Apache AT600 led vs 1000w HPS Blue Dream Grow

Red1966 said:

"slow day at Walmart?" If you knew where I actually work, you'd be asking if you could visit. >8,000 people showed up at our last open house. People come from all over the world to study here.

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Red1966 said:

I would have thought you would exhibit better manners here than you do in the politics section. I appear to have given you too much credit.

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Greengenes707 said:

Ya, I am getting them tested still...operative word is getting. I have done my end...other party needs to do theirs now.
I am only smoking the led buds. The hps seems empty of flavor in comparison. Definitely is a difference now that they have cured a little.

That would be cool to see. I think it is time that led's tackle the vert space.

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Greengenes707 said:

Well red... you should have just asked about the lab results... instead of 24 post(I counted them) asking nothing of the sort. Just picking on what you think is wrong...."think" being the operative word there.
I don't mean to be rude but you really do come off as a troll just looking for a hole to poke through.

EDIT:
Chron asked me about the results just after you started in. And I answered it...read quote below VVVVVVV

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Red1966 said:

I sent you a PM asking that you never replied to before I posted. "Chron asked me about the results just after you started in" So why repeat the question? If you get defensive and resentful from honest discourse just because I'm on the fence about LEDs, that doesn't make me a troll. You forget that many don't share your enthusiasm for LEDs. I'm just trying to find the best way to light my garden. I ask an honest question and get insulted for asking. If my questions make you uncomfortable, well I don't know what to say. Maybe I should ask someone else who doesn't take doubts as a personal slight

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Red1966 said:

There's only one LED designed to be used omnidirectionally that I know of, and its not that good of one, and way overpriced. A vertical circle works well with HID because you eliminate the reflector. "Vertical" with LED usually means a wall of plants in a straight line or arc, but not a circle. If you calculate on a basis of cost per unimole of light, including the cost of the light itself over a 5 year period, HPS is much, much cheaper. There's a link at Growers House that links to some university study that breaks it down by different ways to use the lights. When 90% of the light is captured, as in a vertical grow with HPS, the HPS is a third of the cost of the best LED. It seems that the amount of useful light reflected from reflectors is greatly exaggerated

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Red1966 said:

His lights only cover an area slightly larger than the light itself. That gets very expensive.

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Red1966 said:

Yes. I had a rather long conversation with the owner about him using flat plate instead of finned heat sinks. But look at his web site. the coverage area is pretty small for his lights.

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Red1966 said:

I tried to get pricing on Lighting Science Groups lights, they referred me to two "local" distributors and 1000bulbs. None of the distributors carry the lights. WTF??? I emailed LSG telling them they should consider me a wholesaler because I would have bought 4 dozen MORE lights than their current distributors. The main factor holding LEDs back is their high costs. Those COBs aren't very efficient. A one watt diode puts out more than twice the light per watt as any COB. 1W diode=236 lumen/watt.......50W Cree COB=86lumen/watt They're just a lot easier for a do-it-yourselfer to build. The LED will grow enough to pay for itself in one grow, true, but that assumes no costs for anything else, like dirt,equipment and nutes. The HPS will make a hefty profit. A "good" LED to cover 4x4 will set you back well over $1000

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Red1966 said:

Hydro Grow makes a 5 sided "vertical" for about $2750. I think Hydro Grow is made in China. Its not very long. You would need two. That over $5000 for a China made light

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Red1966 said:

I got my numbers from DigiKey, supposedly sourced from Cree itself. These were for 2700K warm white CXA2050 (I think, feel free to correct me). The higher K numbers (5000K, 6500K,etc) were better, but I think 2700K is a better spectrum.

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Red1966 said:

Right now, there is almost nothing in the way of details on their site. Someone said Yoda from star wars works there. Those Onyx look like the low end lights you can order from China.

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Red1966 said:

Still not close to 236lm/W

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Red1966 said:

Troll? Look at the site yourself. There's very little detail at all. And Cidly was selling an identical light to the Onyx as their CHEAPEST light before I ever heard of Onyx. Are you that thin-skinned?

