Astir Grow Led Panel Project...

cmantis

Member
So you prefer using white led's? My experience is with reef tank lighting and from what I have gathered white led kelvin ratings are at best a guess. Usually what they are labeled doesn't match to what a t5 or hid would. I am trying to design my own grow led and here is what led's are available to me. I would really appreciate your input or recommendations as to what to use and at what ratios.

[FONT=宋体]850
730
660
630
600-610
595-600
520
460
450-455
440-445
410-420
400-410
380
W(3000-3500k)
w (4000-5000k)
W(6000-6500k)
W(6500-7000k)
W(7000-7500k)
W(7500-8000k)
W(8000-8500k)
W(10000-12000k)
W(12000-14000k)
W(16000-18000k)
W(18000-20000k)
W(20000-22000k)
[/FONT]
 

weedman420gr

Active Member
Let me do a parenthesis on the subject

(As i dont have much knowledge of this kind to offer, let me share with you my little Stealth cabinet with 2 x "astir like" led panels(similar panels to astir)...

The panels are not ready yet ( waiting for supplies to arrive from china) but you can see the basic set up...




The panels are hanged on two seperate(single) curtain rails, so i can move them easily by just pushing them right or left...in such small area,i dont have to move them at all,but its a good idea for bigger grow rooms )
 

Attachments

stardustsailor

Well-Known Member
So you prefer using white led's? My experience is with reef tank lighting and from what I have gathered white led kelvin ratings are at best a guess. Usually what they are labeled doesn't match to what a t5 or hid would. I am trying to design my own grow led and here is what led's are available to me. I would really appreciate your input or recommendations as to what to use and at what ratios.

[FONT=&#23435]850
730
660
630
600-610
595-600
520
460
450-455
440-445
410-420
400-410
380
W(3000-3500k)
w (4000-5000k)
W(6000-6500k)
W(6500-7000k)
W(7000-7500k)
W(7500-8000k)
W(8000-8500k)
W(10000-12000k)
W(12000-14000k)
W(16000-18000k)
W(18000-20000k)
W(20000-22000k)
[/FONT]
Wow...
Now I feel jealous....

Unfortunately,there is not a simple and straightforward answer ,to your question...
Led Spectrum choise is still ,under research...
Many different choices seem to work fine,while others don't....
Moreover,one has to take into account,factors like strain(s),method of cultivation,overall power of flux,cultivation space,ect...
 

PetFlora

Well-Known Member
RE: SDS Post #319 (did not want to quote all that) while your 'too much green' hypothesis COULD be true, outdoor plants are getting an abundance of broad band 'green' every day. I would think there is no perceptible actinics in father sun

Also, there is a huge difference between Green actinic and the broad band of GREEN which is made up of ~500-600 nms

Got a perplexing issue here, input appreciated.

I grew some of my F1 X seeds last row. ZERO hermies out 8 seeds (and I did use
HOT5 Coral Wave at some point during veg) . I added the HOT5 Coral Wave ~ 3 weeks ago, during middle veg (but no offsetting 660). So far 2 of those F1 cross plants are hermies.

I have the same cross in the led/cfl tent, but they have yet to preflower, so hard to tell whether it was the CW, or, the new Hydro-Research VEG+BLOOM formula (he added fulvic acid).

I have 3 other plants in the T5 tent that are close to sexing. Needless to say, I replaced the CW with a ATI Special Blue Actinic

I also emailed HR, as he did say fulvic was for flower, but he includes it in his one step formula. Maybe he has too much fulvic, or he needs to provide fulvic as a flowering additive. Dunno. But I am pissed that the same F1 seeds I grew last time with zero hermies are now expressing hermie, so far 2/8. Worse these were my 2 hardiest seedlings (strong clone possibilities now shot). What a fucking waste of 2 months. Hopefully, the remaining 3 under T5s will be females + the 2 in the led/cfl tent
 

stardustsailor

Well-Known Member
Dear PetFlora...
Really,I can't make any hypothesis about the hermie issue...
Light stress can provoke hermaphroditism...

But..
For starters I would have been checking my time-switches..
Some of them (specially the digital ones) ,with some led drivers/fixtures,they do not cope well...
Meaning that ,even when switched off ,the leds still emit some dim light...
Of course ,that can provoke hermies...

As for the fulvic acids...
Dunno really...
They act mainly as organic chelating agents..(Making colloids,diffusing the ions ,easily through cellular membranes...)
I can't see how they can provoke hermies...

