Dept Of Homeland Security thinks right wing are terrorists.

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NoDrama

Well-Known Member
PDF file here of some of the most vile propaganda the government has printed. http://michellemalkin.cachefly.net/michellemalkin.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/hsa-rightwing-extremism-09-04-07.pdf

Basically the report implies that Right Wing extremists are terrorists and we all know terrorists do not have any rights. And its not JUST extremists.....

" Rightwing extremism in the United States can be broadly divided into those groups, movements, and adherents that are primarily hate-oriented (based on hatred of particular religious, racial or ethnic groups), and those that are mainly antigovernment, rejecting federal authority in favor of state or local authority, or rejecting government authority entirely. It may include groups and individuals that are dedicated to a single issue, such as opposition to abortion or immigration."

And that's not all, after putting your life on the line in the Middle East as a Military veteran you get to come back home and be treated like scum of the earth by the same government who had you killing other people, all because you might want to be a part of a right wing group.

Recruiting returning vets: “Rightwing extremists will attempt to recruit and radicalize returning veterans in order to exploit their skills and knowledge derived from military training and combat.”

Do you like Guns? How about the second Amendment? Well your a terrorist too!

“Heightened interest in legislation for tighter firearms...may be invigorating right wing extremist activity, specifically the white supremacist and militia movements.”

Man I shore do luvs me sum big gubbermint!!



links of other people's blogs who can write a bit better than me.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/04/14/homeland-security-report_n_186834.html

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=94803

http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2009/04/12/homeland-security-document-targets-most-conservatives-and-libertarians-in-the-country/
 
Dragline

Dragline

Well-Known Member
Honestly, im not really sure what your point is. Are you suggesting there isn't extreme right wing fringe capable of domestic terrorism? This isn't a new story. One of my NRA magazines did a story on this a year ago or so. (It's probably still in my bathroom)

Just to play devils advocate. Conservatives seem to be all about profiling muslim men at airports. I don't see the complaint in wanting to do that, but not profiling to prevent another Timothy McVeigh or Eric Rudolf from surfacing with deadly attacks because of their extreme right wing views.
 
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NoDrama

Well-Known Member
Dragline said:
Honestly, im not really sure what your point is. Are you suggesting there isn't extreme right wing fringe capable of domestic terrorism? This isn't a new story. One of my NRA magazines did a story on this a year ago or so. (It's probably still in my bathroom)
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My point is that they are classifying people who have nothing to do with radical right wing action as EXTREME RIGHT WING. Veterans, Gun Owners, Constitutionalists, Libertarians you name it.

Once they can label you as extreme, then they can classify you as a terrorist and with that classification you have NO RIGHTS AT ALL!!!! No Habeus Corpus, No right to an attorney, NOTHING!! They can throw you in a dark hole and let the rats nibble at your feet until you die from old age and there aint fuck all ANYONE can do about it. Heck they could just torture you everyday if they want, after all you won't even have the rights afforded to a guinea pig.

Just cause it was in a NRA magazine doesn't mean it isn't relevant.
 
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redivider

Well-Known Member
NoDrama said:
My point is that they are classifying people who have nothing to do with radical right wing action as EXTREME RIGHT WING. Veterans, Gun Owners, Constitutionalists, Libertarians you name it.

Once they can label you as extreme, then they can classify you as a terrorist and with that classification you have NO RIGHTS AT ALL!!!! No Habeus Corpus, No right to an attorney, NOTHING!! They can throw you in a dark hole and let the rats nibble at your feet until you die from old age and there aint fuck all ANYONE can do about it. Heck they could just torture you everyday if they want, after all you won't even have the rights afforded to a guinea pig.

Just cause it was in a NRA magazine doesn't mean it isn't relevant.
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WHoAH WHOAH WHOAAAH there buddy. the articles aren't propaganda, and the only one spreading mis-information here is you.

nobody is classifying veterans, gun owners, etc etc as terrorists. that's the first thing you have wrong.

What the article does is identify some of the possible recruiting techniques right wing extremists might use.

this includes appealing to returning veterans, gun touting meat-heads, and the like.

the one spreading the propaganda and lies is you. see, propaganda is not effective with just a publication. you need some sort of bias, fear and anxiety in there to make propaganda work. even these publications aren't spreading lies, or spins. they are just saying how the newest threat come from extremist right wingers. if they wouldn't be walking around with loaded semi-automatic rifles just because 'we still have rights', they wouldn't be considered such a threat. or if they weren't saying in meetings that obama hates the US, or that his liberal policies are going to screw this country, and you're kids are getting indoctrinated, or any of all the rest of the BS flying around the GOP's base. when a group starts promoting a message of hate you have to be worried, regardless of political views.


