Diagnosis needed.. Pics Icluded.

A

Awology

Member
1st time grower here, need help on a diagnosis, my plants have not grown for about 2 weeks and seem to have been stunted and im wondering if they will be able to make a full recovery.

Im using Coco peat and perlite mix, and using the auto pot system, and the flora Grow Series and a nutrient.

The Stem on the plants is a bit purple which as lead me to believe it may have a mg deficiency however im just to unsure.
as also looks a bit over watered.

i have some Epsom salts but im unsure if im should apply them which is why i came here 1st.

Im also a little unsure on how much nutes a plant this size should be getting, i was opting with the 2nd stage in growth from seedling.

I have bought a Ph and EC meter and am now able to keep track of that, my Ph of the Auto pot is 6.8 and i want to drift that down to about 60 or 5.8 for some reason the Ph is raising however im still unsure why.

Im Also trying to work out my PPm as from my understanding i have a Eutech meter which means i have to take the reading in u/ms and times that by 0.64 to get a ppm reading can anyone confirm this?

sorry about all the questions and thanks in advance to anyone who can help in any way..

Its been over 5 weeks and im disappointed with the growth.

 
smokie927

smokie927

Active Member
Just because the stem is purple doesn't mean any deficiency,it can be caused from stress,overwatering,but could be deficiency. Ya,looks like you may have overwatered,this can stunt your plant very easily,don't water for at least a few days to maybe even a week. Don't do anything to it just let your medium dry out and your plant should start to grow,now after that,when you water test your run off for ph/ppm. I'm not sure about the conversion for the meter you have because I have Hanna,very easy to use meter,it's the best out right now. Don't overwater this can cause a lot of problems,burns,deficiencies,etc. Hope this helps. Stay up Oregon,The Chronic State.
 
Punk

Punk

Well-Known Member
No, this is not from overwatering,...you would have some curling, these leaves are holding themselves up just fine, so def not overwatering.

I think you have a severe nitrogen defic. A good thourough watering of some 20-20-20 soluble fertilizer should snap it back.
 
S

stoner84

Member
Punk said:
No, this is not from overwatering,...you would have some curling, these leaves are holding themselves up just fine, so def not overwatering.

I think you have a severe nitrogen defic. A good thourough watering of some 20-20-20 soluble fertilizer should snap it back.
Click to expand...
I agree, but I don't think I'd go balls to the wall till I was sure. Remember that you need to treat coco like a hydro system. I used to do a RTW with coco and unless you are pounding them with water its pretty tough to over water in the stuff. Also look at the back of Nutrient bottle and see what type of N is being used. If it says that most of the N is coming from Amonical Nitrogen than you might as well be pouring poison onto those plants. Amonical N must be broken down my microbes which are prevalent in SOIL NOT COCO before it can be used by the plant. If your bottle says Nitrate Nitrogen than your in the clear. The same products are sold in hydro and soil formulas many times.

First go to your nutrient manufactururs web site and find their feeding schedule (all the major hydro nute suppliers have them up). Then flush the medium with PH adjusted water and hit them 1/4 strength of veg nutes. Just remember that coco is a totally different beast than soil.
 
cylee89

cylee89

Well-Known Member
oh my that is really tiny for 5 weeks of growth.. nutes boost vegetative proliferation. give that babe some food man :)

:leaf:
 
A

Awology

Member
Thanks for the Replies guys i really appreciate it.

Where i am now is iv worked out the Ec Conversion after speaking to the guy at the shop and i believe for my Eutech Ph/Ec meter there is a conversion rate of 0.64..
And since also my meter measures in µS/cm.
which i believe 1000 µS/cm is Equal to an EC reading of 1.0 and a ppm value of 640ppm.

Im very new to this kind of thing and would love for someone to confirm im on the right track with the ppm Readings.

The bottled water im using has a value of
100 µS/cm and a Ph of 6.5..

The Nutrients im using are Flora Grow 3 part series, micro, Grow and Bloom, which are all from General Hydroponics, im also using another product of theirs called Diamond Nectar which is a fulvic Acid i believe.

Questions i have is should i be relying more on the bottom feed in the Auto pots im using with the Coco peat like somekind of passive system> meaning i just let it take water from the bottom and dont worry about watering it?

The other thing im concerned about is over nuting my plants and am not sure if to give them Quarter strength nutrient or to start giving them the suggested chart Reading for a about a month old plant?

Also should i bother or is it worth giving them a spray with some Epsom salts via spray to the leaves?

Thanks very much in advance. kiss-ass

Thanks very much in advance.
 