Maybe it is the individual genomes of plants,the cause of such thing...
(Which ,I also give few possibilities to stand true...)

Dunno really....

But check ,for better or for worse,if your time-switches ,switch off the leds ,totally...
 

akaki

Well-Known Member
Dear PetFlora...
Really,I can't make any hypothesis about the hermie issue...
Light stress can provoke hermaphroditism...

But..
For starters I would have been checking my time-switches..
Some of them (specially the digital ones) ,with some led drivers/fixtures,they do not cope well...
Meaning that ,even when switched off ,the leds still emit some dim light...
Of course ,that can provoke hermies...
you can something for this....
the most simple is to connect a incandescent lamp after your time-switch...and then connect the drivers.
or install a capacitor parallel with the input of the driver
 

psynobi

Member
Let me do a parenthesis on the subject

(As i dont have much knowledge of this kind to offer, let me share with you my little Stealth cabinet with 2 x ASTIR led panels...

The panels are not ready yet ( waiting for supplies to arrive from china) but you can see the basic set up...




The panels are hanged on two seperate(single) curtain rails, so i can move them easily by just pushing them right or left...in such small area,i dont have to move them at all,but its a good idea for bigger grow rooms )
good luck with your DIY panel man... i see you are following Astir way.. remember our instructions and i think you will make a descent light for you box...


 

stardustsailor

Well-Known Member
Yes....
We never had hidden away ,any detail about ,how one can make his/her own ,Astir panel....
In fact we had posted all the schematics and smallest details needed,so for one ,to DIY a panel like that ..
(It's not so difficult,anyway...)
We also have encouraged ,everyone who decides to DIY ,
to keep experimenting,choosing different variations of led selections,based always on white leds....
We have our reasons to do so...
Not so difficult,either to guess why....
All these I'm saying ,there're a lot of people-out there-,that can absolutely ,verify...
And always ,we get very happy to see people getting good results from their DIY panels...

As for the official Astir panels (soon ,I guess,to be released) ..
Target group there,is the non-DIYer's...

We begun as DIYers,ourshelves,also...
Still that is ,what we are...
And we respect our community...
No secrets kept ,hidden in dusty ,old chests...

Afterall ,the final goal ,remains the same..
Grow efficiently with leds...

And the basic substance needed ,for our community to succeed in that is shared knowledge.
Shared knowledge that is sourced by the numbers of people ,who they search and experiment..
No matter "winning" or "loosing"...

Usually the official "led grow panel " market ,follows
the researches and experiments done by big led manufacturers and univ/ties ....

But the latter ,are concerned mainly with the use of leds as complementary illumination,to large greenhouses....
They really care for the use of leds,in horticulture,but not in growrooms/growtents...
They go for the large scale horticulture...
Where the lights hang pretty high up (and can't be 10 panels ,10cm away from plants ,for just a space of 3'x3' or 4'x4'..)
So they use high power leds and lenses amongst other...
Yes ,because at that case ,the difference in led efficiency (droop) and losses from lens polymer/glass ,are pretty minimal ,to the gains of utilisation..
(no reflective walls or mylar,on vast greenhouses....)

And the main source of light ,remains the sun....

Leds ,there are used to fill in wls that are missing (not much 660 nm light in nothern climates-for north hemisphere-)..
Or to aid , growing just seedlings at wintertime.. (blue leds +reds)
Or to speed up flowering/fruiting (FR )...
Or -still really experimental-to protect from pathogens (UVa ) and/or enhance taste/smell /antioxidant content...
And soon for many other purposes....
But not for complete growth cycle....

Leds are not ment to be the solely light source ,regarding utilisation in greenhouses...
(Neither hids are,in greenhouses) ..

But in a growroom/growtent of the average grower,
things are pretty much different..
And probably,there are also some(?) misconceptions involved....Guh-guh...


Oh...I can't sit and write all these details,right now....

Only some researches already done ,regarding use of leds in outer Space ,can really be helpful,for the average DIYer /grower ...
( Absolutely confined grow space ,surrounded with reflective material -- controlled enviroment )
But still, those were done ,some years ago,when YAG phosphor whites didn't exist ,neither high power leds...

And still ,they have talked -amongst others-,about RGB(= kind-of-"incomplete"-white) light being the best choice (at that time/ then )and
that leds work really efficiently when placed all over the 3-dimensional growing space (intracanopy illumination) ...
Meaning a lot to us...

