Does sugar kill the mix

Fpj ferments and em1 all use masses of sugar to stabilize them

reading the jadam book it states that sugar kills fungi microorganisms and makes them acidic and all other bits and says make sure your ferments do not have sugar and instead only leaf moulds

the knf books and notill ferments all says mix equal sugar to stabilize the mix and keep them alive as I have

googles if mollasses kills fungi and it says yes it does it’s used to control it

then yoghurt says

Even if a store-bought yogurt claims to contain lots of probiotic bacteria, those added sugars will likely cancel those benefits out. The negative effects from added sugar will likely outweigh any probiotic benefits you may receive from the sweetened yogurt.

so are we wrongfully killing our microbes fermenting with sugar or preserving them like we thought jadam explains the sugar squeezes the water out of all the microbes killing them through osmosis like slugs and salt

so when I make lacto syrum from milk and mix to sugar am I killing them ?
the em microbe em1 Ibaught at shop was clear like water almost Defo no sugar mix ??

Molasses feeds beneficial soil microbes, resulting in a rapid increase in their numbers.

headfucking me allover here what statement do I believe if I believe jadam with all its wow I love then I need to change what I know and love from knf organic lol dafuq
Do I do I ? Wtf
Until u bits post my test will be as follows
Jadam nettle leaf mould water
Fpj nettle sugar em1

jadam says 1 week at 1.100 but 6 month 1.1000 so tests need to be conducted at end also

fpj 1week strain and use 30ml a liter

will pot feed 5 veg plants x5 veg plants
Tomato /tomato / cucumber / beans /beans

But hope u guys get in here n comment

It'll be interesting to learn either way, my question is... Where's the weed, man?

Johiem said:

It'll be interesting to learn either way, my question is... Where's the weed, man?

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Ok sure and 2 cuts from a plant here I got some Bruce banner cuts so in it for the win lol

I used mollases and tnc bactorr it has bacteria different types as days go by mix becomes darker showing more life

amneziaHaze said:

I used mollases and tnc bactorr it has bacteria different types as days go by mix becomes darker showing more life

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All the blood from them exploding as the days pass
Haha only joking I use molasses with my microbes currently so this is crazy funny how knf and jadam are seen almost as 1 but then have so different principals on sugar

That doesn’t make much sense to me; I add molasses every time I make a tea. There has to be a frikkin gazillion microbes in the vermicompost straight outta da worm bin. No way a little sugar hurts them. The aloe FPJ I give my plants seems to make them very happy; I’m not going to stop making/giving it to plants unless I have some kind of verifiable data that I trust in from of me. I could see how limiting a humans sugar intake could help our own internal processes but putting it into the soil doesn’t appear to be detrimental in any way.

Richard Drysift said:

That doesn’t make much sense to me; I add molasses every time I make a tea. There has to be a frikkin gazillion microbes in the vermicompost straight outta da worm bin. No way a little sugar hurts them. The aloe FPJ I give my plants seems to make them very happy; I’m not going to stop making/giving it to plants unless I have some kind of verifiable data that I trust in from of me. I could see how limiting a humans sugar intake could help our own internal processes but putting it into the soil doesn’t appear to be detrimental in any way.

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I read every Richard drysift post I see go every time.

Richard Drysift said:

That doesn’t make much sense to me; I add molasses every time I make a tea. There has to be a frikkin gazillion microbes in the vermicompost straight outta da worm bin. No way a little sugar hurts them. The aloe FPJ I give my plants seems to make them very happy; I’m not going to stop making/giving it to plants unless I have some kind of verifiable data that I trust in from of me. I could see how limiting a humans sugar intake could help our own internal processes but putting it into the soil doesn’t appear to be detrimental in any way.

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Glad to have your input bro, now I’m not having ago I want to research Ivhave a need to know and no way am I challenging you just want to debate a few questions instead of ignoring them cause the masses said to that shit got me inalot of fertiliser problems to begin with

same I’ve always been the same use sugar to stabilize them and keep them preserved but making Jam and shit I found all this stuff and ignored until I saw jadam and it looked famailliar what they said about sugar so went had a look
All the jam sites talk about preserving jam too preserving them so no bacteria grows . I have wonderd how do I know I have bacteria levels high without testing everyone says to assume there there know there there cause you was told they are , never been comfortable with that as I like to see with my eyes .

so jams preserving..so are we using sugar in higher volume to that of jams at times …
Have we got lost in Chinese whispers and comfortable with our simple chooses?

fermentation can be reliant on all enzymes to digest the matter alone the bacteria can be wiped out with heat as some do and enzymes added like Papin a meat tenderizerto do the work
Then ferments talked about in jadam ferment using leaf mould which is heaving in bacteria and moulds can can actively see them and smell them growing on the surface etc.

