Does freewill exist?

Does freewill exist?

  • Total voters
    81
KoSmIcTRaveLer said:
If everybody were to refuse to give me a dog, I could not choose to get one or not. If I had no way to, then that would be that.
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Not realistic. In the context of everyday life, Rob Roy is correct. Any one can get a dog and if you can’t afford one, look in the want ads and plenty of people give away puppies for free all the time.If there’s a will, there’s a way.
 
Obepawn said:
Not realistic. In the context of everyday life, Rob Roy is correct. Any one can get a dog and if you can’t afford one, look in the want ads and plenty of people give away puppies for free all the time.If there’s a will, there’s a way.
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Dogs are people. lol
 
Im in a dream that I can't control. So free will is non existent. Until I decide to kill myself. Wich then I will know the true meaning of freewill. But then it will be too late.
 
hellmutt bones said:
Im in a dream that I can't control. So free will is non existent. Until I decide to kill myself. Wich then I will know the true meaning of freewill. But then it will be too late.
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Free will requires conscious thought and reasoning. If you are sleeping, you are not conscious and therefore can’t reason.
 
Obepawn said:
Free will requires conscious thought and reasoning. If you are sleeping, you are not conscious and therefore can’t reason.
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I beg to differ on that there are many dreams where yes I can reason and it's almost real. I can even wake myself up if I wanted to. But I wake up to another dream wich somehow some call it real life.
 
Way i look at it, is free will does exist. Imo free will is the decision an individual makes before an action. Nothing / nobody else can rightly know for sure what the decision may be, until there is an action.
 
Rob Roy said:
When you make the choice not to have free will, you are exercising free will to
exorcise free will. Spooky huh?
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Yes but then I would not have freewill. And that seems better to me. Anybody else? Like I hope there is no such thing as freewill because that would be boring to me.. to be able to choose to be able to choose. lol wow. So lets say freewill exists. What would that mean? And what would be the difference? This whole concept is very strange to me but still very interesting at the same time. I want to get to the bottom of it but it just seems bottomless to me. Like there is no point to having freewill or not having it. It all just seems pointless. Everything...
 
KoSmIcTRaveLer said:
Yes but then I would not have freewill. And that seems better to me. Anybody else? Like I hope there is no such thing as freewill because that would be boring to me.. to be able to choose to be able to choose. lol wow. So lets say freewill exists. What would that mean? And what would be the difference? This whole concept is very strange to me but still very interesting at the same time. I want to get to the bottom of it but it just seems bottomless to me. Like there is no point to having freewill or not having it. It all just seems pointless. Everything...
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But when you exercise the choice not to use free will, by continually staying out of a free will situation, you are continually choosing to do so, hence you would still be exercising free will.

Free wills existence means the ability to make choices, but not necessarily the ability to alter every outcome as you'd like.

For instance you could decide to get up off the couch after smoking 12 consecutive bong hits and raid the refrigerator for something delicious, only to find somebody else got their first and the delicious thing has been eaten.
 
Rob Roy said:
But when you exercise the choice not to use free will, by continually staying out of a free will situation, you are continually choosing to do so, hence you would still be exercising free will.

Free wills existence means the ability to make choices, but not necessarily the ability to alter every outcome as you'd like.

For instance you could decide to get up off the couch after smoking 12 consecutive bong hits and raid the refrigerator for something delicious, only to find somebody else got their first and the delicious thing has been eaten.
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So would that constitute people (me) "having" free will, or "being" freewill? The latter seems politically correct, to me. It does not make to me sense that I would "own" anything, including freewill.... Anyways, I have a question. Are either true, that I have all of the freewill, or that I have a freewill? Because when I stop and think about me having awareness and having freewill, I think that it sounds completely untrue. And looks that way too...
 
KoSmIcTRaveLer said:
So would that constitute people (me) "having" free will, or "being" freewill? The latter seems politically correct, to me. It does not make to me sense that I would "own" anything, including freewill.... Anyways, I have a question. Are either true, that I have all of the freewill, or that I have a freewill? Because when I stop and think about me having awareness and having freewill, I think that it sounds completely untrue. And looks that way too...
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So if I would to say that 2+2=5, how could I be proved wrong? I mean how could you prove to me that I am wrong, if I were to choose to not let it be proved to me?
 
KoSmIcTRaveLer said:
So if I would to say that 2+2=5, how could I be proved wrong? I mean how could you prove to me that I am wrong, if I were to choose to not let it be proved to me?
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You and 4 friends are out having some beers at a local spot, "The Free Will Tavern". One friend offers to go up to the bar and come back with beers for the gang, but you get to decide what they'll be.

