Schalalala
Active Member
CRI70 all the way babe! We just need photons.
Can a light get too efficient
- Thread starter Uncle Reefer
- Start date
Rahz
Well-Known Member
For plant mass yes, I'm almost sure of it. I haven't dried any whole plants and weighed them but I suspect it would run pretty close to the Mcree estimates.
Rocket Soul
Well-Known Member
I like your setup, those 1800K, are those so called fullspectrum cobs/hortipink? Not monos, phospohor based? How do they grow? Have you made ppfd measurements? Do you use them for supplemental or main light?
you see 300 w watercooled lamp 3x50w 1800K and 3x50w 5500K
water tank ~60L , 2 x 120mm/2,5w /42cfm fan --- and one of my ugliest socks i could find.
For the real airflow out i can`t tell a real number - but i used one of these 120mm fans in combination with a diy corbon filter and can only estimate, that the carbonfilter reduced the airflow to a max. of 15-20cfm.
So compared with 600w HID / 2700m³ airflow// my 300w LED / 400m³ airflow is only 33,75% of HID.
when i sealed the water tank with a board, the water temp rised up to 50°C in equilibrium
and the lamp and tank radiated more heat to the room.
- i had to rise the airflow a bit to keep 30°C in hot summer days. Logically the water loss in the tank was not significant.
With an open tank and a wet sock + fans i vaporized ~4-5L / 18h
and stayed ~28°C with a higher RH.
How fast water evaporates is thus dependent
from the temperature,
on the size of the surface of the liquid,
how quickly the evaporated fractions are dissipated. (with wind)
The energy to vaporize water is taken from the ambient.
And don`t forget that there are more "heaters" in your grow room. Not only your 600W HID.
Thermogenesis in plants
In plants, normal breathing, in which even under optimal conditions 60% of the energy is released in the form of heat, does not warm the respiratory organs, as the heat is released immediately to the environment due to the open structure of the plants. However, some plants are even able to heat certain organs by thermogenesis.
and then... there is a whole army with trillions of little soldiers living in the basement close to the roots - with their own little metabolism heating the ambient.
in case of wet straw and wrong storing conditions they are even able to inflame organic materials.
I really appreciate that you put sone actual data down instead of what should be right in theory
Also in Spain?
Rocket Soul
Well-Known Member
Hang on for a while im a but lost on this...more or less you need the same amount to vaporize water @ 30°C
Compound / Boiling Point at normal pressure / Water 373.15 K, 100 °C, 212 °F
Heat of vaporization 40660 (J mol−1)
Heat of vaporization 2257 (J g−1) 1KWh = 3600KJ
1L of water needs ~ 0,6269KWh to vaporize
To explain this huge amount let`s guess where it comes from.
But first let me say that my personal experience growing with a watercooled LED lamp is far different from your numbers with HID and i never had to feed my squaremeter with 20L / day. I go with < 5l and much less airflow to maintain my room temp.
I suspect, that big part of the 12 KWh (you&me) need to vaporize 20L of water comes from the amount, RH and temp of the air, that you pull into your grow room.
To check and balance one could measure the temps, RH and real amount of the in- and outgoing air.
If then you deal i.e. with an airflow of 220cfm,
wich is ~375m³/h (1m³ of air = ~1KG)
you move 4500KG of air in 12h.
A huge quantity of thermal energy and if we estimate and imagine some real conditions
/ incoming air = 20°C, RH50%
/ out going air =29°C RH100%
Formula: c = Q / ( m * ΔT )
c = specific heat capacity of air@(25°C) = 1005 J (kg*K)
Q = induced thermal energy = 40702.5 kJ
m = mass = 4500kg
ΔT = temperature difference = 9°C
Time: 12h
power: 942,2 watt
, that means we have to put a steady amount of 942W into the air to get this amount of hot air and as it contains + 20L of water(ΔT 20°C-29°C) we have to add even more(17,4W) depending on the watertemp. of your 20L / before you put them into your grow pot.
OK. - if now this is to high - i suggest to take only 60% of the airflow (2700kg or m³) and we get 600W of HID heat responsable for this hot air.
