Are you watching?

Gquebed

Gquebed

Well-Known Member
Are you LPs watching down south? $65 for an 1/8th in Colorado? Are you licking your lips? That's outrageous.... the greed.... They better get the price under control or else the black market will flourish and that will give the Feds every reason to say "told ya" and then come down hard on everybody....
 
Kootenaygirl

Kootenaygirl

Active Member
You might be right Gquebed... greed... but it might also have to do with the anti pot culture south of us too. I am hearing that no banks will lend any entrepreneur any money for fear of the feds, who still hold that marihuana and anything akin is illegal. So technically I would say they have themselves a grey market that leaves itself open to corruption by its very nature. Who will win the race to the first white recreational markets? US or Canada? I bet Canada, but it is close. Twenty a gram is a reflection of the risk these people are taking, IMO.
 
Kootenaygirl

Kootenaygirl

Active Member
If the Government of British Columbia said go ahead and the Federal Government said we'll throw you in jail and take all your assets, how do you think that is going to affect the price of an LP's cannabis? Mine would have to double or triple just to get the original risk (investment) out safely in the first year, probably. The Americans just can't look long term with their investments / financing and the risk would be considered very high (illegal) at any business meeting I've been to. Who is the next drug Czar and who doesn't he like? Give Canada credit, at least we got this in the right order, the MMPR is the first white market, just not recreational, yet. Just can't compare North and South fairly, yet, not on price/g.
 
U

user hidden

Well-Known Member
you are quoting prices for "recreational" smokers and add 26% tax on that.
for medical in Colorado it is cheaper and a much lower tax rate.

they are being treated differently in this new model.
 
Gquebed

Gquebed

Well-Known Member
Actually, Kootneygirl, while there has been a reluctance by some federallychartered banks to finance those getting involved in the industry, there hasstill been no shortage of willing financial institutions, which is evident inthe number of operations that have hit the ground running. Those who can't getfinancing have generally been refused not because of the industry they're tryingto get into, but because these people themselves are high risk or just don'thave viable business plans in place. As for the high price, it's evident thatshort supply is the problem there. The price should drop as more productbecomes available. BUT the problem there is that once consumers become accustomedto a particular price point the retailers/producers are very, very reluctant to roll it back, like gasoline, alcohol, food, cigarettes, pharmaceuticals and so on (greed). It will take a LOT of product on the market to force the price downand that production level will come from the black market. At 500 per ounce youcan bet grow shops down there are selling equipment like crazy right now to sharecroppers and speculative hobbiests.


But this was totally predictable... I said in a post a longwhile ago that this is what would happen with the price. Econ 101. The success of this industry inColorado will depend on how long the retailers choose to gouge for. If theydon't roll back in time the Feds will intervene. Thousands of law-enforcementjobs depend on prohibition...and that is very powerful lobby in Washington.
 
Gquebed

Gquebed

Well-Known Member
Kootenaygirl said:
Twenty a gram is a reflection of the risk these people are taking, IMO.
Click to expand...
What? The blackmarket will sell at half the price with double the risk (10 per gram with the certainty,rather than possibility, of prison if caught) so that argument just doesn't wash. It's just simple math.The blackmarket will take over and wipeeverybody out if the retailers don't drop prices now, if the Feds don't step infirst.

 
Kootenaygirl

Kootenaygirl

Active Member
Apples to Oranges still, what investors are the black market growers trying to satisfy, the HA's, the black market only has to satisfy the risk/reward criteria of a single individual. Do you think that the store fronts are not paying a heavy premium for loaned money in Colorado? Ever had to go to a mortgage broker (legal loan shark) instead of the bank?

Production levels, that will drop the retail price, coming from the black market? That is funny, the black market has never been able to affect retail price it has been 10$/g since the 1960's.

Only law enforcement and quality has ever affected the price, there has never been enough marihuana, until very recently, and take note, that it was a grey market (MMAR) that was the driving force and then only lowered wholesale prices still not the retail. It will be the white (production) market that will lower the retail price. Basic economics 101.

Black market-production is an oxymoron, the bigger you are the more likely the law will get you and or that you are paying a corruption fee to stay in business. It is so simple, a free market will bring a fair price through competition, it is the government you should be watching, they are the reason a case of beer is $20 instead of $10.

Now it is medical, but soon it will be recreational and highly taxable, how greedy will they be, I'm guessing that 100% like alcohol is likely then.