J.cun.Shallow

J.cun.Shallow

Active Member
I start my plants of at half the recomended dose it says on the nute bottle and build up to the full amount, I would give that plant a full dose but I think you should take it out the auto system and give it a feed from the top and let at least 30% runoff. that purple could be from the cold
 
A

Awology

Member
J.cun.Shallow said:
I start my plants of at half the recomended dose it says on the nute bottle and build up to the full amount, I would give that plant a full dose but I think you should take it out the auto system and give it a feed from the top and let at least 30% runoff. that purple could be from the cold
Click to expand...
i have been feeding from the top for the last few weeks, but am a bit confused as weather a top feed or a bottom feed is better for Coco peat? i mean it seems like passively might work well once there is a root system? but again i know nothing.

So you Reckon A full dosage of nutrients?
chart Reads for a plant one month old feed from the top and let it run off, i imagine what u mean by that is hold the pot at a angle while i water to allow more drainage? something i have not been doing in the past:dunce: iv just been allowing it to kinda auto flow out, but it seems my coco peat perlite mix can hold water for a long time as its always a bit moist.

i
 
J.cun.Shallow

J.cun.Shallow

Active Member
Awology said:
i have been feeding from the top for the last few weeks, but am a bit confused as weather a top feed or a bottom feed is better for Coco peat? i mean it seems like passively might work well once there is a root system? but again i know nothing.

So you Reckon A full dosage of nutrients?
chart Reads for a plant one month old feed from the top and let it run off, i imagine what u mean by that is hold the pot at a angle while i water to allow more drainage? something i have not been doing in the past:dunce: iv just been allowing it to kinda auto flow out, but it seems my coco peat perlite mix can hold water for a long time as its always a bit moist.

i
Click to expand...
I thought you were using a autopot. If you are then why are you watering from the top?

I have just found 6 autopots and was wondering i could use coco. I have done some research and think coco would be a good medium. you should'nt have to worry about having good root system first cuz the coco will always be wet. thats the point of the autopot.

I dont mean hold the pot at a angle I mean you should have about 30% runoff when you water from the top.

I water every three days no matter what, water, no, no, water, no, no.......

I think you should give a full dose of nutes it really does need N

How do you top up the autopot tank? when do you change the water in the tank?

there is some pics here of my coco grow

https://www.rollitup.org/grow-room-design-setup/309013-enough-light-rep-3.html
 
A

Awology

Member
J.cun.Shallow said:
I thought you were using a autopot. If you are then why are you watering from the top?

I have just found 6 autopots and was wondering i could use coco. I have done some research and think coco would be a good medium. you should'nt have to worry about having good root system first cuz the coco will always be wet. thats the point of the autopot.

I dont mean hold the pot at a angle I mean you should have about 30% runoff when you water from the top.

I water every three days no matter what, water, no, no, water, no, no.......

I think you should give a full dose of nutes it really does need N

How do you top up the autopot tank? when do you change the water in the tank?

there is some pics here of my coco grow

https://www.rollitup.org/grow-room-design-setup/309013-enough-light-rep-3.html
Click to expand...

iv been using a Auto pot system but iv been feeding from the top as i was under the impression that the plant needed a root system before it could benefit from the auto pot, as you seem to have explained it supposed to work more like a passive system and just suck the water up like a sponge rather than me top feeding?

Regarding 30% run off i would imagine that this means that if u pour a liter into a pot you want to have 300mils run off? is this right?

Im Trying to better understand the topping up of my Tank and the nutrient strength factor, what i have been doing is measuring 2liter and adding the amount of nutes in mls to the water, reason for this is the water im using is not cheap and is mineral water.

Iv just been feeding that to the plant and also filling the auto pot manually from the bottom but i have emptied the tray at the bottom a few times as i have been suspicious of the mixture i was using.

I seem to be better understanding what i should have been doing and where i went wrong it seems they must have been getting to much water the way iv been on them.

i am scared of over nuting them but iv made a 2liter mix of nutrient PH of 5.8, EC 0 .9 and PPm value of 580ppm, which i think seems right for the stage or growth im at looking at the general hydroponics feeding Chart.

using a conversion factor of 0.64.

it worked out to like 1.4ml of grow
0.6ml of micro
0.6ml of Bloom
and 1.5ml of Diamond nectar.

shall i just pour this over the root and around the stem?


Btw i checked your Grow out, very impressive i can only hope i have something like that one day : P
what nutes are you using?
 
