Can someone list some benefits of vertical growing?

m4s73r

Well-Known Member
Oh no, yeah defiantly train your canopy, i thought we were talking about rotating the whole plant. Do you remember that thread about the plants on spinners to rotate continuously? that was craziness. But yeah train your plants into your screen. But growing them free standing with out a screen its better to leave them be. When i didnt use a screen id cut the backside of the plant off and then just stake it.
 

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
Oh no, yeah defiantly train your canopy, i thought we were talking about rotating the whole plant. Do you remember that thread about the plants on spinners to rotate continuously? that was craziness. But yeah train your plants into your screen. But growing them free standing with out a screen its better to leave them be. When i didnt use a screen id cut the backside of the plant off and then just stake it.
Occasionally the idea of rotating the whole plant comes up. I listen patiently until the part about supporting it comes up. I'm not biting until I get a good answer for that one and I haven't heard it yet.

For that matter, I'm gonna go out on a limb- as it were- and say that I've never personally seen a large plant shift position on a daily basis. Maybe my travelogue missed the land of rotating trees... o_O
 

Darth Vapour

Well-Known Member
I think people forget that we're talking about plants here and we all do this for our own reason, whether you're a hobbyist or this is your living, we're all after the same thing - the best results and the best numbers.

The reason I came here to talk about this is simply because I think it's wrong that vert is portrayed by some to be so much more efficient in practice than horizontal. I think there's very little between them. yields horizontal can't compete with" should be tied in with the reality that, in practice and for many reasons, horizontal often out-yields it.
Vertical growing comes with some serious challenges, and it's those challenges that stop it from being the hyper efficient super yielder that a lot of people go into it thinking it will be.

It's those challenges which ultimately balance the scales with horizontal, and mean that in the end the results don't marry up with statistics like "135% more growing area" If they did, there's be no debate. Are we seeing 135 percent more YIELD not a fucking chance
You've got to factor in the work involved, training and low plant numbers, at the risk of repeating myself, I'm talking about topping a plant, vegging it to 18" or so, and flipping it and being able to guarantee a minimum yield of top buds from that. I honestly don't think you can do that with a vertical unless you're surrounding the plant with bulbs.
This isn't about small plants and high numbers being necessary to negate the training aspect of it all. I'm saying 12-18" plants, topped early and vegged strong, if you were to put them in either system to be left to their own devices under a single bulb, flat gives more consistent and reliable results. Imo.
 

Darth Vapour

Well-Known Member
For me, the whole vertical = bigger yields is just a myth which has run wild since heath pulled that fantastic 2gpw grow. People are chasing the dream and failing time after time, that's just a fact evidenced by the average results of every documented vertical grow on the internet.

A lot of people are doing 0.5gpw, but are reluctant to change the system because of what's possible, not what is ever likely to happen.

Yes, in a system like that, done to perfection, you can pull ridiculous numbers. But who runs a system like that, really?

People need to know that vertical is a responsibility which requires time and knowledge and commitment to pull off even 1gpw...

I honestly would advise any new grower looking to safely and consistently hit close to that figure of good quality A grade buds, to grow horizontally.
 

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
For me, the whole vertical = bigger yields is just a myth which has run wild since heath pulled that fantastic 2gpw grow. People are chasing the dream and failing time after time, that's just a fact evidenced by the average results of every documented vertical grow on the internet.

A lot of people are doing 0.5gpw, but are reluctant to change the system because of what's possible, not what is ever likely to happen.

Yes, in a system like that, done to perfection, you can pull ridiculous numbers. But who runs a system like that, really?

People need to know that vertical is a responsibility which requires time and knowledge and commitment to pull off even 1gpw...

I honestly would advise any new grower looking to safely and consistently hit close to that figure of good quality A grade buds, to grow horizontally.
Vertical growing doesn't change the laws of physics, it doesn't magically double output... except in one way; per square foot. If that's important to the grower, vertical is an excellent choice. Nothing magical about it; nothing new, either.