upon adding sugar in my coffee seems to stop my mushrooms from growing for months normally they take days I didn’t mean to add sugar lol and I didn’t get contaminated bags where as I normally loose a few to trichaderma

what I am getting at here is we add sugar cause we’re preserving it but other siteations to work on pre and probiotics which utilize lacto basc etc as their main research tell how it kills them and fiber is needed instead

this would explain on a fish ferment vid I was trying to see why this little Asian dude added bran instead of sugar to his ferment he’s the only one I seen online doing it without sugar and to be honest he don’t use the internet to get filled with mix concepts he was handed it down by family and we tried to

We gain knowledge here via seeing another grower do good and assume it’s what he did by a guess and copy then others do too most without knowing until we are all doing the same thing without a 2nd guess cause he did and she did.
I have baught 2 em products in shop now and both are a clear non sugary liquid apparently with millions inside and only stores 6mo before there dead inside.
made me question my brown molasses’s filled em and wonder if it was the sugar carb watered down that’s feeding microbes as it wasn’t enough to harm and my em spoon I brewe and add is actually dead ?
It says pathergenic bac rely on sugar so really we breed bad ones ? The good we want breed off fibre
Now we add sugar cap to ferments to stop bacteria
We add sugar to Jam cause nothing will grow on it
Why is my em products baught not got sugar
Why does jadam state it kills it also
Why do the probiotic company’s use fibre with lac to not sugar in my pills I have a fibre kill with enzymes to feed them and a probiotic with all cultures separate
I’m sugar free 5years to support my micro biome and it cured autoimmune that I was told I was fucked with but raw milk lacto and probiotics saved me drs can’t believe it lol so I question it in my plants with the organic rule of “if il put it in my mouth it can go in my soil “

I have more lol but il wait cause I can’t see what I’ve done on the phone it’s skipping all over so forgive my typing this thing isn’t liking it and my pc died other day ffs









At concentrations of a few percent, sugar doesn’t kill probiotics or any other bacteria and at that level it will feed a lot of microorganisms. However, sugar at high concentrations acts as a preservative because it osmotically “sucks” the moisture out of cells. That is why jams are called “preserves”.

That’s from a probiotic professor of 18 years .
And
The healthy (probiotic) bacteria thrive on fibers as a food source, yet the pathogenic bacteria rely on sugar and refined carbohydrates for food.19 Apr 2019

Making jams and keifir website

Bacteria evolved in environments where the concentration of sugars and salts is the same as or lower than those inside the cell.

High sugar concentrations cause the bacterium to lose water by osmosis and it doesn’t have any cellular machinery to pump it back in against the osmotic gradient. Without enough water, the bacteria can’t grow or divide.Mould is more tolerant though and can grow on some jams.
Herein, how does sugar prevent bacterial growth?

There are several ways in which salt and sugar inhibit microbial growth. The most notable is simple osmosis, or dehydration. This has the effect of drawing available water from within the food to the outside and inserting salt or sugar molecules into the food interior.

Also Know, does bacteria need sugar to grow? Do not be, because most bacteria are actually good for us. To fuel growth and division, bacteria need to find their favorite food and be able to process (digest) it correctly. Like humans love to eat candies, one of the favorite food choices of bacteria is the simple sugar called glucose.

Also asked, what does sugar do to bacteria?

The sugar technique used by Collins works by waking the bacteria up and making them eat. Sugar brings the bacteria back to life and allows them to take up antibiotics, which in turn, kill the bacteria.

Sugar helps preserve the color, texture and flavor of the food. The sugar in jams and jellies helps the gel to form, and increases the flavor. When large amounts of sugar are used in a recipe, the sugar also acts as a preservative by inhibiting microbial activity; thus, recipes should not be modified or adapted.


I was learning about nutrients like sulphur it’s only released when the bacteria boom eats sulphur they then explode and die and then the fungi can feed off them to get the sulphur released to plants the reason elemental sulphur takes so long to work is you have to wait for the bacteria boom to go mad then die to get their benefit and while this happens ph rises slightly fungal then drop ph as they die off …so are we just getting the benefit of dead microbes that digested the milk oils And glucoses in milk ?

the probiotic site says at more then a few % they die and the em recipie says to mix 50%

I’ve never used the molasses with my water or grows but have been very interested in its effects or to see them in detail. sugar is natural in some applications to plants but doesn’t occur naturally in all areas of the world so it may not be beneficial to all forms of micro organisms and beneficial bacteria in the soil. Very interested to see this little experiment

They are also called L. acidophilus. They make lactic acid by breaking down carbohydrates. This is mainly done by breaking down the sugar lactose in milk.

