crab meal vs. oyster shell

YesMamNoSir

Active Member
Hello to all!

I've been gathering a couple amendments for my new batch of soil to start cooking. I was going to order online some oyster shell flour until I ran across neptunes harvest crab shell meal at a local nursery. When I started researching I found that it is very similiar to oyster shell in that they are both basically calcium carbonate. My question is do they both serve the same purposes in soil. Does crab meal have the ph buffering abilities that oyster shells contain? Do oyster shells have high chitin content? Do they work together synergistically?
 

YesMamNoSir

Active Member
Do you know what it is about oyster shell that buffers PH? Is that quality also in crab meal?? The crab meal I'm looking at is 2-3-0.
 

hyroot

Well-Known Member
Do you know what it is about oyster shell that buffers PH? Is that quality also in crab meal?? The crab meal I'm looking at is 2-3-0.

neptune crab meal is good. i just got the down to earth crab meal because i got 1 pound more for same price. neptune - 4lbs - $10 dte - lbs - $10

has to do with bacteria interaction to the buffering.. other things buffer as well. coco, compost, worm castings, etc.... crab meal does not. Great for nutes and the chitin is a bacteria that fights off and inhibits pests.

i use crab meal, neem meal, kelp meal, rock dust and homemade castings and compost. and thats its.
 

CannaBare

Well-Known Member
neptune crab meal is good. i just got the down to earth crab meal because i got 1 pound more for same price. neptune - 4lbs - $10 dte - lbs - $10

has to do with bacteria interaction to the buffering.. other things buffer as well. coco, compost, worm castings, etc.... crab meal does not. Great for nutes and the chitin is a bacteria that fights off and inhibits pests.

i use crab meal, neem meal, kelp meal, rock dust and homemade castings and compost. and thats its.

Sorry for jacking but how much do you get your kelp meal for? I have two choices (Ascophyllum nodosum) for 99 and (a feed bag of kelp from MFA) for 45. Is the first really that much better? They say it is best for horticulture. If it really is best that is what I will get!

Thanks!
 

hyroot

Well-Known Member
Sorry for jacking but how much do you get your kelp meal for? I have two choices (Ascophyllum nodosum) for 99 and (a feed bag of kelp from MFA) for 45. Is the first really that much better? They say it is best for horticulture. If it really is best that is what I will get!

Thanks!
crab meal 5 lbs. $10
kelp meal 5 lbs. $15
neem seed meal 5 lbs. $15
rock dust. 20 lbs $10

the first kelp is Norwegian , North Atlantic deep sea kelp. Higher in every mineral.
 

YesMamNoSir

Active Member
I have two separate types of kelp. I bought the Dr. Earth brand kelp meal for 12.99 for 5lbs. When i was at a local organic grocery store i found some food grade kelp that is laminatas digitalis(sp?) and got a ziploc bag full for like 6$. I mix them both up into my worm food every feeding, and only use the Dr. Earth in my soil ammendments. This is my first grow only using soil amendments but I am very happy with the outcome and looking to get better.

 

zugbug16

Well-Known Member
hyroot where did you get that rock dust for 20 bucks.?? I checked amazon, walmart, ebay,the home depot every where xcept where u get urs. thanks man.
 

YesMamNoSir

Active Member
for rock dust use azomite as a search word. it has a really high mineral content (not sure kif its considered rock dust its mined from ancient sea bed in utah.

you can also call a stonemason or someone who makes tombstones and ask for their GRANITE shavings. usually for free or cheap. great in minerals and potassium.

you can also check out greensand and glacial rock dust which would serve these purposes and narrow your search slightly.
 

CannaBare

Well-Known Member
I'm careful to use azomite because I heard it contains a bunch of insolubles. But I did find glacial rock dust on amazon $37 for 25 pounds and a website for basalt (brixblend, whatever that means) for $46 for 40 pounds shipped. I bought those and I also utilize greensand.

Links.

rockdustlocal.com
http://www.amazon.com/Natures-Footprint-Glacial-amendment-25-Pound/dp/B008YSVPJA/ref=sr_1_1?s=lawn-garden&ie=UTF8&qid=1401737165&sr=1-1&keywords=glacial rock dust

edit: thanks for the granite shavings!
 

Pattahabi

Well-Known Member
neptune crab meal is good. i just got the down to earth crab meal because i got 1 pound more for same price. neptune - 4lbs - $10 dte - lbs - $10

has to do with bacteria interaction to the buffering.. other things buffer as well. coco, compost, worm castings, etc.... crab meal does not. Great for nutes and the chitin is a bacteria that fights off and inhibits pests.

i use crab meal, neem meal, kelp meal, rock dust and homemade castings and compost. and thats its.
This is also not true. Crab meal is absolutely a liming agent.