Better hope that the white medical market is ready to step up when recreational use finally comes. It will be white market production only, that can over come the new taxes and high production costs, actually lowering the retail recreation price to under 10 bucks a gram, the black market yah right.

The black market couldn't even lower it when it would wholesale for $1000 a pound here. I should state that the local CC is selling for under 10/g, but from my research is the only one, naturally he is located in the heart of marihuana growing. There is the power of the grey market in action.

One day soon we can compare prices, easily doing the math on the exchange rate between American and Canadian money, but only when both Federal governments allow recreational, and the provinces and states allow it too. Then we can look at numbers before taxes, maybe, there is no fair comparisons that mean anything right now.

I am just not seeing your greedy people, but am seeing a bunch of reasons for their high prices, greed is not even on the radar.
 
Gquebed

Gquebed

Well-Known Member
Kootenaygirl said:
Apples to Oranges still
Click to expand...
Huh? Weed is weed no matter where you sell it. And economics is the same everywhere. Even in communistRussia the law of supply and demand ruled.
Kootenaygirl said:
what investors are theblack market growers trying to satisfy, the HA's, the black market only has tosatisfy the risk/reward criteria of a single individual. Do you think that thestore fronts are not paying a heavy premium for loaned money in Colorado? Everhad to go to a mortgage broker (legal loan shark) instead of the bank?
Click to expand...
Not sure what most of this passage is trying to say.But...banks and mortgage brokers aren't the major players in Colorado. It'sventure capitalists, private money. They don't loan money, generally. They buy infor part ownership. That's how they're getting it done down there and that'show people will do it up here too, as always.
Kootenaygirl said:
Production levels, that willdrop the retail price, coming from the black market? That is funny, the blackmarket has never been able to affect retail price it has been 10$/g since the1960's. Only law enforcement and quality has ever affected the price, therehas never been enough marihuana, until very recently, andtake note, that it was a grey market (MMAR) that was thedriving force and then only lowered wholesale prices still not the retail. Itwill be the white (production) market that will lower the retail price. Basiceconomics 101.
Click to expand...

What are you talking about? The price has always beenaffected by the black market. It's fluctuated constantly through the years,depending on quantity/quality available. Weed prices dropped here and in BCwhen California stopped by buying BC bud years ago. Dropped again when Orgeonstarted growing their own like crazy. There was a HUGE price most recently whenWashington no longer needed BC bud. This fall, a pound of BC bud here inAlberta cost half of what it did last winter. When I was in Kelowna, peoplewere dying to get rid of it...out bidding each other in a race to the bottom...1000 a pound? Holy shit. Is that not $2 a gram, which is $8 less than $10? That'ssupply and demand. So i don't know what you're talking about here.
Kootenaygirl said:
The black market couldn't even lower it when it would wholesale for $1000 apound here. I should state that the local CC is selling forunder 10/g, but from my research is the only one, naturally he is located inthe heart of marihuana growing. There is the power of the grey market inaction.
Click to expand...
You obviously don't understand this market at all. Theblackmarket is who dropped the price to $1000 pound because there is too manypeople growing it and not enough buying it in BC anymore. And that has put aTON of people out of business. Now there will be a shortage...prices will goup.

Kootenaygirl said:
One day soon we can compare prices, easily doing the math on the exchange ratebetween American and Canadian money,
Click to expand...
Non Factor. The dollar is almost on par...with in a fewcents.
Kootenaygirl said:
I am just not seeing your greedy people, but am seeing abunch of reasons for their high prices, greed is not even on the radar.
Click to expand...

Man... you are really out of touch. Yours is a lot ofwishful, thinking. I get that. You want to be an LP and are trying to set upfor it. So you look for ways to justify the high prices. But everything you'vesaid in this post shows that you don't understand how the market works even ona local level, never mind a national one, which is what ours will become. There are only a few factors that dictatethe price of any product - availability,quality and what people can afford to pay.
Some people will pay $500 ounce for weed in Colorado justto stay legal. Most will go back to their old dealers, who will up their pricesbut stay well below retail to undercut and grab up market share. With theincrease in black market prices, more black market producers will enter the picture.Then the Feds will have the excuse they are just waiting for.

Same thing happened here in Canada with tobacco a fewtimes now.