So they break down sugar lactose the ose in lactose is sugar we already provided this to get them and create lactic acid which we wantbut lactic acid needs fibre is that we’re we get they need sugar from ? Which we don’t provide we try shove them full of sugar which is said to kill them

“””””
Lactobacilli ferment dietary fibers which are otherwise unable to be digested or absorbed by the gut. Therefore, it is important to eat a diet rich in various types of dietary fiber to encourage diversity and the growth of lactic acid bacteria.

It’s not difficult to implement a high fiber diet. Whole foods like fruit and vegetables are widely available in supermarkets. Plus, fermented dairy products like yoghurt are just as easy to obtain.
Diets like the Mediterranean diet are also good for increasing your fiber intake and subsequently your Lactobacillus levels, not least because it’s high in fiber, but also because of low meat intake. It’s full of prebiotics, and probiotic, fermented foods with strains of Lactobacillus.

Your gut bacteria, including Lactobacillus, breaks down most of the polyphenols present in our foods, which also makes them prebiotics. Polyphenols are found naturally in foods like fruits, vegetables, and cereals.”””””

nowhere says they need sugar but does say they need fibre toincrease Lactic acid
But also need to reduce sugar to make em grow….

First knf I find no sugar the brown one is a kombucha and it’s lab as he labelled it looks like the shop baught no sugar ones I got

. Within 2 - 5 days, the feed will begin to bubble slightly as the LABs will begin to put off carbon dioxide, and you should start to smell a slightly sour smell similar to pickles, sauerkraut or yogurt. This is the lactic acid that the LABs are beginning to produce

thisbis when added to knf chicken feed ferment the labs produce off the fibre and patients in the grain no sugar

and on fpj
Adding a live lactic culture to plant matter and sugar crystals that aren’t dissolved means there dissolved as needed through the process to keep the lab aggressive it’s not mixed in liquid

UPDATE} 4/16: after almost a year, the FPJ is still looking good. I used a lot of sugar. If in the recipe you use only enough brown sugar to extract the juices, then once you’ve poured off the juice you should add more brown sugar to preserve it, especially if you live in a hot, humid place.

Note this addition of sugar is after fermentation process and your preserving enzymes and npks which was the aim not bacteria and fungi and now it’s added at a dielute ratio of 30ml per litre which as previously quoted would deliver the “weak” sugar that will activate bacterias and not kill them
After adding fpj I found some saying you can add some lab too at this stage so that is added extra to recolinate the water going in I guess

Sugar used to preserve kills all active bacterias and is used in similar practise but more over preserving nutrients from spoiling and not for protecting bacteria



great white shark bacterias are a powder with no sugar and liquid orca isn’t either yet both are sold as top lead
Recharge used by notill is only 6% mollasses

hmmmm more I read the more I’m convincing myself lab doesn’t need mollasses adding just fridge it and use it to ferment

Did you know if you pour mollasses water into fire ants they will fuck the best off and move gardens
Also spray feet in mollasses and you won’t get stung on garden by ants and many other insects
Strangely enough aphids and many bugs are killed by sugar too not just humans and gut biomes after all gut biome is made up of bacteria found in nature it’s not a magical other presence
Aphid for example doesn’t have a gut cabable of absorbing sugar so when it does it explodes from a blockage and a leak they get that’s when you find dead aphids on your plants you k ow that your brix levels are off the chart lol
Used in low doses it’s ok but high dose kills insects and all sorts of living things so in lab at 50% I can see it being a problem that many people have wrongfully learnt then blogged about and when there gardens beautiful it’s hard not to jump on

Anyone up for licking their bottle of neptunes harvest haha
They say enzymes digested using natural enzymes in the fish as well as papin or papaya pineapple for enzymes ,they break down meats
Then they stabilise this using phosphoric acid Which I’ve learnt does stabilise and keep bacteria alive without killing them …dropping ph to 4 keeps them inactive and in suspension as done in medical practise don’t see hospital using molasses to keep shit alive really do ya

though it’s a npk feed it doesn’t state any beneficial bacteria but it does support them and help them grow when added I want to know if they used sugar in their fermentation or just lab and enzymes like jadam
Again they have no bacteria so it’s not of relation to above but I wonder how they ferment with or without sugar

