Do I really need to decarb if I'm making butter?

grapefruitmarmalade

grapefruitmarmalade

Well-Known Member
... subsequently using the butter to make brownies or possibly eating it raw with some bread?
Also how long should I let the butter simmer for? I've done this previously without decarb-ing but I've had to use about 4-5 grams of weed to get some effect, and I only let it simmer for aprox. 2 hours. I'm planning on using 1 maybe 2 grams this time around...
 
grapefruitmarmalade

grapefruitmarmalade

Well-Known Member
Alright, yeah, these are all basic instructions on how to make cannabutter. But there seems to be conflicting opinions around the web about whether you need to decarb or not before making the butter (letting it simmer for a while, etc). I've made butter before without it and it was fine. My biggest beef with decarb-ing is that I don't have an oven thermometer
 
Horsetooth

Horsetooth

Well-Known Member
I decarb because it allows everything to be soaked into the butter as active. Once the butter has been extracted there's really nothing left to decarb and temps probably wouldn't get high enough to decarb anyways with the butter mixed into brownies.

With all of the evidence why would you not decarb? Where are you reading and how old is the article that tells you to not decarb?
 
grapefruitmarmalade

grapefruitmarmalade

Well-Known Member
Horsetooth said:
I decarb because it allows everything to be soaked into the butter as active. Once the butter has been extracted there's really nothing left to decarb and temps probably wouldn't get high enough to decarb anyways with the butter mixed into brownies.

With all of the evidence why would you not decarb? Where are you reading and how old is the article that tells you to not decarb?
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youtube vid suggested I don't need to decarb if I'm making butter. Only applicable when making tinctures and oils. Also a different article was talking about tinctures and decarb (decarboxylation being the central focus) with no mention of cannabutter. This is where my confusion stems from. Anyway thanks for the response, I guess it makes a lot more sense now with temps and what not. I guess I'm gonna have to suck it up and get an oven thermometer.
 
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Debra Bishop

New Member
I have been unsure about decarboxylating prior to making cannabutter, then brownies. Is this just giving the bud too much heat too many times? Last batch of brownies I did decarb 10 g's of good bud, then simmered the material in 1 stick of butter/water, then added the entire amount of butter to a regular box of brownie mix. The amount I need to eat is about the size of a sugar cube. Very powerful. I only need 1 every 8 hours to get me thru the day. I'm not complaining, but would sure like to know if all three times it gets heated, am I degrading its potency?
 
grapefruitmarmalade

grapefruitmarmalade

Well-Known Member
Debra Bishop said:
I have been unsure about decarboxylating prior to making cannabutter, then brownies. Is this just giving the bud too much heat too many times? Last batch of brownies I did decarb 10 g's of good bud, then simmered the material in 1 stick of butter/water, then added the entire amount of butter to a regular box of brownie mix. The amount I need to eat is about the size of a sugar cube. Very powerful. I only need 1 every 8 hours to get me thru the day. I'm not complaining, but would sure like to know if all three times it gets heated, am I degrading its potency?
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Can't right up answer. But months later and several batches later I've found that making butter, and butter into brownies or cake or even submerging it into hot coffee, is a lot stronger than straight up eating the butter (I have done that). I prefer the latter because it's more subtle and I can work and and perform regular activities without the "creeping" effect. So I doubt you're decreasing potency by heating it up a couple of times. Again, this is just based off my observations
 
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Debra Bishop

New Member
grapefruitmarmalade said:
Can't right up answer. But months later and several batches later I've found that making butter, and butter into brownies or cake or even submerging it into hot coffee, is a lot stronger than straight up eating the butter (I have done that). I prefer the latter because it's more subtle and I can work and and perform regular activities without the "creeping" effect. So I doubt you're decreasing potency by heating it up a couple of times. Again, this is just based off my observations
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grapefruitmarmalade said:
Can't right up answer. But months later and several batches later I've found that making butter, and butter into brownies or cake or even submerging it into hot coffee, is a lot stronger than straight up eating the butter (I have done that). I prefer the latter because it's more subtle and I can work and and perform regular activities without the "creeping" effect. So I doubt you're decreasing potency by heating it up a couple of times. Again, this is just based off my observations
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Thanks so much for your input. It really helps!
 
Dan Drews

Dan Drews

Well-Known Member
HeatlessBBQ said:
Yes !!!!
It helps so much more!!!

Do it at 230*F - 240*F for 115 minutes in an air tight mason jar.
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Sorry to say but this is absolutely and completely wrong, it's far too long to decarb and you'll be breaking down and therefore losing THC. You'll also be risking a trip to the hospital to remove 240 degree broken glass from your body.

Yes you should decarb. Chop up your buds, put it on a baking sheet and into a 240 deg oven for 30 minutes.

You never want to heat up an air tight mason jar in the oven unless you want to hear it explode and you like scraping broken glass out of your oven, or removing it from your groin. It's not worth the risk.
 
Gquebed

Gquebed

Well-Known Member
No you dont need to. I made butter a few times without decarbing and it turned out great.

But then i tried decarbing and i found it to make better butter. It changed the high and seemed to make more consistent cookies...meaning some of the cookies i made without decarbing wouldnt do anything for me. I havent had that happen since i started decarbing...
 
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Debra Bishop

New Member
Thanks. Decarbing it is! I decarb in the oven, 240 30 mins. I also put a cover on the baking dish, thinking it'll keep in any THC vapors! (I may be wrong, just makes me feel better!)
 
