Balls to the Wall grow, Riddleme Gets Serious

cowboylogic

cowboylogic

Well-Known Member
I hear were you are coming from. But I light my garden alot like Riddle. Not how close I can get them to the tops. But more even and equal light if you will. The lumen coverage across the 6x4 area is pretty even. The canopy gets about (the same lumens, checked with a light meter) from end to end. This is about more than just coverage. I am pretty certain the spectrum is coming into play. Hmm... the early fall does have a nice warm glow to it.......
 
cowboylogic

cowboylogic

Well-Known Member
riddleme said:
This is exactly why I am doing the IR heat experiment since most things I have read compare a 400 watt CMH to a 600 watt hps, (performance wise) granted most reports are that the buds are a bit smaller but that the quality is better (trich & resin production) I believe that the heat is the main difference, hence the experiment, we shall see???
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I try to keep up/catch up with you posts. Guess I will just hang back and watch this one unfold. If you would stop posting now I may be able to catch up on my reading by the end of the year! :hump: Rock on. I will still probaly still spout of from time too time. Cause no way to catch up now. LOL
 
riddleme

riddleme

Well-Known Member
cowboylogic said:
I try to keep up/catch up with you posts. Guess I will just hang back and watch this one unfold. If you would stop posting now I may be able to catch up on my reading by the end of the year! :hump: Rock on. I will still probaly still spout of from time too time. Cause no way to catch up now. LOL
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Yeah I ramble a lot LOL, you spout off anytime my friend,,,,hey that is kinda like starsky and hutch

Ramble & Spout
 
desertrat

desertrat

Well-Known Member
riddleme said:
This is exactly why I am doing the IR heat experiment since most things I have read compare a 400 watt CMH to a 600 watt hps, (performance wise) granted most reports are that the buds are a bit smaller but that the quality is better (trich & resin production) I believe that the heat is the main difference, hence the experiment, we shall see???
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Ah, the light bulb has finally come on, so to speak. FYI - based on limited data, in my research in lighting for cutting edge wavelength specific info a 600 watt hps puts out something like 200 PAR watts while a 400 watt mh(no cmh but reason to believe it has similar PAR watts) has about 150 PAR watts. And for arcane reasons that comparison understates gap between hps and mh. What all that means is that the 600 watt hps light is giving plants half again more photons in the photosynthesis region of the spectrum than the 400 watt mh - tough hill to overcome so if you even get equal growth then you've supported the idea of a benefit for infrared, IMHO. And how great is it to be someplace where I don't have to let that other half of my avatar loose on the world :evil:
 
riddleme

riddleme

Well-Known Member
What I'm remembering is the PAR watts was 210 but I can't find the link (might be on one of my other computers (I have 5))

I'll see if I can find it?
 
That 5hit

That 5hit

Well-Known Member
are you using the cmh from start to finish
is the cmh = to the mh (whats the difference )
and explain making it rain
 
riddleme

riddleme

Well-Known Member
That 5hit said:
are you using the cmh from start to finish
is the cmh = to the mh (whats the difference )
and explain making it rain
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Yes will be using only the CMH for entire grow has the same spectrum as the sun including UVB (pic attached CMH compared to HPS)

CMH has better spectrum, has higher PAR watts, runs cooler but has limitations as well highest available wattage is 400 (many growers run 2 instead of using 1000 watters) and requires a magnetic ballast (will not run on digital) photon output = to most 600 watt bulbs causes fast growth so much so that it is required to suppliment silica due to faster increase in cell division (silica helps with this, I use DynaGro ProtK)

I totally explain making it rain in my calling all noob growers thread (sig link)
 
That 5hit

That 5hit

Well-Known Member
??? so is the cmh
yielding more and faster then standard bulbs
how much time does the this bulb shave off the grow
or how much more is the bulb yielding over other 400w'ers
am i saving on power cost over other bulbs
 
riddleme

riddleme

Well-Known Member
That 5hit said:
??? so is the cmh
yielding more and faster then standard bulbs
how much time does the this bulb shave off the grow
or how much more is the bulb yielding over other 400w'ers
am i saving on power cost over other bulbs
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I would say yes to better yields if used by an experienced grower (but that is true of all bulbs, the experience part)
I have seen some incredible grows using CMH

Most will say that the buds are smaller but that the quality is higher, the UVB helps with trich & resin production

no to faster finish, yes to faster growth

400 watts is 400 watts to the electric company, the bulb uses 4.6 amps
 
gumball

gumball

Well-Known Member
For what its worth, I can put my fingers an inch from a 100 watt CMH without being burnt. I tapped the top a few times (being cautious) and it was no worse than tapping the top of a 100 watt incandescent, IMO. My temp sensor is 2 inches from the cool tube, with the actual sensor away from light, shaded so to speak, and with my 30cfm cool tube fan, 60 cfm case fan I have 84 to 86 degrees.

This is not like any of your spaces though, it is a Computer case.
 
desertrat

desertrat

Well-Known Member
Here's the arcane info, unverified but sounds logical, as to why hps par watts deliver more useable light than an equivalent number of mh par watts:
Unfortunately PAR watts doesn't measure the energy that the bulb puts off which the plants use for photosynthesis and growth. It measures the energy that the bulb actually puts off as visible light, actually any light 400nm-700nm.
Plants use different wavelengths of light with different efficiencies. Red light is used with 2-5 times the efficiency of green light, but all wavelengths are treated equally when measuring PAR watts. This can be considered an improvement on lumens which count/----/--22 green light more than red light.

Also, plants use photons, not watts. Plant scientists use a PAR measure that actually counts photons. This is important because it takes 700W to make the same number of blue photons as you get from 400W with red photons but one blue photon makes the same contribution to creating sugar as one red photon (ignoring the other stuff that blue photons do like making leaves follow the light). So a 400 PAR watts bulb may be putting out exactly the same number of photons as a 700 PAR watt bulb. The makers of metal halide lamps love this measure because it makes their lamps look better relative to HPS bulbs. The metal halide bulb converts about as much energy into light as an HPS bulb, but creates fewer photons because they are bluer and each photon takes more energy.

So PAR watts are just another flawed measure, maybe a little less flawed than lumens, but also less useful because it is only published for a few lamps and the published numbers are difficult to verify.
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. Again, it's just info that would support your infrared theory even if the growth is just equal to a 600 watt hps.
 
riddleme

riddleme

Well-Known Member
Want to thank RMH for inviting me to check out Skunk Skool (google it) as it is a great place, lots of vetern growers with no hating, just sharing of info and discussion on techniques, I joined in last night and had a great time. I would invite all of to check it out! DesertRat your experiments would be well recieved there as the whole forum is like being in one of my threads. Not as many members, not as much traffic but still good place to chill
 
riddleme

riddleme

Well-Known Member
medicalmary said:
I thought you were doing this in your journal. no wonder all there was there is tumbleweeds. subscribed...

mm
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I started there, but seemed as if not everyone was finding it so I copied it here and simply decided to stay here with it maybe update the journal occasionally, seems most of the older members are not into the blog thing
 
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