and if you don't want the 'gubbermint' to take away your rights just by 'suspecting' you of being a terrorist, that blame goes to W.Bush, for mislabling the Patriot Act, and feeding it to the sheep. and i know you're gonna say that Obama renewed it, but he doesn't want to give the right-wiing extremists more ammo.

it only takes one nut-job at one of these meetings to hear: "we told you obama was soft on terrorists. he let the patriot act expire, and now we're more exposed to terrorist attacks. What will he say to you when the plane carrying you're wife and child gets hijacked and crashed into a building?? Nothing, that's what, because he travels in a private plane full of security guards" - just ONE nutjob at one of these meetings might take it on himself to kill obama before his family dies. even though that's not what was told, that's what the crazie heard. then what??????

you don't want the government to be able to treat you like dirt, grab a poster, stand in front of the whitehouse or congress, sitting here spreading lies is helping nobody.
 
N

NoDrama

Well-Known Member
redivider said:
WHoAH WHOAH WHOAAAH there buddy. the articles aren't propaganda, and the only one spreading mis-information here is you.

nobody is classifying veterans, gun owners, etc etc as terrorists. that's the first thing you have wrong.
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You didn't read the report did you? I'm not talking about articles, I'm talking about the report put out by the US GOVERNMENT. Its the very first think I linked, I know its so hard to click, and probably even harder to read, but if you try really hard you might be able to do it.
 
iNVESTIGATE

iNVESTIGATE

Well-Known Member
Im with you NoDrama.

Its not just right wingers either... its environmentalists, gun owners, anti-NAFTA/SPP, returning veterans against the war, & protesters of any degree.


The MIAC report (entitled 'The Modern Militia Movement' ), Patriot Act ( 'Providing Appropriate Tools Required to Intercept and Obstruct Terrorism Act of 2001' ) , Patriot Act 2 (entitled 'Domestic Security Enhancement Act of 2003' ), or H.R. 1955 ( 'Homegrown Terrorism Prevention Act' ).

And im almost positive that there's others.

Pretty much all of these reports/amendments have, without care, essentially ruined the Magna Carta, Posse Comitatus, Habeas Corpus, and of course the Canadian charter of rights and freedoms and US Constitution. Especially considering the manner in which they were passed. Some of them at 3 in the morning w/ no representatives in congress/parliament and when there are they're given little time to read the sometimes thousands' of page reports.



Its all hegelian dialectic. Present a problem, wait for a reaction. Then offer a solution to the problem you created.
 
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redivider

Well-Known Member
i read it, and it doesn't say anything about anyone other than RIGHT WING EXTREMISTS. it talks about radicalization of right wing groups, talks about militia and gives an example of an incident in the 90's.

it basically gives you an idea of what the rationale behind the radicalization of the right wing movement, it's origin, and where it might lead.

it doesn't imply that the right wing movement is extremist, it actually identifies 'RIGHT WING EXTREMISTS' as the threat. no the 'RIGHT WING, MODERATES AND ALL'.

it doesn't even talk about current terrorist plots in place, and states in it's opening:

Threats from white supremacist and violent antigovernment groups
during 2009 have been largely rhetorical and have not indicated plans to carry
out violent acts. Nevertheless, the consequences of a prolonged economic
downturn—including real estate foreclosures, unemployment, and an inability
to obtain credit—could create a fertile recruiting environment for rightwing
extremists and even result in confrontations between such groups and
government authorities similar to those in the past.
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now. what I understand this report is saying is that the climate is ripe for right wing extremists to recruit more and more members, to grow in popularity, and for these groups to become more outgoing and confrontational, which could EVENTUALLY lead to a confrontation between the government and one of these groups.

it gives local law enforcement the knowledge needed as to what to look for in terms of domestic terrorism.

why did you claim this article labels the right as terrorists? it's not true. it's an overview of the radicalization of the right wing movement, it doesn't label the right as terrorist or not. it identifies that the conditions are right for this movement (right wing radical/extremist to flourish, and in the worst case, act

it clearly says there is no evidence that implies that there is an imminent threat to the US from extremist right wing groups.
 
medicineman

medicineman

New Member
I suppose teabaggers with guns pose no threat to Obama or the current government. They just like to parade around with them spouting hate and down with the government. Seems reasonable to me, LOL. The extreme right is a threat to the government and security. They are preaching extremely hateful rhetoric. It will only be a matter of time untill one of those nutbags goes postal. I hope it is one of you teabaggers on this site, some comeuppance is in order. Now, go and clean your guns. BTW, the reason I have guns is to protect me from right wing nutbags and gangers, both have about the same mentality.
 
undertheice

undertheice

Well-Known Member
the only truly frightening aspects of the dhs document is their overuse of the term "terrorism" and the determination that problems such as racism are inherently right wing. this is the same sort of rhetoric used by most government forces to criminalize counter-revolutionary groups as government attempts to alter the direction of a country. as our leaders try to force a radical shift to the left in a traditionally conservative country, identifying the right with the most damnable elements of our society is necessary if government is to influence the majority away from its conservative roots.

