bEelzeBosS
Well-Known Member
Semantics. As I said before, yes it contains trace amounts of essential minerals, but it is still considered an inert growing medium.
Canna coco??
getogrow
Well-Known Member
Obviously , thats why im here debating. Its only considered an inert medium to folks who dont know any different. Just because a few thousand people use it and treat it like hydro does not make it inert by any means. Your washing out the nutes then calling it inert. that makes zero sense to me. What is "trace amounts " to you ? Coco is HIGH in K and salt unless washed.
I told 28 nicely that i was willing to start a thread just to debate that one thing. There are 40 of you to one of me. Im down like 16 flats.
getogrow
Well-Known Member
Folks like you are the reason i preach what i preach. I dont want a rookie going into growing anything and thinking coco is inert like perlite. Its not. Now when 28 is proven wrong , he says "it didnt happen" WOW ....
Please for the love of weed can someone please explain to these guys why coco is not even close to inert? my education level is not high enough to "talk the talk" , i can only spit facts.
twentyeight.threefive
Well-Known Member
I'm wrong. Sorry. You win.
Coir is just lignin.
It’s used for mushrooms because it has nothing nutritional in it which makes it resistant to mold spores and bacteria.
This same argument happens on shroomery from time to time. Plenty of people have tried to grow mushrooms in just coir and it doesn’t work.
Plants aren’t fungi but neither can survive without food.
Just start a journal growing in straight coir and put an end to it.
It’s used for mushrooms because it has nothing nutritional in it which makes it resistant to mold spores and bacteria.
This same argument happens on shroomery from time to time. Plenty of people have tried to grow mushrooms in just coir and it doesn’t work.
Plants aren’t fungi but neither can survive without food.
Just start a journal growing in straight coir and put an end to it.
twentyeight.threefive
Well-Known Member
Someone on here said they did a grow in coco without feeding it and not pHing it and it didn't show any deficiencies. Miracles happen every day lol.
SmokeyExcursion
Well-Known Member
I've used it with perlite mixed in. I run the GH flora trio.. I love canna coco and will stick with it. My last plant I vegged and trained for 10-11 weeks and got a LB of trimmed and dried off of one plant. I had to toss roughly 5-6oz in the compost from WPM. I probably could've saved half of that but tossed the whole colas for peace of mind. currently trying half cocoloco half canna with 10-20% perlite. Treating it like regular coco with great results and dont worry as much about missing a watering
getogrow
Well-Known Member
Im saying its not inert. im not saying you dont have to feed it.....geesh. You have to feed most soil too , that dont make it inert.
I wonder why they make coco specific foods ? Those would not exist if it was inert.
xtsho
Well-Known Member
Of course coco isn't totally inert. That doesn't mean there is anything that the plant can use. You could take a wad of human hair, stick it in a pot, and grow in it. Hair is comprised of various elements. It's 15% nitrogen but that doesn't mean any would be available to the plant.
twentyeight.threefive
Well-Known Member
You are arguing just to be right. We get it. Move on.
Scuzzman
Well-Known Member
pmsl- seems to be the way with threads when they get to 2 + pages long they go side ways as someone gets butt hurt or offended ..
I use Canna Coco - have used the same bags I brought 3 years ago, straight from bag into fab pots and water till you see runoff thats it -
I use Canna Coco - have used the same bags I brought 3 years ago, straight from bag into fab pots and water till you see runoff thats it -
getogrow
Well-Known Member
Im saying there is plenty in coco that a plant can use. unless washed thoroughly.
This is AFTER being washed. Yes all of that is useable by the plants. The Na is too high thus needing washed.You guys are not 100% wrong. I suppose i just read the definition of "inert' differently. Inert , to me means , nada. zero. Inert cannot hold onto nutes or moisture very well. inert has no cec.
If we cant even agree on the definition of inert then how are we supposed to learn from each other ? I dont do this to argue, i do it to learn. I have been proven wrong many times in my day. i dont mind at all.
I guess ffof is inert when the organics have not broken down yet but thats just not true.
xtsho
Well-Known Member
Cow feces. You do it to argue. All you want to do is fight.
You mind and you know it.
Now get out there and grow some damn plants!
Farmer Bean
Member
I feel a little responsible for resparking this thread up lol. I just browsed through but from my perspective it seems like its gotten lost along the practical vs technical vector. Im not sure who wrote what but my question is what is the practical application of knowing whether coir is inert or not. In actuality from my personal experience it can behave like both. It depends how you use it. Technically its not inert it breaks down and has a cec above 0 so technically its not. But the argument really falls apart if its about supporting a cannabis plant from start to finish seed to fruition with no additional inputs or ph adjustment. In my experiences the plants will be alive... but in any sort of application where your trying to produce anything with commercial intent doing thats gonna be a joke. Coco just not break down fast enough not without the biology to break it down present. Worms eat it. It can and does have organic as well as inert type properties depending how you use it. Its both in its potential applications.
That being said the cec being above 0 and taking into account the mobility and variability of the elemental uptake rates across the growth cycle, coir is a medium unsuited for recirculation and e&f type setups. Essentially what happens is the solution becomes IMBALANCED, so the ratios of the elements become unsuitable and essentially toxic to the plants roots and this manifests as something that looks like deficiency. When in reality its a lockout from a imbalance.