But still we have not explained where 12KW come from !
and i send you a picture to understand what happens
View attachment 4089614
later i tell you - as i have to switch now !
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Properties_of_water
mahiluana
Well-Known Member
they are just warmwhite 2000-1600K with a blue450nm led behind a mixture of red phosphors silicone layer with a peak @ 650-660nm.
Logically the red orange layer is much more denser and the chips produce more heat than a coolwhite.
i buy (&sell) them since years and now they are ~10$ / 100W chip(32-36V *3A) in asia.
i drive them @ 10-20% of max. current - as specially red and warmwhite chips gain more than other whites by a lower chip temp and current.
you can use them for main & supplemental light with cool or neutral specs.
they are not all the same quality and you can find different layers indensity and Kelvins.
sorry - no professional equipment ---> but calculations may help
often they are rated with 80lm/w - and if you add the rule of 10% more flux / @half current you can reach a min. of 117lm/w with 12,5% current, wich is a lot (i estimate, that its even more)
if you compare it to an monochrome red cree led... and 64$ / 100W is not really expensive.
(the above + blue graph is 1800K)
from left to right 5 x 100W chip + 1 x 50W chip in paralell @ 30,4Vf / 315mA / 10W driver
10 x 1w in series // 55 parallel
100W / 50W each led is driven @ 5,7mA (~1,8 % of max. current(300mA)
and should reach incredible ~160lm/w
with 300mm x 15mm chip platine /12 x 3W in series / 32-36Vf -700mA / you can spread
the same spec. even better and cheaper per watt.
https://www.rollitup.org/t/adding-deep-far-reds-to-quantum-board-build.955848/page-2
If you feel depressed by alzheimer ---
--- just smoke more weed to feel the same -with a smile in your face
what kind of life are you getting from these chips ?they are just warmwhite 2000-1600K with a blue450nm led behind a mixture of red phosphors silicone layer with a peak @ 650-660nm.
Logically the red orange layer is much more denser and the chips produce more heat than a coolwhite.
i buy (&sell) them since years and now they are ~10$ / 100W chip(32-36V *3A) in asia.
i drive them @ 10-20% of max. current - as specially red and warmwhite chips gain more than other whites by a lower chip temp and current.
with 300mm x 15mm chip platine /12 x 3W in series / 32-36Vf -700mA / you can spread
the same spec. even better and cheaper per watt.
with a smile in your face
All of the chip boards in cheap Chinese cob lights I have used have failed after a year or so of use, even though they run them around 520 ma. Have any idea what the estimated PPF is from the spd ?
Yodaweed
Well-Known Member
That stuff has antifreeze in it, you might want to do some alcohol research cause you are drinking some gross stuff.
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Schalalala
Active Member
This is from a test of a 50 W chinese grow COB powered with 35 V x 1 A = 35 W
Strahlungsleistung = radiant power = 9,149 W
That means: 9,149 W / 35 W = 0,2614 = fucking 26 % efficacy.
For a comparison: With the typical 3000K CRI80 spectrum (LER = 330 lm), the LED would deliver 86 lm/W. Its a sad joke (just like every mahiluana posts).
Source:
http://www.ledstyles.de/index.php/Thread/26155-Wunschkonzert/?postID=367435#post367435
Strahlungsleistung = radiant power = 9,149 W
That means: 9,149 W / 35 W = 0,2614 = fucking 26 % efficacy.
For a comparison: With the typical 3000K CRI80 spectrum (LER = 330 lm), the LED would deliver 86 lm/W. Its a sad joke (just like every mahiluana posts).
Source:
http://www.ledstyles.de/index.php/Thread/26155-Wunschkonzert/?postID=367435#post367435
Wouldn't a comparison to a bridgelux meat chip (1750k ~87lm/w) be more fair ?
mahiluana
Well-Known Member
i hope they still run after 150.000h - with < 20% current and never rising above Tj 40°C
---------------- that will be when i sit on my rose-white cloud # 17 ------and laugh my ass.
as i told the dense silicone layer converts a lot of the light into heat, so the layer of warmw
chips always all become hotter, than a coolw of the same chip.
