Concerned for a friend.

ClaytonBigsby

ClaytonBigsby

Well-Known Member
cannabineer said:
My best advice to you is to change the one thing you can, which is how you view overweight.
Step one would be "put yourself in his shoes".
Imagine now a metabolism jammed into famine mode. (There's real science behind that assumption.) Imagine that when you eat, when you don't eat, you are always hungry. Not appetite hungry, but winter's-coming-gonna-die! hungry.
That is the reality behind much of today's obesity. He KNOWS it's better to be skinnier, but his body is sending him emergency signals.
Compared to denying that sort of drive day in, day out ... kicking an advanced alcohol habit is easy.
And getting physically active while your body is circling the wagons is like asking you to play with a hangover.

Apologize to your friend for having "gone all scientific" (but without science!) and above all for having tried to bully him into enough shame to change. That's a good way to induce a suicide, in the extreme case.

Finally, explore what being a friend means to you. If you are actually this guy's friend... accept. Support. Don't camouflage moralism (every bit as offensive as those who would "pray your gay away") as concern. Be HIS friend, not the friend of "whom you want him to be". My opinion. cn
Click to expand...

About the physiologic assumption; why is this a new excuse? Why weren't a third of American people obese just 30 years ago? Seriously? Many people cannot remember that gas was ever $.89 in their lifetime, yet it was, in just 1999. They cannot believe that people were ever thin, but watch any movie from the 40's, 50's, 60's, 70's, or 80's, and 97% of people were skinny. Loom at pro football. People have blown up in the last few decades. The idea that it is genetic just doesn't work for me.

Coincidence that in the last few decades everythig has been supersized and sales of chips, candy, sodas, etc have skyrocketed? Look at the vending machines in schools now. Energy drinks? Sugar, sugar, sugar, processed food, more sugar, more fake food. I will believe it is an addiction perpetrated by the food industry, but not that over 30% of "Mericans" are overweight because of genetics.



http://www.sott.net/article/225759-A-Perfect-Storm-of-GMOs-Chemicals-and-Cancer
 
hsfkush

hsfkush

Well-Known Member
cannabineer said:
I understand, but that is his choice to make imo. If someone was on top of me to change all the time, I'd question that person's friendship. If you want him as a friend, take him as he comes. If he disgusts you, if you cannot get past the thought that he's making bad decisions ... you might be better off not hanging out with him. If you are a sloven's friend, like him as the sloven he is, not as the person you believe he can be. Ultimately you and I do not know how difficult it would be for him to change, because we have only our own drives, capacities and responses as a basis for judgment. cn
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But is it the right thing to do? I just feel that if I back off he'll only get worse...
 
Carne Seca

Carne Seca

Well-Known Member
cannabineer said:
My best advice to you is to change the one thing you can, which is how you view overweight.
Step one would be "put yourself in his shoes".
Imagine now a metabolism jammed into famine mode. (There's real science behind that assumption.) Imagine that when you eat, when you don't eat, you are always hungry. Not appetite hungry, but winter's-coming-gonna-die! hungry.
That is the reality behind much of today's obesity. He KNOWS it's better to be skinnier, but his body is sending him emergency signals.
Compared to denying that sort of drive day in, day out ... kicking an advanced alcohol habit is easy.
And getting physically active while your body is circling the wagons is like asking you to play with a hangover.

Apologize to your friend for having "gone all scientific" (but without science!) and above all for having tried to bully him into enough shame to change. That's a good way to induce a suicide, in the extreme case.

Finally, explore what being a friend means to you. If you are actually this guy's friend... accept. Support. Don't camouflage moralism (every bit as offensive as those who would "pray your gay away") as concern. Be HIS friend, not the friend of "whom you want him to be". My opinion. cn
Click to expand...
Hopefully if you and I keep repeating this people will start to realize it's actually a real issue and not an "excuse for fat people to be fat."
 
cannabineer

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
ClaytonBigsby said:
About the physiologic assumption; why is this a new excuse? Why weren't a third of American people obese just 30 years ago? Seriously? Many people cannot remember that gas was ever $.89 in their lifetime, yet it was, in just 1999. They cannot believe that people were ever thin, but watch any movie from the 40's, 50's, 60's, 70's, or 80's, and 97% of people were skinny. Loom at pro football. People have blown up in the last few decades. The idea that it is genetic just doesn't work for me.