 
Kootenaygirl

Kootenaygirl

Active Member
Your the one is giving credit to the black market when it was clearly the grey market that with over production was able to affect the wholesale market.

I know marihuana and you switch wholesale and retail markets when it suits you.

Retail (end user), on average marihuana has cost 10/g for decades, supply and demand only matters when supply actually catches up, it only did this in 2010 in Canada, not under the black but the grey markets and never has production affected price in the U.S.

Your still trying to compare apples to oranges. The black market has never been able to grow enough to satisfy demand or affect price for the end user.

Black market greed has never let anybody mess with the price for the illicit retail market because there is no fair competition, rather price has been affected mainly by quality and next distance and then by law enforcement, supply and demand has only recently been even tested, under the MMAR, and it only went as far as the wholesale market.

Sorry Gquebed but it is the greedy black market that in over 50 years has not changed the price of pot for end users, keeping the wholesale price fluctuations for themselves, un-taxed.

Your greed angle is getting old, next your gonna tell me that I want to profit off the sick and dying. Greed is definitely an issue for the black market, your a bit early for these markets IMO. You obviously have not analyzed the risk like I have, it ain't all rose petals, on my side of the fence, plenty of thorns over here that could bleed LP's dry.

Sounds like you are only concerned with the pricing in the wholesale black market and patients(retail) are still on there own, only a white market can translate production into lower prices for the end user. The black will never let the savings through to the (retail) end user.
 
WHATFG

WHATFG

Well-Known Member
When marihuana goes legal or decriminalized, as long as I can grow it, I won't give a shit what anyone wants to charge for it - I won't be buying!
 
B

BCOGYODA

Well-Known Member
Anything the government gets involved with is a fucking joke for cancer treatment or the like. If you think LP bullshit will be any different your in for a big awakening. Tax the fuck out of medicine that patients should be able to grow for themselves no matter who or what says you can't.
A true patient that needs medical mj should NEVER EVER be forced to buy their medicine if they can grow it for themselves or have someone grow it for them.

As from a business point of view. Free market is what MJ should be about. Not monopolizing, government controlled bullshit. Give your heads a shake people. Fuck the LP's and Fuck the government.

Any real patient with paper work wants medicine and doesn't want to pay bullshit LP prices just PM me and I'll give it to you for FREE!

Recreational users should pay for mj or grow it themselves. If it's for recreational use then it's like anything else; you have to pay to play. But if it's a med then fuck any law that says it needs to be governed.
Peace
 
Kootenaygirl

Kootenaygirl

Active Member
The government should not tax medicine, agreed.

Patients should be allowed to grow their own responsibly, agreed.

Free market is what marihuana needs, agreed.

Marihuana should not be free, it should be sold at a fair price. The financial rewards of the MMAR, creates the "free marihuana", and this corruption has resulted in the collapse that is the reason we are in this change in the first place. Free meds is the problem, not the solution.

You would have us living in the wild west. When my neighbor's crop odors are so strong that my dogs won't go to that side of my yard, and whine constantly. When a friend of mine's house got burned down by his careless grower neighbor, whose shed went up. Then there is my teacher friend who sees a couple of her grade ones, who come to school all stuffed up, noses running, and smelling of green weed, who by the end of the day are clear and happy, draw your own conclusions. Marihuana needs to be regulated because we are only as smart collectively as are dumbest member.

Oh, because it is medicine I am supposed to tolerate this bullshit, like I am supposed to look the other way when I hear "free meds", fucking criminals. At least the LP's will give you a choice, no one is forcing you to buy from an LP. Many patients will though because it is legal, it is tested, it is top quality, pays taxes, is available, and is safe to purchase.

Until the MMPR, the government was forcing you to take the chance that 2 out of three times you were buying from a criminal. FUCK THE CRIMINALS, GOVERNMENT, and HEALTH CANADA, not the LP's, what did they do?
 
B

BCOGYODA

Well-Known Member
Your brainwashed bad. Define criminal. The government is the criminal
And again you are out to lunch if you think LP's will "it is tested, it is top quality, pays taxes, is available, and is safe to purchase."

Maybe you will wake up after you play in the game for awhile.

Why should marijuana not be free under the MSP like other meds are then? Discrimination. You think you should make money off of people that need mj for meds. You are the criminal in my definition.
 
Kootenaygirl

Kootenaygirl

Active Member
"define criminal" Person who breaks criminal law.