As usual, barf vapid is stirring a strange brew of false assumptions just to see what kind of reaction he gets.
 

m4s73r

Well-Known Member
See youre still stuck on horizontal. If youre growing vertical why would you top? I have 2 stacked 600s. im wanting my plants to stretch to at least 5.5 foot. So you veg for 120 days. Nothing magical here at all. Its just a different technique. Vertical brings direct lighting to the plant. Where as horizontal is direct/reflected lighting. So by turning the bulb vertical, removing the reflector/Glass, im getting better light to the plants. Nothing reflected. No Glass between bulb and plant. Nevermind that I dont have 2 huge reflectors traping heat in my grow area. Or that it costs less on set up. (vertical socket is $35 vs the $120-200/Reflector)

My Cage is 9x5 or 45 sq ft. its in a 5x5 space. 4 plants 20 gall no till.
If i was to change this to a horizontal grow, at best i would have a 25 sq ft space. and only one 1k light. I would also be limited to the size of plants i could grow.

Vertical has better use of over all growing space. Period.
 

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
My veg is 90 days or less, fresh cut to bloom ready. I'm thinking I can still reduce that without hurting yields.
 

Darth Vapour

Well-Known Member
5 week veg is all I need to grow monsters.
exactly 5 weeks horizontal growers grow trees also right ? this thread is about pros n cons there is some pro;s if your limited to space then by all means giver on Vertical but to say its the better way to get better yields i beg to differ,, your going to need to spend lots of time training plants

M4S i was refering to putting 12 plants vegged 3 weeks both vertical one bulb lets say 600 watts and one 600 watt horizontal i suggested top once but lets not only thing grower does is water and leaves plants to grow on its own un touch plant which do you think would yield better just saying
 

Darth Vapour

Well-Known Member
Number 1 The majority of the heat produced by the HID is pushed upwards to your exhaust vs the horizontal hood that traps heat and directs it at your plant's. The main advantage to this is that you can put your plants closer to your bulb's without worrying about burning them, 1 grower I know can get his plants up to 6" from his 1000w bulb but keeps them back a few more inches due to the buds getting bleached from to much light!!

Debunk time :) is it that bad that heat is directed to plants ??? for every 10 degree rise in plant temps the plants metobolic rate doubles this means incredible growth :)
no need to put lights close to plants if a bulb was 2 " away from plant or 14 " its throwing the same power i have run 1000's 12 - 14" from tops with cool air blowing between tops and light but again no need to 23 " is perfect still get a good spread


Number 2 The next benefit of vertical growing is that you will be using 360o of your light, you want to absolutely cover the outer diameter of the bulb with plants so barely any light can escape, this will give you the best efficiency, you will be blasting your plants with as many lumen's as possible. Compare this method to a horizontal garden, if you look at the diagrams you can see that a massive 75% of the light is reflected thus killing a lot of lumen's in the process, lumen's that I'd prefer getting to my plants, and after all less lumen's = less yield and we don't want that now do we!

Debunk time simple any light shinning 360 degrees will in fact lose umol readings
anyone got par reader i dare yea to turn on that light and check par readings 6 " 10" 20 : away
Comparing that to a reflected light getting all of the light directed one way
Again Which way do you think would win as in par 600 horizontal with reflector 6 " 10 " 20 "
put your money on the horizontal for better par readings
i like how its says 75 percent of the light is reflected thus losing lumens lol lumens are for humans
again anyone got a par reader ??? check it out you might be shocked ..
oh by the way most good reflectors you lose 5 percent compared to losing the intensity 360 degrees


Benefit Number 3, This next benefit is for space, the amount of space you save by growing is phenomenal, a 600w lamp would be fit for a 4X4 area at very most, and even this is only a low 37.5 watts per square foot. compare this to a vertical set up, you could have a vert system 3 foot in diameter but 8 foot high and fill it with 300 plants have 5 of these in one room......ya get the idea?