the fact that nazism and therefore neo-nazism sprung from a socialist (left wing) ideology is conveniently ignored, the countless communist oriented groups hoarding weapons are likewise ignored. that illegal immigration is a sore point for many americans regardless of their political leanings is denied by dhs as they lump those concerns into the racism melting pot and the entire idea that fears of global government is a strictly right wing fear is patently absurd. that they are so worried about the very soldiers they trained turning against our strengthening totalitarian regime shows just how desperate they are to find a domestic enemy to hang their failures on. conservatism is the enemy of the liberal policies of our newly energized radical left and the right must be demonized if this regime's schemes are to succeed. as liberalism continues to push our economy further and further down the drain and the market abandons our workers, there must be a scapegoat to blame for the failure that is inevitable in all welfare state policies.
 
medicineman

medicineman

New Member
undertheice said:
the only truly frightening aspects of the dhs document is their overuse of the term "terrorism" and the determination that problems such as racism are inherently right wing. this is the same sort of rhetoric used by most government forces to criminalize counter-revolutionary groups as government attempts to alter the direction of a country. as our leaders try to force a radical shift to the left in a traditionally conservative country, identifying the right with the most damnable elements of our society is necessary if government is to influence the majority away from its conservative roots.

the fact that nazism and therefore neo-nazism sprung from a socialist (left wing) ideology is conveniently ignored, the countless communist oriented groups hoarding weapons are likewise ignored. that illegal immigration is a sore point for many americans regardless of their political leanings is denied by dhs as they lump those concerns into the racism melting pot and the entire idea that fears of global government is a strictly right wing fear is patently absurd. that they are so worried about the very soldiers they trained turning against our strengthening totalitarian regime shows just how desperate they are to find a domestic enemy to hang their failures on. conservatism is the enemy of the liberal policies of our newly energized radical left and the right must be demonized if this regime's schemes are to succeed. as liberalism continues to push our economy further and further down the drain and the market abandons our workers, there must be a scapegoat to blame for the failure that is inevitable in all welfare state policies.
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Boy, we are surely polar opposites. All the hate you expressed against the left is basically how I feel about the right, not quite as hateful though, I just see them as the enemy of all social reform, the holdouts on Medical reform and anything that would actually help the middle class. They are for big business and the rich., I'm not.
 
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redivider

Well-Known Member
undertheice said:
the only truly frightening aspects of the dhs document is their overuse of the term "terrorism" and the determination that problems such as racism are inherently right wing. this is the same sort of rhetoric used by most government forces to criminalize counter-revolutionary groups as government attempts to alter the direction of a country. as our leaders try to force a radical shift to the left in a traditionally conservative country, identifying the right with the most damnable elements of our society is necessary if government is to influence the majority away from its conservative roots.

the fact that nazism and therefore neo-nazism sprung from a socialist (left wing) ideology is conveniently ignored, the countless communist oriented groups hoarding weapons are likewise ignored. that illegal immigration is a sore point for many americans regardless of their political leanings is denied by dhs as they lump those concerns into the racism melting pot and the entire idea that fears of global government is a strictly right wing fear is patently absurd. that they are so worried about the very soldiers they trained turning against our strengthening totalitarian regime shows just how desperate they are to find a domestic enemy to hang their failures on. conservatism is the enemy of the liberal policies of our newly energized radical left and the right must be demonized if this regime's schemes are to succeed. as liberalism continues to push our economy further and further down the drain and the market abandons our workers, there must be a scapegoat to blame for the failure that is inevitable in all welfare state policies.
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the report does not 'identify the right wing with the most damnable elements of society'. the report summarizes right wing extremist views, what drives them, in an effort to give local authorities tools to identify potentially violent groups. it clearly says that the often violent rhetoric used by more radical right wing groups is exactly that: rhetoric, and there is no evidence that they are planning to engage in, or are close to committing acts of terrorism. so there's no reason for you guyz to get touchy.

the government is not trying to criminalize 'counter-revolutionary groups' even though such a redundant misnomer is hard to top.

it's just a report that mentions the right wing radical movement as a possible source for domestic terrorism. it's not erroneous in it's conclusion either, since there have been instances of violent acts have occurred in the past, by people who have been affiliated with this movement.

it's not the first time right wing radicalization has been identified as a potential source of domestic terrorism. just because it happens under obama's watch it's labeled as propaganda. give me a break.....
 