Coincidence that in the last few decades everythig has been supersized and sales of chips, candy, sodas, etc have skyrocketed? Look at the vending machines in schools now. Energy drinks? Sugar, sugar, sugar, processed food, more sugar, more fake food. I will believe it is an addiction perpetrated by the food industry, but not that over 30% of "Mericans" are overweight because of genetics.



http://www.sott.net/article/225759-A-Perfect-Storm-of-GMOs-Chemicals-and-Cancer
Click to expand...
Massive selection bias. Movies didn't pretend to be real until lately. From what I've read, obesity was as bad in the 70s as now.

Btw I agree that a diet rich in sugars and carbs is a big problem here in the linked etiology of obesity and diabetes.
What individuals can do to make a big dent in their own weight and blood sugar metabolism is cut carbs, eat more meat ... and realize that dietary fat is not the boogieman the med community has painted it as being for as long as I can remember. cn
 
streets8r88

streets8r88

Well-Known Member
If he's going to change anything it needs to be on his terms because he will fall back into the same habits constantly. Try to get him involved in the matter. Look at local institutes that you could try to sign up for a nutrition course with him. It would give him something to do as well as help him really learn at least about the consequences of his unhealthy lifestyle. You could learn a lot from the course too probably. There are tons of interesting ways to change and it's never too late. If you feel that he has a problem with alcohol on the other hand, then he may be sick and need help from a rehabilitation center that can give him help that you can't give to him no matter how hard you try.
 
billybob420

billybob420

Well-Known Member
cannabineer said:
Massive selection bias. Movies didn't pretend to be real until lately. From what I've read, obesity was as bad in the 70s as now.

Btw I agree that a diet rich in sugars and carbs is a big problem here in the linked etiology of obesity and diabetes.
What individuals can do to make a big dent in their own weight and blood sugar metabolism is cut carbs, eat more meat ... and realize that dietary fat is not the boogieman the med community has painted it as being for as long as I can remember. cn
Click to expand...
You're saying the rate of obesity has remained unchanged?
 
ru4r34l

ru4r34l

Well-Known Member
ClaytonBigsby said:
About the physiologic assumption; why is this a new excuse? Why weren't a third of American people obese just 30 years ago? Seriously? Many people cannot remember that gas was ever $.89 in their lifetime, yet it was, in just 1999. They cannot believe that people were ever thin, but watch any movie from the 40's, 50's, 60's, 70's, or 80's, and 97% of people were skinny. Loom at pro football. People have blown up in the last few decades. The idea that it is genetic just doesn't work for me.

Coincidence that in the last few decades everythig has been supersized and sales of chips, candy, sodas, etc have skyrocketed? Look at the vending machines in schools now. Energy drinks? Sugar, sugar, sugar, processed food, more sugar, more fake food. I will believe it is an addiction perpetrated by the food industry, but not that over 30% of "Mericans" are overweight because of genetics.



http://www.sott.net/article/225759-A-Perfect-Storm-of-GMOs-Chemicals-and-Cancer
Click to expand...
fructose is the reason and your right on the money

http://livinlavidalowcarb.com/blog/the-sudden-switch-from-sucrose-to-fructose-made-us-fat-and-sick/2105
Prior to switch from sucrose to fructose in the 1970s, the average American consumed about 1/2 pound of fructose, mostly in the form of high fructose corn syrup (HFCS), annually. In 1997, wanna know how much fructose people in the United States were eating? Hold on to your hat because this is a SHOCKER–60 POUNDS A YEAR!!!
Click to expand...
regards,
 
J

jtprin

Well-Known Member
cannabineer said:
Massive selection bias. Movies didn't pretend to be real until lately. From what I've read, obesity was as bad in the 70s as now.