Debunk time 300 plants one bulb 3 foot by 8 high giving you what ??? anyone ???? 30 watts or less per 24 Sq feet lot less then 37.5 watts in that given 16 Sq foot imprint and your going to out yield i know now wonder everyone says trees there stretched to fuck omg this is amazing god dam i am going to be the next Pablo ..
Yea Yea keep thinking that

Vertical growing has been done for some time now the ones that are killing it are the ones doing multiple lights but again do not dismiss horizontal cause there are many multiple light warehouses bringing in tonnage also..
So what are the numbers you donut drilling single bulb 600 or 1000s pulling down ??? lol
 

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
You know exactly not one whit about that which you blather, lol

The extra labour time to train? Wrong. Vertical means no bending over our under a flatlander ScrOG.

Hundreds of plants?! Da fuk? I grow six plants in a six by nine space.

I could go on and on, but it's like talking to the carnival monkey.

You do it your way, I'll do it mine.
 

Darth Vapour

Well-Known Member
I see you feel offended with what i posted ???
this can be a very good thread but its people like you that turn it into a closed thread ,,
i must of hit a nerve speaking the truth its great when the donut growers all chime in and talk about the great things about vert dismissing the cons as rubish shows your experience there guy none right
but again its about the numbers veg time and what have you
don't go into it thinking that the light chart and 135% more growing area translates easily into your final yield. It absolutely does not, and I think a lot of people are fooled into thinking that way by the fact that vertical growing is projected using figures such as those.

Do it because you want to try something new, but not because it's a way to guarantee bigger or even better yields, because in my experience it isn't. You only have to do your reading to see that for many other people, it isn't either.

It is a cool way to grow, and fun. But it's got to be projected properly and the truth I think gets lost a bit in the myth.

With a nice long columnar strain though, it can be a cracking way to get the most out of it. I thnk vert really comes into it's own in that instance.
 

jigfresh

Well-Known Member
No one is offended. You just don't know what you are talking about. Plain and simple. :)

.... but good effort. Sounds like your gears are really grinding up there on the 'myth of vert'. Go get em tiger.

Whatever you do... please just go away, guy. You are rude, have nothing positive to share, and are just in this thread to talk negatively about it's premise and the people in it. Not to mention you are incoherent and a bit fanatic. You are not doing anyone any favors by spewing the trash you are. Why not start your own thread about the numerous thoughts you have? Seriously, it's easy, you just click the 'Post New Thread' button.

And to be clear, it is members like you who get threads shut down. People who go into a thread just to debase and go against everything everyone is saying are the people who make this site a shitty place. People like you who just go around starting fights in order to spread their gospel of truth, whatever that may be. Ttystikk is a valuable member of this community, and I've never seen him be anything but a good guy to everyone. You, guy, are the one throwing dirt in peoples faces, then trying to turn their response into a reaction.

Go throw your shade somewhere else, we don't want it or need it.
 
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Darth Vapour

Well-Known Member
No one is offended. You just don't know what you are talking about. Plain and simple. :)

.... but good effort. Sounds like your gears are really grinding up there on the 'myth of vert'. Go get em tiger.

Whatever you do... please just go away, guy. You are rude, have nothing positive to share, and are just in this thread to talk negatively about it's premise and the people in it. Not to mention you are incoherent and a bit fanatic. You are not doing anyone any favors by spewing the trash you are. Why not start your own thread about the numerous thoughts you have? Seriously, it's easy, you just click the 'Post New Thread' button.

And to be clear, it is members like you who get threads shut down. People who go into a thread just to debase and go against everything everyone is saying are the people who make this site a shitty place. People like you who just go around starting fights in order to spread their gospel of truth, whatever that may be. Ttystikk is a valuable member of this community, and I've never seen him be anything but a good guy to everyone. You, guy, are the one throwing dirt in peoples faces, then trying to turn their response into a reaction.