From Coot:
The main straight liming agents, Limestone, Calcite (aka Agricultural Lime), Oyster shell powder and Crab meal are sources for Calcium Carbonate (CaCO3). All are pure Calcium Carbonate with the exception of Limestone which can have a Mg level between 2 – 3% depending on the specific mine, country of origin, etc.

Full text in quote...
Okay – the first goals of wanting Calcium & Magnesium are good we’ll stipulate. Whether or not you need a mineral amendment to achieve that will be put aside.

Dolomite Lime is used in ‘the real world’ when a complete soil analysis has been done and now you have a complete overview of the element levels, CeC, etc. and it’s been established that lower levels exist for the long term on the Magnesium percentage. Even then, DL is applied maybe once every 4 or 5 years. The Magnesium in DL arrives as Magnesium Carbonate (MgCO3) but it’s a bit more complicated than that.

The reason that it is ‘slow acting’ is the molecular structure and if you were to hit even WikiPedia and looked at the molecular formula you can easily understand why this material is as slow acting as it is.

If in fact you need a Magnesium jolt then you’d be far better off using a mined mineral compound like Epsom Salts (Magnesium Sulfate) or Sul-Po-Mag (Sulphur, Potassium & Magnesium). The Magnesium in Epsom Salts is in its elemental form like Sul-Po-Mag.

The main straight liming agents, Limestone, Calcite (aka Agricultural Lime), Oyster shell powder and Crab meal are sources for Calcium Carbonate (CaCO3). All are pure Calcium Carbonate with the exception of Limestone which can have a Mg level between 2 – 3% depending on the specific mine, country of origin, etc.

When looking at the numbers on a Calcium Carbonate source you have to multiply the CaCO3 percentage by 0.375% and now you will have the elemental Calcium (Ca++) numbers.

Gypsum (Calcium Sulfate) is the preferred ‘liming’ agent in the PNW due to the acidic soils we deal with (the west side). That has to do with the adulteration of the clay platelets which no longer carry a pure negative charge (-) on the edges which bind along its edge with the center of adjacent clay particles and now you have clay compaction. All the Rototilling isn’t going to change that – ever.

So back to Dolomite Lime and why it’s used in commercial potting soils – certainly not used by professional nurseries other than for specific growing schedules like 3 – 5 years in containers. Even then, DL is part of a ‘liming mix’ that will include Gypsum (Calcium & Sulphur), Limestone or one of the shells meals. Bottom line is the DL is the least expensive because Calcium Carbonate is widely used in animal & human supplements – next time you’re in a store selling vitamins and supplements look at the label on the Calcium products – Calcium Carbonate.

Same for livestock and poultry. Calcium is a necessary part of their feed and DL isn’t part of that. DL has several industrial, manufacturing, etc. uses – it’s not the big deal in agriculture or horticulture like it is in the cannabis hobby gardening paradigm.

All of this assumes of course that the potting soil that you make is deficient in Calcium or Magnesium. It would be highly unlikely that given the compost and EWC you produce that you need additional Magnesium or Calcium. EWC are covered with a slime which is Calcium Carbonate from the worm’s digestive tract.

Calcium is not this elusive element that Goober wants you to believe it is

CC
 

hyroot

Well-Known Member
This is also not true. Crab meal is absolutely a liming agent.

From Coot:
The main straight liming agents, Limestone, Calcite (aka Agricultural Lime), Oyster shell powder and Crab meal are sources for Calcium Carbonate (CaCO3). All are pure Calcium Carbonate with the exception of Limestone which can have a Mg level between 2 – 3% depending on the specific mine, country of origin, etc.

Full text in quote...
I said crab meal is not a ph buffer. I never said it didn't have cal.
 

Pattahabi

Well-Known Member
when me n my buddy were checking ph of teas for the hell of it. The crab meal raised the ph in a tea. I don't care what you read. Real world environment is different. Just like lime does not regulate ph. Next time read better.
Take your anger out of your answer. Here's is my cite. I await yours...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liming_(soil)
Liming is the application of calcium- and magnesium-rich materials to soil in various forms, including marl, chalk, limestone, or hydrated lime. This neutralises soil acidity and increases activity of soil bacteria. However, oversupply may result in harm to plant life. Lime is a basic chemical, the effect of it makes the soil more basic thus making acidic soils neutral.

Now again, I'm just posting what I believe to be true. If you have documentation of otherwise I am certainly willing to listen.

Much respect,
P-
 

Pattahabi

Well-Known Member
first hand experince. Btw never quote wicki. Most unreliable source of info. Anyone can change the info. Alot of people do..
You and I aren't going to get along. Do me a favor, why don't you change the wiki page on liming if anyone can change the info? It's not quite that easy. If that's the best argument you can come up with for your position on liming, I rest my case.
 
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