J.cun.Shallow

J.cun.Shallow

Active Member
Awology said:
iv been using a Auto pot system but iv been feeding from the top as i was under the impression that the plant needed a root system before it could benefit from the auto pot, as you seem to have explained it supposed to work more like a passive system and just suck the water up like a sponge rather than me top feeding?

Regarding 30% run off i would imagine that this means that if u pour a liter into a pot you want to have 300mils run off? is this right?

Im Trying to better understand the topping up of my Tank and the nutrient strength factor, what i have been doing is measuring 2liter and adding the amount of nutes in mls to the water, reason for this is the water im using is not cheap and is mineral water.

Iv just been feeding that to the plant and also filling the auto pot manually from the bottom but i have emptied the tray at the bottom a few times as i have been suspicious of the mixture i was using.

I seem to be better understanding what i should have been doing and where i went wrong it seems they must have been getting to much water the way iv been on them.

i am scared of over nuting them but iv made a 2liter mix of nutrient PH of 5.8, EC 0 .9 and PPm value of 580ppm, which i think seems right for the stage or growth im at looking at the general hydroponics feeding Chart.

using a conversion factor of 0.64.

it worked out to like 1.4ml of grow
0.6ml of micro
0.6ml of Bloom
and 1.5ml of Diamond nectar.

shall i just pour this over the root and around the stem?


Btw i checked your Grow out, very impressive i can only hope i have something like that one day : P
what nutes are you using?
Click to expand...
I'm new to autopot myself and what you say sounds right. It works by absorbtion abit like the wick system as you said
so its probably fine to use without a establised root sysyem.

this is how I plan to top up my tank

my m/s will be kept at 0.5 that is the full recomended dose of my nutes which are house and garden cocos a+b and 5.8 ph

when I top up my tank I will adjust the ph and ms to the above said, and measure how much the tank is being topped up each time. when the tank has been topped up so much that it equals the volume of the tank I will the change the tank solution to a new one and flush the tubes and flush the plant to

so if its a 10 ltr tank and its been topped up with 10ltrs, then I will change the tank and flush the plant

your right with the 30% runoff thing, with a 11ltr pot I give it 4 litres

I reckon you should change yor tank to a new solution with ms 0.4 and ph 5.8 and flush yer plant from the top with the same

you said your using mineral water how does that effect the plant?

what nutes are you using are you suppose to be giving them bloom?

what light are you using
 
A

Awology

Member
J.cun.Shallow said:
I'm new to autopot myself and what you say sounds right. It works by absorbtion abit like the wick system as you said
so its probably fine to use without a establised root sysyem.

this is how I plan to top up my tank

my m/s will be kept at 0.5 that is the full recomended dose of my nutes which are house and garden cocos a+b and 5.8 ph

when I top up my tank I will adjust the ph and ms to the above said, and measure how much the tank is being topped up each time. when the tank has been topped up so much that it equals the volume of the tank I will the change the tank solution to a new one and flush the tubes and flush the plant to

so if its a 10 ltr tank and its been topped up with 10ltrs, then I will change the tank and flush the plant

your right with the 30% runoff thing, with a 11ltr pot I give it 4 litres

I reckon you should change yor tank to a new solution with ms 0.4 and ph 5.8 and flush yer plant from the top with the same

you said your using mineral water how does that effect the plant?

what nutes are you using are you suppose to be giving them bloom?

what light are you using
Click to expand...
right So you Reckon a EC of 0.5 ? which is what i heard is the Ec for seedlings is 0.3 and marijuana grows best up 1.8 and 2 Ec in flowing, this is something i read on the general hydroponics website.

maybe the stuff you are using is a bit stronger, i was using a A & B powder mix which i have abandoned as it was what got the plants sick.

General Hydroponics or GHE is the product im using, the 3 part series.

I thought according the there chart

http://www.genhydro.com/calculator/index.html

they say the Ppm for just after seedling should be 540ppm which is close to 1 EC or 0.9 Ec so its little confusing as how to use this stuff, id rather use to little than to much from what i can tell.

You where saying that i should top feed them before but u also reckon in this system they don't need that, so i find that a little confusing, iv emptied the auto pot to allow it to dry out a little, i was either gonna add the one or two liters of premix nutrient to the bottom of the auto pot and let it suck it up as it needs it, or i was thinking about another top feed as u suggested.

Why do i use minteral or bottled water?
as far as i know there is allot less junk in the water and less particles which give it a lower Ec, than normal water. the lower the Ec to begin with i hear is the best and i cant achieve this with tap water.

Im using CFL lights at the moment but might go to change them for flowering.

According to GHE im supposed to use the Micro the Grow and the bloom all together from the beginning, i did find that idea a llittle odd.

but they say to add certian amounts of each according to the stage or growth.
 