I'm out to lunch huh? You don't think LP's can put out a good product for a fair price that is tested, tax all paid, that is available and safe to purchase? Fine agree to disagree, time will tell.

I think marihuana should be subsidized like other meds.
But understand the difference, someone is still paying the power bill, it is not free, growers would need to be paid, etc.

Where do you propose people who need marihuana for meds go, if not to the people who make there living growing it? What now, everybody who wants it, has to grow there own, whether they want to or not?

Doctors and Nurses are criminals by your definition. Lab techs, the entire medical manufacturing industry, secretaries, janitors, garbage men, any body that work for or provides a service to the sick and dying are criminals, what?

Marihuana is a business that just happens to help the sick, people who grow and process it need to make a living to, do you want that hidden in the hands of the HA's or do you want the income out in the open, taxed and audited like HC promises.

You just plain missed lunch, at least I'm just out for lunch.

Clearly you don't think that your a criminal by growing way more than your supposed to and subsidizing the medical with the recreational. Or maybe your just rich and generous and can give it away, either way that makes you a criminal, you can duck and dodge or wear it like a badge of honor doesn't matter to me. Free meds is free meds, sounds harmless enough.

I think patients who don't want to grow their own should not be forced to support corruption(MMAR) and have choices where they buy their marihuana, illegally or in the LP's white market. You want to take the only legal way left to get cannabis away from patients?
 
B

BCOGYODA

Well-Known Member
Kootenaygirl;"define criminal" Person who breaks criminal law.
When criminals write the laws then they are void in the minds of the righteous and virtuous.

I'm out to lunch huh? You don't think LP's can put out a good product for a fair price that is tested, tax all paid, that is available and safe to purchase? Fine agree to disagree, time will tell.
Fair price? There is no "fair price" when you plan to profit from the sale of medicine for the sick. Medicine should be fully subsidised and be for non profit especially since sick people already pay taxes every day of their lives like we all do. There should be NO discrimination whatsoever.

I think marihuana should be subsidized like other meds.
But understand the difference, someone is still paying the power bill, it is not free, growers would need to be paid, etc.
For non profit. ONLY recreational use marijuana should be treated as a business for profit. Maybe you will understand the difference one day if you go through something monumental in your life where compassion and empathy are deserved.

Where do you propose people who need marihuana for meds go, if not to the people who make there living growing it? What now, everybody who wants it, has to grow there own, whether they want to or not?
To their own garden or to another compassionate growers garden. That's right just like what's been going on. But without the abuse. They can regulate things properly with our tax money but they are too fucking stupid and greedy to figure that out.

Doctors and Nurses are criminals by your definition. Lab techs, the entire medical manufacturing industry, secretaries, janitors, garbage men, any body that work for or provides a service to the sick and dying are criminals, what?
Bullshit and stop grasping at straws.

Marihuana is a business that just happens to help the sick, people who grow and process it need to make a living to, do you want that hidden in the hands of the HA's or do you want the income out in the open, taxed and audited like HC promises.
Why do you mention the HA so much? Are you that blind? Do you really think they "run" all the marijuana grows lol. You may be a bit more naive than I though in the first place.
And NO marijuana doesn't just "happen" to help the sick. If that's what you think then you really aren't connected to the herb at all. The government doesn't need any more tax money to blow out their irresponsible ass holes.

You just plain missed lunch, at least I'm just out for lunch.
You need to go out to lunch with someone that can talk some sense into you.

Clearly you don't think that your a criminal by growing way more than your supposed to and subsidizing the medical with the recreational. Or maybe your just rich and generous and can give it away, either way that makes you a criminal, you can duck and dodge or wear it like a badge of honor doesn't matter to me. Free meds is free meds, sounds harmless enough.
How the fuck would you know how much marijuana I grow? You do not so don't make a criminal accusation on an open forum. If you believe your definition of "criminal" then you my lady just broke the law. Rich and generous? You truly are blind. It's called compassion. Have you ever been shown any by anyone in your life time? I have given away more free marijuana to sick people then you will ever grow or buy and sell in your life time. I guarantee that.

I think patients who don't want to grow their own should not be forced to support corruption(MMAR) and have choices where they buy their marihuana, illegally or in the LP's white market. You want to take the only legal way left to get cannabis away from patients?
Hypocrite. Forcing sick people to get meds from only a handful of LP's is exactly that. Choice should be the patients. If you think the government is going to give out shit loads of LP licenses then once again you are out to lunch. Legal way. Ya right. It will be fun to watch the government "try" to take rights away from patients that have already been given to them by both the government and mother nature.
 