Lucky Luke

Lucky Luke

Well-Known Member
Some science :

Results of Decarboxylation Experiment
The following charts show the results of the 30 minute and 60 minute decarboxylation experiments. Also included are the lab results from testing done prior to any artificial decarboxylation to establish a starting point. Note that because of the age of both the kief and the trim, decarboxylation had begun to take place to some degree naturally. This may not be your starting point, but should not affect the results of the experiment much.

Kief
Compound Before Decarb 30 Min Decarb 60 Min Decarb
THCA 24.5% 2.6% .1%
THC 3.8% 25.4% 25.5%
CBDA .6% .3% .3%
CBD 0% 1% .1%
CBN .4% 1% 1.4%
Moisture 0% 0% 0%
Total Cannabanoids 29.3% 30.3% 27.4%
Cannabis Trim
Compound Before Decarb 30 Min Decarb 60 Min Decarb
THCA 6.5% 2.9% .2%
THC .6% 4.8% 6.9%
CBDA .2% .2% .1%
CBD 0% 0% .1%
CBN 0% 0% 0%
Moisture 3.4% 4.5% 0%
Total Cannabanoids 7.3% 7.9% 7.3%
Testing provided by SC Labs

As you can see from the two charts, 30 minutes was not quite enough to completely decarboxylate either the kief or the trim. At 30 minutes the kief was about 90% decarboxylated but the trim was only about 60% decarboxylated. This difference is likely because the trim had a higher starting moisture content. After 60 minutes however, both keif and trim samples were close enough to 100% decarboxylation for my satisfaction.

So there you have it. 240° F for 60 minutes should be enough to decarboxylate any cannabis with a reasonably low moisture content. For material with higher moisture content, the time can be extended but the temperature should not be increased. If you are concerned about losing organic compounds, lower heat can be used but the time should be extended to compensate.


Extracted from http://www.marijuanagrowershq.com/decarboxylating-cannabis-turning-thca-into-thc/
 
skepler

skepler

Well-Known Member
Because one has so little control over the results of decarbing dry/partially dry material that may be partly decarbed anyway, I make my oil first and then decarb it. You can watch the decarbing, it is out-gassing CO2. Around 210°F it becomes visible and at 245°F it can form a nice foam top like a latte. Using 240-250°F as a maximum temperature, the decarbing is done by 25 minutes or sooner with material that was partly decarbed from the start. This allows much more control over the process and therefore more consistent results. As the bubbling slows a quick stir will reveal if more out-gassing is going on or not.
 
whitebb2727

whitebb2727

Well-Known Member
Dan Drews said:
Sorry to say but this is absolutely and completely wrong, it's far too long to decarb and you'll be breaking down and therefore losing THC. You'll also be risking a trip to the hospital to remove 240 degree broken glass from your body.

Yes you should decarb. Chop up your buds, put it on a baking sheet and into a 240 deg oven for 30 minutes.

You never want to heat up an air tight mason jar in the oven unless you want to hear it explode and you like scraping broken glass out of your oven, or removing it from your groin. It's not worth the risk.
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Dude I put mason jars in pressure canners. I've used the jars in the oven to. Explain how the jar woulf explode in the oven. It just needs water.
 
Dan Drews

Dan Drews

Well-Known Member
Lucky Luke said:
Some science :

Results of Decarboxylation Experiment
The following charts show the results of the 30 minute and 60 minute decarboxylation experiments. Also included are the lab results from testing done prior to any artificial decarboxylation to establish a starting point. Note that because of the age of both the kief and the trim, decarboxylation had begun to take place to some degree naturally. This may not be your starting point, but should not affect the results of the experiment much.

Kief
Compound Before Decarb 30 Min Decarb 60 Min Decarb
THCA 24.5% 2.6% .1%
THC 3.8% 25.4% 25.5%
CBDA .6% .3% .3%
CBD 0% 1% .1%
CBN .4% 1% 1.4%
Moisture 0% 0% 0%
Total Cannabanoids 29.3% 30.3% 27.4%
Cannabis Trim
Compound Before Decarb 30 Min Decarb 60 Min Decarb
THCA 6.5% 2.9% .2%
THC .6% 4.8% 6.9%
CBDA .2% .2% .1%
CBD 0% 0% .1%
CBN 0% 0% 0%
Moisture 3.4% 4.5% 0%
Total Cannabanoids 7.3% 7.9% 7.3%
Testing provided by SC Labs

As you can see from the two charts, 30 minutes was not quite enough to completely decarboxylate either the kief or the trim. At 30 minutes the kief was about 90% decarboxylated but the trim was only about 60% decarboxylated. This difference is likely because the trim had a higher starting moisture content. After 60 minutes however, both keif and trim samples were close enough to 100% decarboxylation for my satisfaction.

So there you have it. 240° F for 60 minutes should be enough to decarboxylate any cannabis with a reasonably low moisture content. For material with higher moisture content, the time can be extended but the temperature should not be increased. If you are concerned about losing organic compounds, lower heat can be used but the time should be extended to compensate.


Extracted from http://www.marijuanagrowershq.com/decarboxylating-cannabis-turning-thca-into-thc/
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Remember decarbing for tinctures, which of course will NOT be heated again, will be different than decarbing for edibles that will be heated again. If you put fully decarbed leaf or kief in brownies for example, you risk breaking down THC during the brownie cooking process.

IMHO - decarb in the oven 50 - 60% of the way, then additional decarb can happen during the cooking process without breaking down THC.
 
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