-"Full "spectrum-(if possible : 280-750 nm ) for complete growth ,regarding utilisation of leds as the only and solely light source..
-And with "coverage " always the best way of illumination....(multiple panels / wide emission angles / close to leaf canopy )

Reminder: Knna has talked about those, same things , some years ago,also...

Got to hurry up ,for work...
Good morning everybody....
 

psynobi

Member
We never had hidden away ,any detail about ,how one can make by his/her own Astir panel....
In fact we had posted all the schematics and smallest details needed,so for one ,to DIY a panel like that ..
(It's not so difficult,anyway...)
We also have encouraged ,everyone who decides to DIY ,
to keep experimenting,choosing different variations of led selections,based always on white leds....
We have our reasons to do so...
Not so difficult,either to guess why....
All these I'm saying ,there're a lot of people-out there-,that can absolutely ,verify...
And always ,we get very happy to see people getting good results from their DIY panels...

As for the official Astir panels (soon ,I guess,to be released) ..
Target group there,is the non-DIYer's...

We begun as DIYers,ourshelves,also...
Still that is ,what we are...
And we respect our community...
No secrets kept ,hidden in dusty ,old chests...

Afterall ,the final goal ,remains the same..
Grow efficiently with leds...

And the basic substance needed ,for our community to succeed in that is shared knowledge.
Shared knowledge that is sourced by the numbers of people ,who they search and experiment..
No matter "winning" or "loosing"...
+1000000
have a nice day mate!
 

weedman420gr

Active Member
good luck with your DIY panel man... i see you are following Astir way.. remember our instructions and i think you will make a descent light for you box...



well thanks psynobi :) this year is gonna be named "The led year" or smthing like that...we are going to have many grows under led lights...your instructions are unique

many credits to Sailor,the "soul" of this research...






Dear Weedman420gr
how much did each of the panels cost to you? What heatsinks do you have?

Hey there tolakra,

It costed me about 70-75 euros for each panel...but i had to buy lot of new tools that i didnt had...so i guess,if you have the tools , you can propably save about 25-30$....

The heatsink's model is ST-20...i could not find them on ebay.i bought them from a local shop here in Athens for 30-33 euros each ( price of aluminum often changes)

thats about it...



Yes....
We never had hidden away ,any detail about ,how one can make by his/her own Astir panel....
In fact we had posted all the schematics and smallest details needed,so for one ,to DIY a panel like that ..
(It's not so difficult,anyway...)
We also have encouraged ,everyone who decides to DIY ,
to keep experimenting,choosing different variations of led selections,based always on white leds....
We have our reasons to do so...
Not so difficult,either to guess why....
All these I'm saying ,there're a lot of people-out there-,that can absolutely ,verify...
And always ,we get very happy to see people getting good results from their DIY panels...

I do have the detailed guide of "how to connect leds onto pcb" ..if you dont have it, or want to remake it ,let me know...:)

Btw , in such a small area such as mine , do you think i ll be able to keep the drivers on top of the panels ? or should they be outside the box ?
 

Panas1

Active Member
+1000
well said sailor :)

In the old forum.. there was a ton of information.. one could write a book out of it.. A lot of ppl.. we are thankful for that!
Keep (led)enlightening us mate!


weedman.. nice go man
Mayas have said that this is the year of LEDs ;p
keep us updated
 

stardustsailor

Well-Known Member
Btw , in such a small area such as mine , do you think i ll be able to keep the drivers on top of the panels ? or should they be outside the box ?

Better somewhere outside....And better install 1-2 12V "12x12" fans over the two heatsinks....
PC box is a confined space ,and that is a "weak link" in your whole cooling system...
If air remains stagnant ,things get worse...
Passive cooling may not work efficiently at such case...
You'd better install those fans....
 

stardustsailor

Well-Known Member
day 6th in veg for the young " wild " ones...( light cycle still 24/0 )
Three left ..
The "wicked" one was thrown into the abyss...( This is Spartaaaaaa..Ha-ha-ha-ha...)
..6th veg.jpg


As for the WR...
This lady is still flowering...
Without fan leaves....
( And some foxtailin' there ,also ?..Weird.... )
WTF ?
Time is pressing ..

I can't have her more in the tent...
The 3 young ones ,soon they have to be transplanted....

..62 1.jpg62 3.jpg62 4.jpg62th 2.jpg62 bu.jpg
 

PetFlora

Well-Known Member
Dear PetFlora...
Really,I can't make any hypothesis about the hermie issue...
Light stress can provoke hermaphroditism...