Kootenaygirl

Kootenaygirl

Active Member
The red print is very impressive, everything else pure bullshit and wishful thinking, I agree with nothing in your last rant.
It is so bad that even I am going to leave it alone.
Can you tell me why you are shitting on LP's though specifically?
You mad bro?
 
I

iSMOKEGAS

New Member
OG Yoda just crushed you ma..

Yeah he is mad actually, along with the rest of us logical individuals

These new regulations are not the way to do things, and hopefully the injunction will take place
 
Kootenaygirl

Kootenaygirl

Active Member

  • Got bored, sorry guys, just got to stir some more.

    When criminals write the laws then they are void in the minds of the righteous and virtuous.
    So what your above the law?, bullshit.

    Fair price? There is no "fair price" when you plan to profit from the sale of medicine for the sick. Medicine should be fully subsidised and be for non profit especially since sick people already pay taxes every day of their lives like we all do. There should be NO discrimination whatsoever.     Like all those other medications that appear magically for free from those fairyland drug manufacturers who do it nonprofit, wishful thinking. Discrimination is part of marihuana and you better get used to it cause it is going to be with us a long while longer yet. And LP's are responsible for discriminating how?

    To their own garden or to another compassionate growers garden. That's right just like what's been going on. But without the abuse. They can regulate things properly with our tax money but they are too fucking stupid and greedy to figure that out.
    The MMAR was beyond repair when it was launched, and the problems just got worse, and you want it to continue so you can give free meds away from your magic garden that you have time to tend after your full time job? And you expect people to line up to grow illegally in all of their spare time so that they can give it away for free, really? More wishful thinking. What about asprin, should that be nonprofit too?

    Bullshit and stop grasping at straws.
    So tell us in your infinite wisdom, who can and who can't earn a profit from the sick and dying? Are doctors out of business?, what about nurses?

    How the fuck would you know how much     marijuana I grow? You do not so don't make a criminal accusation on an open forum. If you believe your definition of "criminal" then you my lady just broke the law. Rich and generous? You truly are blind. It's called compassion. Have you ever been shown any by anyone in your life time? I have given away more free marijuana to sick people then you will ever grow or buy and sell in your life time. I guarantee that.
    So please enlighten us how you figure on giving it away for free on an open forum? Not rich, not growing more than your supposed to, oh yah, you are righteous and virtuous, and the law doesn't apply to you. Right, the compassion to sell it wholesale to drug dealers, so you can give it away to the sick, my teenage son is thanking you for your compassion. Wow you have given a lot away than, so what, your proud of being a criminal. Own it, or explain how you can afford to give it away? You'll excuse me if I lump you in with the two thirds of DG's who have found the way to give it away with the help of the black market.
    You should tell us all your secret so we can all give it away.

    Hypocrite. Forcing sick people to get meds from only a handful of LP's is exactly that. Choice should be the patients. If you think the government is going to give out shit loads of LP licenses then once again you are out to lunch. Legal way. Ya right. It will be fun to watch the government "try" to take rights away from patients that have already been given to them by both the government and mother nature.
    I am not forcing anything, I am only adding choices for patients, and clear choices too, illegal or legal, black or white markets, no more bullshit, hiding behind your moral high ground all the while shitting on the kids that are buying your overage. Free meds, your the problem, but you are too stuck to see it.
    By "fighting the MMPR" you may be doing all the forcing, to the black market, though all the naysayer arguments I've heard so far don't worry me in the least.

    Their will be plenty of LP's, time will tell.

    I think it is gonna be sad to see our government prosecute people for growing their own, "fun" was not a word I would have chosen.

    After months of abuse, not one of you naysayers has explained to me how any of these changes were created by LP's, or how pursuing the MMPR has anything to do with the death of the MMAR. Why is opening another avenue of getting marihuana to the public a problem for you? Help me understand your hate for all LP's. Could we not have the MMPR and the MMAR at the same time like now?

    Keep up your righteous and virtuous rant about how moral it is to give out free meds, while ignoring all the consequences because your above the law. You are not Robinhood, though you sure do sound like him, if you don't ask yourself, where is he getting all this free marihuana?

    ​




 
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