Certainty thought experiment.

Beefbisquit

Beefbisquit

Well-Known Member
eye exaggerate said:
Here's a question that I think might fit here. Either way.

If our universe was created from nothing, why would the universe be the only thing that was created?
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That's an awful big leap of faith, saying it was created from nothing.

How could nothing differentiate the potential for everything? How certain are we that nothing still exists outside of the universe as the cause of that which is within it. And, most importantly, did nothing go somewhere else for a beer after? :)
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We;re not certain of anything outside the observable universe.....
 
eye exaggerate

eye exaggerate

Well-Known Member
Beefbisquit said:
That's an awful big leap of faith, saying it was created from nothing.



We;re not certain of anything outside the observable universe.....
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What existed pre cause and expansion? Would 'it' be outside of the observable universe, or, still within it as a continual cause?
 
tyler.durden

tyler.durden

Well-Known Member
eye exaggerate said:
What existed pre cause and expansion? Would 'it' be outside of the observable universe, or, still within it as a continual cause?
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Before the Big Bang, the universe was in a different state; an extremely hot, dense and tiny state. It wasn't outside or within, it was the universe before the expansion...
 
eye exaggerate

eye exaggerate

Well-Known Member
tyler.durden said:
Before the Big Bang, the universe was in a different state; an extremely hot, dense and tiny state. It wasn't outside or within, it was the universe before the expansion...
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eye exaggerate said:
I knew it! Too hot, expand, have beer :)
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Seriously, though, what did it unfold into? If it is unfolding into (or out of) itself there never would have been a singularity to point to. It always would have been, and always will be. Dude, sounds awfully familiar.
 
Nevaeh420

Nevaeh420

Well-Known Member
tyler.durden said:
Before the Big Bang, the universe was in a different state; an extremely hot, dense and tiny state. It wasn't outside or within, it was the universe before the expansion...
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But, how long did the singularity last for?

The singularity could have just showed up and then started expanding into the universe or what?

Where did the singularity come from anyways? Where did all that energy come from to start a full universe?

I believe the singularity was created by a God, there is no scientific explanation to create a singularity, aka the very beginning of a created universe.

~PEACE~
 
tyler.durden

tyler.durden

Well-Known Member
eye exaggerate said:
Seriously, though, what did it unfold into? If it is unfolding into (or out of) itself there never would have been a singularity to point to. It always would have been, and always will be. Dude, sounds awfully familiar.
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That question may not make any sense. Before the big bang, there was no time or space, as spacetime was created after the expansion. Hard to wrap my mind around that. We have no idea what occurred before the expansion, it's gonna be fun to find out. Holding a cold, frosty beer, of course ;)
 
tyler.durden

tyler.durden

Well-Known Member
Nevaeh420 said:
But, how long did the singularity last for?
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We have no idea. The question itself may make no sense, since there was no time before the expansion...
The singularity could have just showed up and then started expanding into the universe or what?
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Currently, we have no idea...
Where did the singularity come from anyways? Where did all that energy come from to start a full universe?
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Again, we don't know. Since energy is neither created or destroyed, perhaps it had always existed...

I believe the singularity was created by a God, there is no scientific explanation to create a singularity, aka the very beginning of a created universe.
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Yes, that may be a comforting thought, but it is a conversation stopper. If we take the answer of a god, then that stifles the need to find the true answer. Also, instead of answering the problem, a deity simply confounds the problem. For then we a stuck with the infinite regression of what created god, and what created that, so on into infinity. If one answers that god has always existed, we may as well skip the god part and just accept that the universe has always existed (in some form)...

The reality is that we simply do not have the answers to many important questions at this time. This fact excites some (like scientists) and causes great fear in others (theists?). I think we need to be mature and brave enough to accept that we do not yet know these things in order to keep pursuing the correct answers and not be baited by easy, false solutions. However comforting they may be...
 
eye exaggerate

eye exaggerate

Well-Known Member
tyler.durden said:
That question may not make any sense. Before the big bang, there was no time or space, as spacetime was created after the expansion. Hard to wrap my mind around that. We have no idea what occurred before the expansion, it's gonna be fun to find out. Holding a cold, frosty beer, of course ;)
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Cheers :)

The part that is tough for me to wrap my head around is that the natural model shows on / off, etc.. as a basis. What my question tended to was that pre space-time, given that model, shouldn't have had a single point, maybe more of a series of them in a massive fractal 'mess' of causes, ever-living, ever present.

Goddam, models and beer.
 
Zaehet Strife

Zaehet Strife

Well-Known Member
Beefbisquit said:
Because an illusion doesn't have substance, or it's not an illusion, it's real. The fact that I'm using my mind to respond to you, means it can't be illusory. Your responses to me, could possibly be an illusion, but not my internal monologue and thought processes.
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Take the problem of free will for example, that a god (whatever god you want, make one up if you want) created the universe with the Big Bang, and everything in that universe is like clockwork, no choice, just the illusion of choice. No self, just the illusion of self.

I understand that I cannot deny the fact that it seems as if I do exist, but do I know with certainty that I am not merely a figment of the dream of a god, and in reality do not exist? I don't.

Like when you have a dream, and everyone in your dream that walks by going about their business, or that you have conversations with. Do they wonder whether or not they are in a dream? Do they have a separate consciousness apart from you? Or are we just creating them, that they don't really exist, that they are figments of my imagination manifest in my dream.
 
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