J.cun.Shallow

J.cun.Shallow

Active Member
everyones grow room is different someone using more light might need to use more nutrients they might be growing different strains which require more/less nutes than others etc for that reason I have never followed the charts, my plants tell me what they need and I try to listen to them as best I can

my ec metre will only tell me the ms of my solution so I work on that
with full nutreint recomendation (1.5ml per litre) my ec is 0.5 I said that I think you should change your tank to 0.4ms ph 5.8 and flush your plant with the same solution so that the nutes the tank will feed it will be the same as in medium.......get it, then all you have to do is sit back at watch it grow. I might be wrong about flushing the plant every tank change but untill I know better thats what I will do

your worreid about over fertilising your plant, but it is under fertilsed thats for sure, you need to give it more nutes, if it looks like it getting overfertilised then you can back off the nutes a little
 
A

Awology

Member
Ok so your Saying my current Ec rating of .09 and 580ppm is currently to high and i should lower it to 0.4 Ec
to achieve this i would have to water my nutrient down i would imagine until the correct EC is achieved.

Wont i be making even less nutrient available by doing this and would i not have had signs of over nuting by now
since in my last feed they got 330 ppm well i think it was that i didnt even have a Ec meter then or know what Ec was.

but it was approximately
0.4ml micro
0.4 ml Grow
0.4 ml Bloom
1.5ml diamond nectar
per liter. opposed to the

1.3ml grow
0.7ml micro
0.7ml micro
1.5ml diamond nectar/

im really confused as if i shall water this mixture down or run with it?
 
J.cun.Shallow

J.cun.Shallow

Active Member
I know nothing about EC-PPM-MS conversion I just work with MS, I think MS 0.4=PPM 1.4. you need to up your nutes and I suggested that you give the plant just under the full recomended dose, it should be fine, I had a bit of trouble with N myself this was because all the plants where getting the same dose, but the ones directly under the bulb started to yellow so I feed them full amount nutes
 
J.cun.Shallow

J.cun.Shallow

Active Member
I just looked at the chart you been using and it says that you needed to give the plant more PPM ages ago
Why do you keep quoting me as saying EC I said MS, which is different
should'nt you be using coco nutes?
 
A

Awology

Member
J.cun.Shallow said:
I just looked at the chart you been using and it says that you needed to give the plant more PPM ages ago
Why do you keep quoting me as saying EC I said MS, which is different
should'nt you be using coco nutes?
Click to expand...
As far as i know ms an Ec are the same.
1000Ums 1MS = 1 EC which is then converted into ppm at different conversions.

"To convert the electric conductivity of a water sample (mS/cm) into the approximate concentration of total dissolved solids (ppm), the mS/cm is multiplied by a conversion factor. The conversion factor depends on the chemical composition of the TDS and can very between 0.54 – 0.96. A value of 0.67 is commonly used as an approximation if the actual factor is not known [(TDS)ppm = Conductivity µS/cm x 0.67] "

my meter measures in µS/cm and i need to ppm so need to do these conversions since my eutech just reads out the µS/cm .

In my next mix there will be 563ppm and with a 880 µS/cm from what i can calculate using the 0.64 conversions.
From the chart this is where i should be i might have a little under to be safe?

As for the COCO nutes i dont know what nutes i should be using all i know is the guy at the shop said i should be using the General hydroponics or GHE flora grow and iv read others have grown with it, my store is also limited to the amount of nutes they have available.
Iv read that others have used GHE and had ok results, i just dont know about the use in coco peat?
 
J.cun.Shallow

J.cun.Shallow

Active Member
hold on your chart says seedling 440ppm, mildgrowth 1010ppm, growth 1080ppm, the plant is 5 weeks old. so why are you changing your tank to 563?
 
A

Awology

Member
J.cun.Shallow said:
hold on your chart says seedling 440ppm, mildgrowth 1010ppm, growth 1080ppm, the plant is 5 weeks old. so why are you changing your tank to 563?
Click to expand...
http://www.genhydro.com/calculator/index.html

Where are u getting those readings? i have put 1 liter into the calculator, simple program and set it in ml..

For me its Says..
330ppml for seedlings
540ppm for mild growth
830ppm for growth
850ppm for the Transition
800ppm bloom
500ppm ripen

I reckon im about in mild growth as its about 15cm tall. so on my workings thats about 540ppm, which is about 0.9 Ec for me.

Also iv just recently changed to these nutrients i was using a part A , B and C mix from the shop which came in powder form, i didn't trust it so iv changed to GHE
 
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