Could EC affect my automatic bilge pump?

O

Old Person

Active Member
Could EC affect my automatic bilge pump? I have a recirculating system that uses a collection basin to house a Rule 1100gpm automatic bilge pump which returns nutrient back to the res. My problem happens usually at flush, when I run straight RO. I’m not the worlds smartest man, but I believe that somehow the EC is causing my sensor to not energize the pump, leading to the small collection box to overflow. Certainly someone else has had this problem…….I’m going to test the pump in two small containers, one with nutrient solution with an EC of 2.0 and the other container with straight RO.
 
Billy the Mountain

Billy the Mountain

Well-Known Member
Old Person said:
Could EC affect my automatic bilge pump? I have a recirculating system that uses a collection basin to house a Rule 1100gpm automatic bilge pump which returns nutrient back to the res. My problem happens usually at flush, when I run straight RO. I’m not the worlds smartest man, but I believe that somehow the EC is causing my sensor to not energize the pump, leading to the small collection box to overflow. Certainly someone else has had this problem…….I’m going to test the pump in two small containers, one with nutrient solution with an EC of 2.0 and the other container with straight RO.
Click to expand...
No, the salinity of the fluid is unrelated to the operation of a pump.

By all means, do an A/B test to confirm or deny.
 
O

Old Person

Active Member
I was referring to the sensor that activates the pump….they are integrated. So I was thinking the sensor used the water as a conductor and EC seemed to be my causing me problems during flush (0.3EC) it has happened three prior runs….. the pump is not actuated by a mechanical float……it is one that "senses" water…..I believe that my RO water is too clean (ec is too low) to activate the water "sensing circuit" I just can’t believe these would be that dam picky???
 
Absorber

Absorber

Well-Known Member
Old Person said:
I was referring to the sensor that activates the pump….they are integrated. So I was thinking the sensor used the water as a conductor and EC seemed to be my causing me problems during flush (0.3EC) it has happened three prior runs….. the pump is not actuated by a mechanical float……it is one that "senses" water…..I believe that my RO water is too clean (ec is too low) to activate the water "sensing circuit" I just can’t believe these would be that dam picky???
Click to expand...
It could be causing it ,have you got some pictures of the probe and controller. There may be an adjustment pot to adjust sensitivity threshold .
 
O

Old Person

Active Member
Absorber said:
It could be causing it ,have you got some pictures of the probe and controller. There may be an adjustment pot to adjust sensitivity threshold .
Click to expand...
It is an integrated assembly ……no adjustments…but….. your suggestion about adjusting the sensitivity is right on!!!
I’m very interested in testing the pump in a bowl of ro water vs. nutes 2.0 EC……..
 
Absorber

Absorber

Well-Known Member
Old Person said:
It is an integrated assembly ……no adjustments…but….. your suggestion about adjusting the sensitivity is right on!!!
I’m very interested in testing the pump in a bowl of ro water vs. nutes 2.0 EC……..
Click to expand...
I use electronic liquid level controllers like this , this particular one is on a 20ltr bucket that sits under my dehumidifier and triggers to pump the water away .
You can see it has an adjustable sensitivy dial in picture . Shame yours isnt adjustable 20241016_134948.jpg
 
Billy the Mountain

Billy the Mountain

Well-Known Member
Old Person said:
I was referring to the sensor that activates the pump….they are integrated. So I was thinking the sensor used the water as a conductor and EC seemed to be my causing me problems during flush (0.3EC) it has happened three prior runs….. the pump is not actuated by a mechanical float……it is one that "senses" water…..I believe that my RO water is too clean (ec is too low) to activate the water "sensing circuit" I just can’t believe these would be that dam picky???
Click to expand...
Ok, my mistake, I did assume it used a integrated float mechanism.
If not, it almost certainly uses a simple capacitance sensor that relies on conductivity to complete a circuit and trigger the pump relay.
If the EC varies a lot, the sensitivity needs to be adjusted. It's a bummer yours doesn't have a potentiometer like the one pictured.
 
O

Old Person

Active Member
Billy the Mountain said:
Ok, my mistake, I did assume it used a integrated float mechanism.
If not, it almost certainly uses a simple capacitance sensor that relies on conductivity to complete a circuit and trigger the pump relay.
If the EC varies a lot, the sensitivity needs to be adjusted. It's a bummer yours doesn't have a potentiometer like the one pictured.
Click to expand...
I’m playing around with building a drain box with two pumps for redundancy just in case. Hopefully today I will get time to test my RO theory……I have also considered not running RO any longer during flush… , just tap water for the for the last week…..
 
