Couple Fined For Refusing To Host Gay Wedding Shuts Down Venue

AlecTheGardener said:
People are not 'crying like a little bitch' when they stand up for their rights.

I cannot say that the way things ended was anything less then suboptimal though, a business shutting down is unfortunate.
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They cried about not getting a service performed that went against the beliefs of those they were asking to perform it. Did they think "standing up for their rights" would have gotten them the service they wanted? I doubt it. Hence "crying like a little bitch". They gained NOTHING by filing action. They didn't get their ceremony and they got the business to shut down. It's a lose, lose situation. I'm sure they feel vindicated though.
 
sheskunk said:
Or just cry like a little bitch.


Life ISN'T fair. Deal with it like a mature adult. The fact that you can't get married at your first desired place is NOT going to harm you in any way. They were more than willing to host the reception. Why couldn't the couple respect the beliefs of the business owner?
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Just because something "is" or "isn't," doesn't require that it remains that way.

Granted, life "isn't" fair. Okay, now that we've established the inherent unfairness of life in general... how are mature adults supposed to deal with that inherent unfairness?

Do we just say "fuck it" and leave it as it is, because it already is? Or, should we attempt to make it less unfair, or even go further and attempt to make it more fair?

Do we identify a problem and then decide "well, it exists, might as well allow it to remain unchanged!" ?
Or should we identify problems and then decide to attempt to determine the best way to correct them, and then attempt to implement the best solution that can be designed to best solve the problem?
 
sheskunk said:
They cried about not getting a service performed that went against the beliefs of those they were asking to perform it. Did they think "standing up for their rights" would have gotten them the service they wanted? I doubt it. Hence "crying like a little bitch". They gained NOTHING by filing action. They didn't get their ceremony and they got the business to shut down. It's a lose, lose situation. I'm sure they feel vindicated though.
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Likely.
 
AlecTheGardener said:
reasonevangelist said:
What happens when religion and civil rights conflict?
What happens when religious beliefs do not include allowing, or do include impinging, another's Civil rights?
Who is the ultimate authority: Religion or Government?
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Who has the bigger guns?
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Ah, you've poked a hole in my phrasing... i suppose i should have asked "what should happen?" instead of "what (does) happen(s)?"

So, instead of killing each other (or at least imposing conditions based on using that potential outcome as motivation to compel compliance), what should we do?

Instead of resorting to violence, how do we resolve the conflict between religious beliefs (discernibly fictional) and civil rights (beneficial but arbitrary)?
 
sheskunk said:
They gained NOTHING by filing action.
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besides recognition of their rights under the law.

sheskunk said:
They didn't get their ceremony and they got the business to shut down.
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the business chose to shut down rather than obey the law against discrimination.

the bigots got the business shut down, not the gay couple that wanted to give them money, fatass.

sheskunk said:
It's a lose, lose situation.
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this is a win for equal rights under the law, and a big fat loss for the bigots.

cry and complain some more though, sta-puft.
 
UncleBuck said:
filing a lawsuit in court against a business operating illegally is pretty much the definition of handling it like a mature adult.

whining about it on the internet like you're doing? not so much.
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The gays didn't get the wedding they wanted. Who's whining?
 
where are all the anti-illegal immigration folks to point out that ILLEGAL IS ILLEGAL! while they sit there smoking their cannabis?

is it possible that the same inner hatred and bigotry that leads to nativist sentiment is also present in the homophobic bigots?

:lol:
 
And now we should consider: what "is" or "isn't" law, is perhaps less of a priority than what "should" or "shouldn't" be law.

Instead of incessantly referencing what "is" or "isn't" law, we should be scrutinizing the laws, in order to ensure they are as correct (and fair!) as we can make them.

Even better: we should be striving to ensure no wrong law is ever made, and that no right law is ever made incorrectly.

I'm sure we can all cite at least one example of law being what it should Not be, and might have some insight on how to modify it to become more acceptable.
 
Everyone of you dope smoking/growing hippies is breaking the law. I expect a long line at the cop shop tomorrow while you all turn yourselves in. Hypocrites, the whole lot of you.
 
UncleBuck said:
where are all the anti-illegal immigration folks to point out that ILLEGAL IS ILLEGAL! while they sit there smoking their cannabis?

is it possible that the same inner hatred and bigotry that leads to nativist sentiment is also present in the homophobic bigots?

:lol:
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lol, exactly.

Too many people continually reference what "is" law, while disregarding the fact that certain laws shouldn't exist as they are in the first place.

I interpret and define "the law is the law" as an invalid argument, and "just doing my job" as an invalid excuse.

Combine the two, and it translates to: "just doing what i'm told, in order to continue receiving my paycheck/benefits, even when that needlessly ruins the lives of innocents."


Give the illegal immigrants a chance to naturalize; many of them will take it. Lots of people simply don't have access to "the right way" to do certain things.

edit: i still don't know what to do about "gay vs. religious business."

Maybe in order for a religious person to maintain a legal business, they have to agree to allow "sinners" to patronize it, *As long as civilly acceptable behavior is maintained throughout the process. If someone becomes unruly or dangerous while visiting a business, the owners and/or operators of that business are entitled to demand they depart.

edit2: i'm atheist and mostly anti-religion, but i still feel wrong about demanding the banning of religious practices... but i also don't feel quite right about demanding religious people accept the spectrum of alternative sexualities. I dislike the idea of allowing anyone to impose disturbance or discomfort (or any other kind of detriment) upon others, no matter how it may be delivered.
 
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reasonevangelist said:
lol, exactly.

Too many people continually reference what "is" law, while disregarding the fact that certain laws shouldn't exist as they are in the first place.

I interpret and define "the law is the law" as an invalid argument, and "just doing my job" as an invalid excuse.

Combine the two, and it translates to: "just doing what i'm told, in order to continue receiving my paycheck/benefits, even when that needlessly ruins the lives of innocents."


Give the illegal immigrants a chance to naturalize; many of them will take it. Lots of people simply don't have access to "the right way" to do certain things.

edit: i still don't know what to do about "gay vs. religious business."

Maybe in order for a religious person to maintain a legal business, they have to agree to allow "sinners" to patronize it, *As long as civilly acceptable behavior is maintained throughout the process. If someone becomes unruly or dangerous while visiting a business, the owners and/or operators of that business are entitled to demand they depart.

edit2: i'm atheist and mostly anti-religion, but i still feel wrong about demanding the banning of religious practices... but i also don't feel quite right about demanding religious people accept the spectrum of alternative sexualities. I dislike the idea of allowing anyone to impose disturbance or discomfort (or any other kind of detriment) upon others, no matter how it may be delivered.
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Maybe others can simply accept/respect the beliefs of their fellow man and not impose upon them. There is more than one place to hold a wedding. Pretty simple solution, don't you think?
 
sheskunk said:
Maybe others can simply accept/respect the beliefs of their fellow man and not impose upon them.
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so offering money to a wedding service business to have a wedding is "imposing upon them"?

that's as retarded as anything i've heard on this site.
 
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