undertheice

undertheice

Well-Known Member
medicineman said:
Boy, we are surely polar opposites. All the hate you expressed against the left is basically how I feel about the right, not quite as hateful though, I just see them as the enemy of all social reform, the holdouts on Medical reform and anything that would actually help the middle class. They are for big business and the rich., I'm not.
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though i realize it is a necessary part of vilifying the traditional and advancing the cause of totalitarianism, you really shouldn't mistake concern with hatred. the idea that conservatism is the domain of big business and the rich is belied by the overwhelming number of middle class citizens that identify with the ideals and common sense on which conservatism is based. where liberalism finds its enemies among the people themselves, conservatives realize that our most dangerous enemies are always those with the armed might of government behind them. where liberalism denies the necessity of competition and the importance of rewarding excellence, conservatism understand that equality is not a universal concept to be forced into every facet of our lives and that not all are destined for or capable of success. the reform liberals scream for is nothing short of larceny, the twisting of the robin hood fable to suit the greed of those who, for whatever reason, do not succeed.
 
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NoDrama

Well-Known Member
Read the scope of the report, its on page 2. It says

"This information is provided to federal, state, local and tribal anti-terrorism and law enforcement officials so that they may effectively deter, prevent, preempt or respond to TERRORIST attacks against the united states. Federal efforts to influence domestic public opinion must be conducted in an overt and transparent manner, clearly identifying United States government sponsorship."

If they thought that vets, gun owners, and libertarians and others were not a threat, why even include them in the report?
 
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redivider

Well-Known Member
NoDrama said:
...

If they thought that vets, gun owners, and libertarians and others were not a threat, why even include them in the report?
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because there are vets, gun owners and libertarians that belong to radical right wing groups. why don't you understand??
 
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NoDrama

Well-Known Member
redivider said:
because there are vets, gun owners and libertarians that belong to radical right wing groups. why don't you understand??
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So only vets , gun owners and libertarians can be right wing extremists? Why didn't they include people who wear sandwich costumes, or black jack dealers, or people who wear blue jeans? Or are those particular types of people immune to right wing terrorism?

When you start looking at your own citizens as the enemy you have gone too far IMO.
 
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redivider

Well-Known Member
you can thank the patriot act for the broad definition of terrorism many LEO's are starting to employ. under the cloak of 'terrorism' the bill of rights no longer applies, and everybody's the enemy.

this started a couple of years ago. remember this quote:

...If you're not with us, you're with the terrorists...
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i'm not defending it, but i don't see anything wrong or biased about the report you cited. it just states a possible threat (right wing extremists) and assesses their actual threat level in terms of the intel available (no threat at the moment, a lot of talk, no walk), which is actually a good thing, since we're talking about violence against 'the homeland'.....
 
abe23

abe23

Active Member
Wow, you guys are amazing....

If you replace the word "right-wing" with "muslim extremist", many of you are all for depriving people of their liberties, torture and all kinds of other shit, but when it comes to the crazies that share some of your politics, you're willing to look the other way. But the FBI releases a report about the dangers of veterans being vulnerable to violent right-wing extremism (remember timmy mcveigh, anyone??) and you all flip your shit...this, my friends, makes you the worst of hypocrites.

I for one happen to think that we are just as likely to see another oklahoma city as we are a 9/11. That doesn't mean I want to waterboard militia members, it just means that I think we should pay attention to both threats. I'm glad the folks at FBI are smarter than you lot.
 
Dragline

Dragline

Well-Known Member
undertheice said:
t

the fact that nazism and therefore neo-nazism sprung from a socialist (left wing) ideology is conveniently ignored,
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I wonder how many times Im gonna need to give this history lesson to the right wing of rollitup? Luckily there is copy and paste so i won't have to type it all out again.

Nazism was hardly socialist or "left wing". The S word in "National Socialist" was a complete misnomer. Hitler only touted support for workers while on his rise to power. All along he was privately gaining support of wealthy German businessmen and once in power actually abolished trade unions and the right to strike. The economy under Nazi Germany was a mix of aristocracy and capitalism. Private corporations were promised that those who keep prices low will be rewarded with lucrative government contracts. But that was the extent of government involvement in industry. Hitler actually despised both Socialism and Communism. His writings reflect this as he saw both as doctrines which would be used by Jews to take over the world. Nazism was simply a mix of Nationalism (a right wing trait), Militarism, and Racism gone to ultra extremes. Hitler could call himself and his party whatever he wanted. It didn't change what he actually did.
 
K

Keenly

Guest
ND, this document has been out since, oh id say march of last year


were you been man?
 
jeff f

jeff f

New Member
redivider said:
it's not the first time right wing radicalization has been identified as a potential source of domestic terrorism. just because it happens under obama's watch it's labeled as propaganda. give me a break.....
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you mean right wing terrorism like when janet reno blew up that building full of chidren down in waco? you talking bout that kinda right wing terrorist?

or maybe when they shot that lady holding a baby at ruby ridge?

or maybe when the kent state kids were shot?

are you talking about that sort of "right" wingers?
 
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