Pungolian

Pungolian

Well-Known Member
Those rule pumps are notorious for those sensors going bad, especially in boats. I know Ive probably replaced conservatively 15 of them in the last 10 years in my boats. Mind you they are exposed to all kinds of contaminants including fuel, oil, trash, leaves, dirt etc. More effective in marine world is seperate rule pump from float switch (rule) is much more reliable than the electronic versions. Dont know if this helps you but I Thought i would give my opinion since I have a lot of exp with rule pumps.
 
Billy the Mountain

Billy the Mountain

Well-Known Member
Old Person said:
I’m playing around with building a drain box with two pumps for redundancy just in case. Hopefully today I will get time to test my RO theory……I have also considered not running RO any longer during flush… , just tap water for the for the last week…..
Click to expand...
If you're building something DIY, consider the VLC-03L sensor/relay pictured above. They're only ~ $10 or so via Alibaba and the like.
A capacitance sensor won't work with distilled water since it relies on conductivity of the fluid to complete a circuit.
Alternatively, like @Pungolian mentioned, a traditional float switch would work consistently regardless of the salinity.

If you're into microcontrollers and desire more DIY, this is a $2 raw capacitance water sensor I've used in a previous project and likely very similar to what's used in any non-mechanical water sensor.
The output voltage will vary a little depending on the water level, but it's really best used as an on/off sensor.
1729087003813.png
 
Absorber

Absorber

Well-Known Member
Old Person said:
I’m playing around with building a drain box with two pumps for redundancy just in case. Hopefully today I will get time to test my RO theory……I have also considered not running RO any longer during flush… , just tap water for the for the last week…..
Click to expand...
This liquid level controller should sort you out it has all the bits needed and has a sensitivity pot and runs of 24v-240v ac/dc ,tap on the word "this" for link

Screenshot_20241017-114648_DuckDuckGo.jpg
 
Last edited:
O

Old Person

Active Member
Pungolian said:
Those rule pumps are notorious for those sensors going bad, especially in boats. I know Ive probably replaced conservatively 15 of them in the last 10 years in my boats. Mind you they are exposed to all kinds of contaminants including fuel, oil, trash, leaves, dirt etc. More effective in marine world is seperate rule pump from float switch (rule) is much more reliable than the electronic versions. Dont know if this helps you but I Thought i would give my opinion since I have a lot of exp with rule pumps.
Click to expand...
Thank you. Much appreciated.
 
O

Old Person

Active Member
I tested the pump today in RO and it worked flawlessly. I could not make it fail….Itested it several times in Ro, then tap water…..It must be the sensor failing…..oh well…..now I am going to build a drainbox for my Bucket Co. drainbox, with two pumps paralell , two check valves , two seperate 3/4 lines back to the res and independent power supplies to each…..
 
S

Sevnday

Active Member
There is also this kit. I found it a bit pricey but it does come with trash screens, a collection res, and a backup pump.

www.thebucketcompany.com

Ez-Pz Runoff Pump Kit | The Bucket Company

The Ez-Pz Runoff Pump Kit eliminates the need of shop vacs with the help of (2) 1100 Gallon Per Hour (GPH) Auto Bilge Pumps. Designed to help growers not only capture their drainage but also to redirect it to one central drain or to recirculate it for Hydroponic growing applications. Click the...
www.thebucketcompany.com www.thebucketcompany.com


Some searching led me to this one that I'm going to try. Looks to accomplish same thing for 1/3rd the price.

 
O

Old Person

Active Member
That is exactly what I have except I got tired of replacing the cheap pumps that come with it and bought the "Rule" brand automatic 1100gpm.
I built a new collection box with 2 "Rule” automatic 1100 gpm pumps running 2 seperate discharge lines with check valves and seperate power supplies…….so far, so good.
 
Drop That Sound

Drop That Sound

Well-Known Member
I'm pretty sure Rule committed themselves to some green clean water act or something, and started designing the sensors to shut off to curb pollution in the waterways. Now they are specially made so they don't pump any fuel/oil or other contaminants. I guess they rather just have the whole boat sink? :confused:
 
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