But..
For starters I would have been checking my time-switches..
Some of them (specially the digital ones) ,with some led drivers/fixtures,they do not cope well...
Meaning that ,even when switched off ,the leds still emit some dim light...
Of course ,that can provoke hermies...

As for the fulvic acids...
Dunno really...
They act mainly as organic chelating agents..(Making colloids,diffusing the ions ,easily through cellular membranes...)
I can't see how they can provoke hermies...

Maybe it is the individual genomes of plants,the cause of such thing...
(Which ,I also give few possibilities to stand true...)

Dunno really....

But check ,for better or for worse,if your time-switches ,switch off the leds ,totally...
I may have traced the problem back. I won't know until the plants in the two non- lava rock systems reveal their sex (they all look like females), but so did the others. And now it appears the 2 'hermies' are 98% males, so I'm going to collect the pollen and shoot for an F2 cross

Probable Cause

I reused lava rock in the 2 Air Pots in my DIY F & D system. I had cleaned/soaked the LR in a bleach solution that probably had too much bleach. I THOUGHT I had sufficiently rinsed it out. Checking the recirculated nutes after a couple days, the pH was ~ 10! The plants looked fine, but I immediately flushed: 48 hours in an extremely high pH could be the cause.

Later, I decided to convert my DIY Bubbler into a pseudo hybrid system by adding a grate for the roots to lie on so as not to soak in the nutes. I then decided to place lava rock on the grate, and drape the roots over the rock. Well both of those plants wilted within 24 hours: one survived, the other is probably dead at this point. The roots turned dark brown. The survivor has new white roots growing out of the old dark root mass. No signs of sex yet.

My order came in from Chinabuye. FYI, the low watt screw bulbs are ~ 2/3 the size of the ones from Lowes/HD


 

locoezon

Active Member
Afterall ,the final goal ,remains the same..
Grow efficiently with leds...

And the basic substance needed ,for our community to succeed in that is shared knowledge.
Shared knowledge that is sourced by the numbers of people ,who they search and experiment..
No matter "winning" or "loosing"...

Usually the official "led grow panel " market ,follows
the researches and experiments done by big led manufacturers and univ/ties ....


But the latter ,are concerned mainly with the use of leds as complementary illumination,to large greenhouses....
They really care for the use of leds,in horticulture,but not in growrooms/growtents...
They go for the large scale horticulture...

Where the lights hang pretty high up (and can't be 10 panels ,10cm away from plants ,for just a space of 3'x3' or 4'x4'..)
So they use high power leds and lenses amongst other...
Yes ,because at that case ,the difference in led efficiency (droop) and losses from lens polymer/glass ,are pretty minimal ,to the gains of utilisation..
(no reflective walls or mylar,on vast greenhouses....)

And the main source of light ,remains the sun....

Leds ,there are used to fill in wls that are missing (not much 660 nm light in nothern climates-for north hemisphere-)..
Or to aid , growing just seedlings at wintertime.. (blue leds +reds)
Or to speed up flowering/fruiting (FR )...
Or -still really experimental-to protect from pathogens (UVa ) and/or enhance taste/smell /antioxidant content...
And soon for many other purposes....
But not for complete growth cycle....

Leds are not ment to be the solely light source ,regarding utilisation in greenhouses...
(Neither hids are,in greenhouses) ..
+++++SAILOR!!!!:-D

[Example]


You’ll make the most of your greenhouse or other growing environment because the LumiGrow Pro series provides uniform light distribution without harmful hot spots. In addition, LumiGrow lights run 70% cooler than high intensity discharge (HID) lights, eliminating plant damage and problems related to unmanaged greenhouse temperatures. Hot-running HID lights stress plants as evidenced by high water and nutrient demand. By contrast, plants grow safely at any distance from LumiGrow lights.
 

stardustsailor

Well-Known Member
Yes,I 've seen it,already...
Pretty radical...
Ledengin & Cree,both 've entered the multichip led world...
Pheww...
i.e. CW-WW-Red-UV in one led...
I want couple of hundreds of those ....

These leds open new dimensions,already..('morning', 'midday' & 'dusk' effects,for example )
Plus the almost perfectly uniform light...
 

tolakra

Member
Theese are amnesia haze and fruit spirit from a friend
The panels being tested are for veg
2 x 2C-16N-4W-2red
2 x 2C-12N-6W-4red
zougkla.jpg
 
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