were bushy, but I lost a lot of leaves last night. It's been spending a lot of energy on the roots, but once they stop growing, once they run out of room to grow, I'm hoping that they'll transfer some of that energy they've been spending on the roots to everything else above ground.

I'm still learning how to treat plants with bigger and more effective roots. Thought I had nute burns, but turns out the roots already sucked all the nutes out of the soil I just added not long ago.

I finally got my car fixed, so now they're back on bottled water, and I'm feeding them now. That fish emulsion fert is naaaaaaaaaaaaaasty. lol

Thanks for the compliment. You should try it. I didn't even treat the roots till week 3. And I had loads of problems that limited growth. If I started on day 1 and avoided the problems I'd have some real monsters.

FFOF soil and add MYKEs Tree & Shrub transplanter. FFOF has some of the Mycorrhiza and the MYKEs adds more. Together they are something else. But be sure to feed them when they ask for food. lol

Next grow I'm going to treat from day 1. The next grow after that, when I harvest this first batch, I'll try to do a thread on a side by side comparison. Then after that if the difference is as drastic as I think, I'll try to do a thread on using the Mycorrhiza to get bigger plants.

Sorry so long replieing Danny, ya i'd like to try it if its helps roots grow. My pots have plenty of room for more roots.

seasmoke said:

Sorry so long replieing Danny, ya i'd like to try it if its helps roots grow. My pots have plenty of room for more roots.

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You can treat the roots even if your not transplanting by digging 4 holes in each pot, (E, S, W, N) at the edge of the folliage which should also be the edge of your roots. Be carefull not to tear up any of your roots of course. Pour about a table spoon into each hole and cover the hole. When you water, you're roots will get treated.

To make sure the roots get to the edge of your pot, always try to water from the edge of the folliage to the edge of the pot and never under the folliage. Once the folliage reaches the edge of the pot it's best to try to water evenly across the surface of the soil.

Be sure to pick up a few different sources of Nitrogen if you're still in veg. These girls can eat up a storm. Blood meal, fish emulsion or bat guano, and an organic fertilizer with a decent N rating would be my suggestions, it's what I'm using. And don't neglect the other nutes, both major & minor.

Best of luck with your girls.