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Red1966 said:

Digi-Key sells to the public and they're listed on their site. You seem to have a problem with me and/or the truth.

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Red1966 said:

RUI seems to behaving problems or my internet connection has just gone to shit.

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Red1966 said:

Try googling "digi-key"

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Red1966 said:

I don't know what is in the inside. All they showed was the case. You specify the spectrum and paint and they put it together. You might be able to specify what brand diodes and stuff, but I don't remember. I don't know if they even still sell them, but the case was identical. Type "google" into the address bar.

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Red1966 said:

No.

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Red1966 said:

There's a real Digi-Key. So who's trolling now?

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Red1966 said:

It appears I was mistaken. I seem to have confused Onyx with Kind brand. My apologies.

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Red1966 said:

Here's some that are 424lm/W A whole page of them.

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Red1966 said:

I sent you a PM asking that you never replied to before I posted. "Chron asked me about the results just after you started in" So why repeat the question? If you get defensive and resentful from honest discourse just because I'm on the fence about LEDs, that doesn't make me a troll. You forget that many don't share your enthusiasm for LEDs. I'm just trying to find the best way to light my garden. I ask an honest question and get insulted for asking. If my questions make you uncomfortable, well I don't know what to say. Maybe I should ask someone else who doesn't take doubts as a personal slight

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Greengenes707 said:

Alright bro...what ever you say...but I have no PM from you ever. I'll take a screen shot if it make you happy.
Read over all your last post and find me one question in there...go ahead, I'll wait...you will not find any because there is none. You came in here with no with except when you saw something you thought you understood better than people you jumped in...turned out you knew nothing correct and kept saying the people who supplied real and correct fact, wrong. Like I said...you come off as a straight up troll.

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Red1966 said:

I asked about the spectrum of A51 (meaning Apache) and got insulted. You were somewhat selective in what you quoted.
So which of these is incorrect? Other than confusing A51 with Apache and Onyx with Kind, which I explained and apologized for. I don't see me calling anyone wrong, just rude, And they were. I'm not seeing the PM in my "conversations" folder either, so I don't have an explanation. But I did send one, maybe it never got to the RUI server. I was having connection problems all day yesterday. I even commented on it. (And you just quoted that comment) Frankly, I shouldn't have to defend myself here. I came here seeking knowledge. You guys take anything that doesn't fit your opinion as an attack. This leads me to think your answers are based more on your enthusiasm than fact. Doesn't make you wrong, but doesn't instill confidence either. If I have to tippy-toe around to avoid hurting anyone's feelings. I think I'll just refrain from commenting. I'm sure Spaz will say "Good Riddance", but nobody likes that asshole anyway. There, you goaded me into saying something rude. Now you can all say you were justified.

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hyroot said:

if you were seeking knowledge then why didn't you ask any questions? Aside from the apologetic posts. Every one of your posts and not just in this thread are derogatory. You seem to argue and insult for the sake of it. No one here has a narrow way of thinking except for yourself. You screwed up and now you are grasping at straws to justify your bullshit. Did you act the same way towards teachers and professors in school? Think before you speak or type.

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Red1966 said:

I wasn't arguing with anybody, I didn't insult anybody. But now that you mention it, I see you doing the same shit everywhere, so just shove it up your ass. Pompous little twit.

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Greengenes707 said:

I'll be growing some cannabis if anyone needs me...

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Chronikool said:

I have a theory that 'Spazredroot' is one person and he likez arguing with himself...

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hyroot said:

if you are referring to Dr. Kynes. That guy is the biggest bullshitter. I was merely fucking with him. He kept it going. I just kept telling him he's wrong and bucky was citing his b.s. Posts not me. He was insulting me and calling me names even though i backed up every claim I made. He just kept grasping at something else to attack me. It was pretty funny.even you gotta admit that. Or if you are referring to your bullshit claims about a51 and apache warranty that you kept perpetuating. I was merely reacting to your level of intelligence and inabilty to properly read.

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