Btw I agree that a diet rich in sugars and carbs is a big problem here in the linked etiology of obesity and diabetes.
What individuals can do to make a big dent in their own weight and blood sugar metabolism is cut carbs, eat more meat ... and realize that dietary fat is not the boogieman the med community has painted it as being for as long as I can remember. cn
Click to expand...
Eating a lot of meat lowers your lifespan.

http://extremelongevity.net/2012/03/13/eating-red-meat-reduces-lifespan/
 
bowlfullofbliss

bowlfullofbliss

Well-Known Member
Carne Seca said:
Hopefully if you and I keep repeating this people will start to realize it's actually a real issue and not an "excuse for fat people to be fat."
Click to expand...
Carne, with that, and what cn said, there is still something to be said that he clearly loves his friend enough to be very upset about this, enough to actually get involved and not just watch, and to come here and ask for more help. that's pretty great. this friend is well on their way to diabetes, which could hurt them physically, if not kill them.

so many times I see obese people and think to myself, how did you let this happen, and why didn't anyone try to help you. at least this guy is doing something about it, like a good friend, even though somewhat misguided. I wish someone had tried to stop me before i found myself in the situation i'm in.

just sayin'.
 
Carne Seca

Carne Seca

Well-Known Member
Yeah I've been saying that on here for the last two years and have been ridiculed and heckled for it.
 
cannabineer

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
Carne Seca said:
Hopefully if you and I keep repeating this people will start to realize it's actually a real issue and not an "excuse for fat people to be fat."
Click to expand...
I'm diffident. People "know what they know" and will cherish a comfy preconception ... with remarkable tenacity. What my hope is ... is that those whom we pay to be critical thinkers, biomedical researchers, will dare to oppose the processed-carb producers' lobby. Higly-fuckedup corn syrup is cheap and hugely plentiful. It's a market big enough to attract the usual devotees of Niccolò. cn
 
ClaytonBigsby

ClaytonBigsby

Well-Known Member
cannabineer said:
Massive selection bias. Movies didn't pretend to be real until lately. From what I've read, obesity was as bad in the 70s as now.

Btw I agree that a diet rich in sugars and carbs is a big problem here in the linked etiology of obesity and diabetes.
What individuals can do to make a big dent in their own weight and blood sugar metabolism is cut carbs, eat more meat ... and realize that dietary fat is not the boogieman the med community has painted it as being for as long as I can remember. cn
Click to expand...
Agreed, if you're hungary "all of the time", eat salads, veggies, and fruit; not buckets of fried chicken, bags of chips, liters fo soda, etc.


Obesity is a relatively new problem. In the past, pre-fast food explosion of the 80's, most obese had Thyroid problems, or another actual physiologic issue.



 
billybob420

billybob420

Well-Known Member
bowlfullofbliss said:
Carne, with that, and what cn said, there is still something to be said that he clearly loves his friend enough to be very upset about this, enough to actually get involved and not just watch, and to come here and ask for more help. that's pretty great. this friend is well on their way to diabetes, which could hurt them physically, if not kill them.

so many times I see obese people and think to myself, how did you let this happen, and why didn't anyone try to help you. at least this guy is doing something about it, like a good friend, even though somewhat misguided. I wish someone had tried to stop me before i found myself in the situation i'm in.

just sayin'.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I gotta agree.

If you had a friend who was killing themselves with an addiction you'd be a bad friend not to try and help them. Whether it's drugs, or an addiction to a poor diet.

People suffering from addictions have a better chance of beating them when they have support of others. Of course, the person needs to want help, but once they do, they have a far better chance beating it when there's a support system of some sort.
 
Carne Seca

Carne Seca

Well-Known Member
bowlfullofbliss said:
Carne, with that, and what cn said, there is still something to be said that he clearly loves his friend enough to be very upset about this, enough to actually get involved and not just watch, and to come here and ask for more help. that's pretty great. this friend is well on their way to diabetes, which could hurt them physically, if not kill them.

so many times I see obese people and think to myself, how did you let this happen, and why didn't anyone try to help you. at least this guy is doing something about it, like a good friend, even though somewhat misguided. I wish someone had tried to stop me before i found myself in the situation i'm in.

just sayin'.
Click to expand...
I was addressing cn's post. I wasn't saying anything about his friendship.

I'm glad he cares enough to try and intervene. Although his methods are a little... umm... harsh. :p
 
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