1800K --- Once your silicone gets too hot - you will note visible, unrepairable areas where decreasing transparancy will cause an "opto-thermal runaway"
To avoid this and not do it like @Schalalala - the little, stupid asshole crab
- i drive them very soft even watercooled.
http://dev.edman007.com/~edman007/pub/par-dli-cal.html
Schalalala
Active Member
That's just an example, I was trying to giving people an idea what 26 % efficacy means.... efficacy of an LM561C: 195 lm/W / 330 lm/W = 0,59 = 59 % efficacy.
86 lm/W / 330 lm/W = 0,26 = 26 % efficacy... only a brain dead monkey would use or sell them NOWADAYS.
mahiluana, why don't you just switch to proper cobs? Just buy Bridgelux V22Cs for fucking 10 Euros from digikey and be a happy retard. I mean, what do you pay for the garbage COBs? 5 Euros? 3 Euros? Or more? You are probably stupid enough to buy them for more
. All you do is fool yourself, your 1-2 customers and damage the enviroment.
mahiluana
Well-Known Member
you are a crabby little german NAZI from the most stupid www.grower.ch forum - and more stupid than you is only the tristan who delivered the datasheet.
when the datasheet does not even show Vf, If, no binning conditions and a cri of 0,0
i`m shure the one who bought the gonio-spectralmeter payed 2000$ for nothing - he is standing in the dark (CRI0,0) - and should have better spent it with his urologist having a deep look in his asshole
- measuring his prostata with this crappygonio
- ok will you ignore again and leave you in the dark
mahiluana
Well-Known Member
Schalalala
Active Member
The question is: What do you think about an COB with an efficacy of mind-blowing 26 % ?
Only an idiot would use it right?
And what do you think about someone who wants to sell these COBs and tell his customers that these are fine COBs? Probably that he's a dick because he sells garbage to people that don't know better.
Only an idiot would use it right?
And what do you think about someone who wants to sell these COBs and tell his customers that these are fine COBs? Probably that he's a dick because he sells garbage to people that don't know better.
PSUAGRO.
Well-Known Member
Is somebody calling me a brain dead monkey? 
........ if you look at the spd of the 1750k meat cobs, you would understand its low lm/w. I'm a big proponent of mucho" 660nm for flowering cannabis.
The bigger question == can a thread be too inefficient? ..... that's a resounding fucking YES
........ if you look at the spd of the 1750k meat cobs, you would understand its low lm/w. I'm a big proponent of mucho" 660nm for flowering cannabis.The bigger question == can a thread be too inefficient? ..... that's a resounding fucking YES
I get that, but you are missing my point. A Bridgelux meat cob is mostly a big fat band of red, spectrally not too dissimilar to the cheap Chinese grow cob.
I can use either of these as a supplement to a common 3000k 80 cri warm white to boost the red zone. Different purpose and some PPF\Joule numbers would be more useful
GrowLightResearch
Well-Known Member
What kind of efficacy is measured in percent?
Luminous efficacy is measured in lm/w. So what are you referring to?
You cannot use lumens.
Red @ 650nm 1 µmol/m²/s = 13.4 lux.
Green @ 550nm 1 µmol/m²/s = 147.2 lux
About a 10x variation based on wavelength.
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in other words you have no clue
nfhiggs
Well-Known Member
You comparison is extremely biased. Comparing radiometric efficiency to luminous efficacy is like comparing miles per hour to liters per minute.That's just an example, I was trying to giving people an idea what 26 % efficacy means.... efficacy of an LM561C: 195 lm/W / 330 lm/W = 0,59 = 59 % efficacy.
86 lm/W / 330 lm/W = 0,26 = 26 % efficacy... only a brain dead monkey would use or sell them NOWADAYS.
mahiluana, why don't you just switch to proper cobs? Just buy Bridgelux V22Cs for fucking 10 Euros from digikey and be a happy retard. I mean, what do you pay for the garbage COBs? 5 Euros? 3 Euros? Or more? You are probably stupid enough to buy them for more