Check is cation exchange capacity which also adds a layer in that this is talking about cations specifically and that relationshio with the medium. Now my chem is amateurish at best but my understanding is that this means ions with a positive charge. Nitrates calcium and magnesium being the most relevant to cannabis cultivation. The differences in elemental uptake rates means that the main culprits in this cec thing are cal and mag, where on average nitrates are removed from the medium faster and more easily by the plants than can and mag. Cal is the slowest and least mobile of the elements and can build up in coir in a imbalance manner if not refresh/replenished/flush with a new solution source with the nutrient profile balanced. This is what happens in a hydroponic rez thats recirc if you go too long without a change. Calcium builds up in the solution because the plants eat all the nitrates first.
This is why rw is better for recirc than coir. Because once the rez is imbalanced and you keep dumping that ca laden rez water over the coir it sticks hard to the coir and is hard to unstick.
Rtw is where coir shines and is at its full potential imo.
The other variable im seeing is that these companies are designing these products. Often to function as a package. I run canna and don't deviate from their product too much. The crew I used to run with went to a private info session with sales rep for Canna, (Really nice Dutch guy my ex boss is tight with) and they have designed their product to work best together. Other brands would likely do the same. For better or worse quality.
That being said this Canna guy actually seemed to know very little about growing weed and was more of this like yeah yeah don't sweat the details just do what it tells you and it will be perfect. We tried things his way vs ours and it was not working correctly the ways that he told us. So we shot that shit down. My point being is regardless of technicalities what works is what works. The thing with this nutrient stuff and branding is that these companies are formulating this shit to have a averaged amount and ratios that work for the broadest customer base with the largest variables in grow style/experience/etc of potential customers. The nutrient profiles of these companies are pretty similar overall there just presented to you in xyz products in various amounts of bottles.
No modern coir company worth their NaCl is not going to replace the K and Na present with Ca and Mg. No is toxic in high concentrations and K is required in more elevated levels in the later parts of the cycle.
Maybe some more stuff I could add but this is getting to long for one post lol.
Just my take on where this threads vibes are at.
Let's not fight boys lol. Its only weed at the end of the day. Feels like catching ill vibes about something like mj is counter intuitive to the whole point if you ask me.
That being said the cec being above 0 and taking into account the mobility and variability of the elemental uptake rates across the growth cycle, coir is a medium unsuited for recirculation and e&f type setups. Essentially what happens is the solution becomes IMBALANCED, so the ratios of the elements become unsuitable and essentially toxic to the plants roots and this manifests as something that looks like deficiency. When in reality its a lockout from a imbalance.
Check is cation exchange capacity which also adds a layer in that this is talking about cations specifically and that relationshio with the medium. Now my chem is amateurish at best but my understanding is that this means ions with a positive charge. Nitrates calcium and magnesium being the most relevant to cannabis cultivation. The differences in elemental uptake rates means that the main culprits in this cec thing are cal and mag, where on average nitrates are removed from the medium faster and more easily by the plants than can and mag. Cal is the slowest and least mobile of the elements and can build up in coir in a imbalance manner if not refresh/replenished/flush with a new solution source with the nutrient profile balanced. This is what happens in a hydroponic rez thats recirc if you go too long without a change. Calcium builds up in the solution because the plants eat all the nitrates first.
This is why rw is better for recirc than coir. Because once the rez is imbalanced and you keep dumping that ca laden rez water over the coir it sticks hard to the coir and is hard to unstick.
Rtw is where coir shines and is at its full potential imo.
The other variable im seeing is that these companies are designing these products. Often to function as a package. I run canna and don't deviate from their product too much. The crew I used to run with went to a private info session with sales rep for Canna, (Really nice Dutch guy my ex boss is tight with) and they have designed their product to work best together. Other brands would likely do the same. For better or worse quality.
That being said this Canna guy actually seemed to know very little about growing weed and was more of this like yeah yeah don't sweat the details just do what it tells you and it will be perfect. We tried things his way vs ours and it was not working correctly the ways that he told us. So we shot that shit down. My point being is regardless of technicalities what works is what works. The thing with this nutrient stuff and branding is that these companies are formulating this shit to have a averaged amount and ratios that work for the broadest customer base with the largest variables in grow style/experience/etc of potential customers. The nutrient profiles of these companies are pretty similar overall there just presented to you in xyz products in various amounts of bottles.
No modern coir company worth their NaCl is not going to replace the K and Na present with Ca and Mg. No is toxic in high concentrations and K is required in more elevated levels in the later parts of the cycle.
Maybe some more stuff I could add but this is getting to long for one post lol.
Just my take on where this threads vibes are at.
Let's not fight boys lol. Its only weed at the end of the day. Feels like catching ill vibes about something like mj is counter intuitive to the whole point if you ask me.
twentyeight.threefive
Well-Known Member
Farmer Bean
Member
twentyeight.threefive
Well-Known Member
TLDR
Farmer Bean
Member
your perogative bro. You seem like the devils advocate of the bunch lol. I can dig it. Maybe someone else gets something.
twentyeight.threefive
Well-Known Member
Devil's Advocate? I think most people would agree. They don't want to look at or try to comprehend a wall of text. If you say so.