"Let's see, there's 5 of us here", you say, "maybe we'll go with two dark beers and two lite beers, that way we'll each get one". Upon the return of the beer fetching friend, he hands Joe and Harry each a dark beer. Tom gets one lite beer and Ted, the beer fetcher guy keeps the other lite beer for him. You, get nothing. You have just learned that 2+2 does not equal 5.
 
KoSmIcTRaveLer said:
So would that constitute people (me) "having" free will, or "being" freewill? The latter seems politically correct, to me. It does not make to me sense that I would "own" anything, including freewill.... Anyways, I have a question. Are either true, that I have all of the freewill, or that I have a freewill? Because when I stop and think about me having awareness and having freewill, I think that it sounds completely untrue. And looks that way too...
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I'm not sure what you mean, when you say "all of the free will". But I'm going with no person has all of the free will, (for now).

I think you do have a free will. For instance, you could decide to reply to this post or not, each response is an exercise of free will.
 
Rob Roy said:
I'm not sure what you mean, when you say "all of the free will". But I'm going with no person has all of the free will, (for now).

I think you do have a free will. For instance, you could decide to reply to this post or not, each response is an exercise of free will.
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Thats where I think different. I truly believe that I have no choice. And that all that there will be, is inevitable. I cannot imagine a future that is unpredictable and not determined to be an exact order of events. And it makes sense to me, just like how 1+1=2 makes sense to me. And by the way, I am not saying that I am in anyway okay with the way I think, but rather astonished at my assumed understanding. Lastly, I think it could totally be hypothetically correct that the future is not "set in stone". And that the future is yet to be determined. I always thought that everything happening now was always destined to happen by some supernatural unconscious force.
 
KoSmIcTRaveLer said:
Thats where I think different. I truly believe that I have no choice. And that all that there will be, is inevitable. I cannot imagine a future that is unpredictable and not determined to be an exact order of events. And it makes sense to me, just like how 1+1=2 makes sense to me. And by the way, I am not saying that I am in anyway okay with the way I think, but rather astonished at my assumed understanding. Lastly, I think it could totally be hypothetically correct that the future is not "set in stone". And that the future is yet to be determined. I always thought that everything happening now was always destined to happen by some supernatural unconscious force.
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I bet you wish you had gotten a beer though.
 
Had a three day conversation about this topic once. We were all suffering from shock trauma and needed to work through our grief. At that time we felt the answer was no we do not ultimately have free will, because :
  1. Everything is cause and effect
  2. Every instance of our experienced reality is cumulative
  3. Reactions, whether mental or physical, are determined by automatic references to prior experiences and information held
  4. Actions are derived from thoughts, thoughts arrive from and are predetermined by prior experiences
  5. If thoughts and actions are predetermined, then you have no choice
  6. If you don't have a choice, you are not to blame
  7. If you don't have a choice and are not to blame, then we can forgive the writers for killing off Carl in Season 8 of The Walking Dead.
 
MedicinalMyA$$ said:
Had a three day conversation about this topic once. We were all suffering from shock trauma and needed to work through our grief. At that time we felt the answer was no we do not ultimately have free will, because :
  1. Everything is cause and effect
  2. Every instance of our experienced reality is cumulative
  3. Reactions, whether mental or physical, are determined by automatic references to prior experiences and information held
  4. Actions are derived from thoughts, thoughts arrive from and are predetermined by prior experiences
  5. If thoughts and actions are predetermined, then you have no choice
  6. If you don't have a choice, you are not to blame
  7. If you don't have a choice and are not to blame, then we can forgive the writers for killing off Carl in Season 8 of The Walking Dead.
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1. the effect sill vary from person to person
2. different people react differently, so the same experience can have vastly different effects on those involved. what may crush some, only makes others more determined
3. not everyone has the same reaction to the same experience, resulting in a myriad of choices being made. if everything were predetermined, we'd all have the same reactions to the same stimuli
4. who says thoughts are predetermined? i may...probably will, react very differently than most people in most situations, if thoughts are predetermined, we'd all be walking in unison, which is definitely not the case
5. you always have a choice. do you take the high road or the low road? that's an ethical question, which wouldn't even exist if our thought were predetermined
6.thats a huge cop out, you are ALWAYS responsible for your actions, no mitigating circumstances. that's why there are "tough decisions"...
7. i don't watch walking dead, i'll have to take your word on that one
 
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