Go throw your shade somewhere else, we don't want it or need it.
No one is offended. You just don't know what you are talking about. Plain and simple. :)

.... but good effort. Sounds like your gears are really grinding up there on the 'myth of vert'. Go get em tiger.

Whatever you do... please just go away, guy. You are rude, have nothing positive to share, and are just in this thread to talk negatively about it's premise and the people in it. Not to mention you are incoherent and a bit fanatic. You are not doing anyone any favors by spewing the trash you are. Why not start your own thread about the numerous thoughts you have? Seriously, it's easy, you just click the 'Post New Thread' button.

And to be clear, it is members like you who get threads shut down. People who go into a thread just to debase and go against everything everyone is saying are the people who make this site a shitty place. People like you who just go around starting fights in order to spread their gospel of truth, whatever that may be. Ttystikk is a valuable member of this community, and I've never seen him be anything but a good guy to everyone. You, guy, are the one throwing dirt in peoples faces, then trying to turn their response into a reaction.

Go throw your shade somewhere else, we don't want it or need it.

coming from a guy lol that did this ???

Numbers are in. Right about 6 oz. A little over a gram short. So 167 grams from 450 w of LED's.

If you use g/w, that's about 0.37 g/w. I would say my average in the closet using HID's was around 0.40-0.42, something like that. So using those numbers it's about 10% lower yield using g/w with the LED's vs HID's.

If one considers the electricity difference between the 6" 435 cfm I was running 24/7 with HIDs vs the 50 cfm bathroom fan I ran 24/7 I think the yield per electricity would be right on with the HID grows I've done.

haha seriously dude You know i came here all cool but it appears i rattled everyone i know i know truth hurts So yeah go ahead in your tight donut jerk group and bs each other on your yields lol
2
But yeah you sure killed it 450 watts of LED .37 GPW dude in all seriousness might be a good idea to get back to the basics cause you screwed up
here 432 watts of T5 ho oh by the way its 32 oz;s grown horizontal gallery_11738_4816_17019.jpg
 

Darth Vapour

Well-Known Member
I never said I was better than you. I said you were rude and had nothing to contribute. Thanks for proving my point.
Only thing i proved is you fucked up somewhere in your grow would you like me to find some journals horizontal ??? 450 watt led Yeah i thougt so
Now go read some hordiculture books and learn how to grow

PS i never said nothing that i grow better Although you already know lol but if your willing to start a fight with your comments towards me then you better at least have something to show not some pathetic thumb sized nugs and @ .37 lol
 

Darth Vapour

Well-Known Member
Hey Jig fresh here i just had to

Re: Mars II Reflector LED - Scrog - Grow Closet Journal
Total harvest from 5 plants: 450gr :slide:


:yummy:


Grapefruit: 95gr
https://www.420magazine.com/gallery/...0/SAM_8379.JPG https://www.420magazine.com/gallery/...0/SAM_8418.JPG


Critical+: 50gr

https://www.420magazine.com/gallery/...0/SAM_8485.JPG https://www.420magazine.com/gallery/...0/SAM_8495.JPG
(smoked up part c+ before)


Amnesia Strawberry: 70gr

https://www.420magazine.com/gallery/...0/SAM_8499.JPG https://www.420magazine.com/gallery/...0/SAM_8510.JPG


Pineapple Sativa(scrog): 106gr

https://www.420magazine.com/gallery/...0/SAM_9143.JPG


Pineapple Sativa 2: 130gr


Yup vertical sure schooled horizontal like i said before some are killin it with multiple lighting but really when we start talking single bulb donut to single bulb horizontal well a 10 year old could figure it out i wanna here with all BS set aside what are single vert 600's and 1000's pulling cmon kids you vertcakes keep thinking you out yield horizontals lets compare results
 
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