Looking online at fermented foods that preach probiotics beneficial bacteria and lactic acids non of which contain sugar in any mass amount with the most common originals sugar free .
The only reason sugar is in some of due to market wanting sweet thus to push sales must have some sweetened too is only reason you find some with sugar on tests I bet the beneficial are somewhat lower
then the other exception is companies copying a recipie for financial gain ,sugar based and not paying attention to science behind it but more so than not there sugar free and state sugar kills em but still sharing benefits of the origiknal

they die in way of making them so active they exhaust all energy before the time there needed and pop “premature evacuation “ yea that’s a v how many read that with a j haha .. anyway .. allowing too much sugar energy in they osmosis and swap their content replaced with water sugar must like that of a slug they canpass salt quite well but too much andshit hits the fan

bacteria must like ur eyes doesn’t have a skin to protect it so is available to osmosis given correct saturation’s . Salt and sugar although opposite carry the same preservative properties some ferments even use salt with lacto cause it’s all about the balance again too much salt fks shit up there too but seems more fire giving than sugar in way that it doesn’t seem to energise the mix in the same way

Typical commercial lactic cultures were grown at 100°F. in reconstituted nonfat dry milk containing varied concentrations of salt up to 5%. Acid development was stimulated by small amounts of salt, but was definitely inhibited at levels of 2.5% salt and over
Lactic acid bacteria tolerate high salt concentrations. The salt tolerance gives them an advantage over other less tolerant species and allows the lactic acid fermenters to begin metabolism, which produces acid, which further inhibits the growth of non-desirable organisms.


So is used in a way to wipe out other sensitive cultures as lacto is more tolerant

Slugs are slain by salt because of the scientific principle of osmosis. As explained by Britannica, osmosis occurs when a solution meets a permeable membrane. This solution is typically a homogenous mixture of two (or more) substances where one substance, the solute, is dissolved in the other, the solvent.
When the solution sits on both sides of a permeable membrane, i.e. slug skin, the solvent can pass through the membrane. In osmosis, solutions usually pass to whichever side has more solute. It’s a way of evening out the concentration of the solution in a natural way.
Slug cells are basically all water trapped inside very, very permeable membranes. If you sprinkle salt on a slug, the crystals will mix with the water in the slug’s mucus, creating a salt-water solution. But this new solution now has a higher salt content than that of the water within the slug’s cells. In order to even things out, water from the slug's cells is pulled out to join the salt-water mucus and dilute it, which it does, thereby dehydrating the slug from the inside out.
Why doesn’t salt hurt us the same way?
For human beings, this much salt is nothing compared to the water we have in our cells. Our skin is also not a thin, permeable membrane. It is a thick organ, designed to block out everything from solar radiation to pricker bushes. We do possess some semi-permeable membranes on our person. Our eyes are pretty permeable, actually. And if that made you blink or wince a little, you’re not alone. If you were to salt your eye, you might feel what a slug is feeling.

Yogurt that contains live cultures is the best source of lactobacilli.” Haar also adds that reducing your sugar intake may also be a good way to reduce growth of harmful bacteria in the vagina. She recommends a diet rich in probiotics, as well as lots of fresh fruits, vegetables, and whole grains.

Agricultural farming site says

One litre of 'instant solution' is made by mixing 10 ml of EM, 40 ml of molasses and 950 ml of water and leaving it for five to seven days, depending on temperature. The solution is then added to 1 litre of molasses and 98 litres of water to obtain 100 litres of ready-to-use EM solution

So em 10ml to 40ml mollasses and 950ml water is 4% for 7 days to become active you do this when you want them to work activating them with 4%mollasses
Then when feeding field it’s added to a 98litre barrel with 1% mollasses to make them feed again when applied to another food source

So this correlates to recharge dosages also which are very rep up in organic sections

this is New Zealand who are one of the leaders in notill regenerative farming specialise knf fermentation in university Auckland too big time schools in it


they are saying you can use small amounts of mollasses to increase application rates and to improve colonies but only at the time of feed …until then they store it cold without mollasses

phuck that hurt lol think I have solved it and believe not a lot of misconceptions and here say is leading a lot to be feeding nothing more than a mollasses believe isn’t it’s em microbe as I have been

Manufacturers add lactic acid to food to extend its shelf life,
Preserve the culture. Either place the culture in a refrigerator where it will keep for up to a year (if the mixture smells sour, the lactobacilli are no longer present) or stabilise the culture with 1:1 parts sugar or molasses.
So it keeps for a year anyway in fridge so no need to stabilise it’s used to stabilise foods

Site

The concentrations of sugar significantly decreased total lactic acid bacteria of the fermented turi milks after storing at refrigerate temperature for 4, 8, and 12 days (Figure 2, 3, 4). This phenomenon indicated that the bacterial growth rate decreased linearly with increasing sugar concentration.1

Stabilises lactic acid but the bacteria die without lab the cultures are good for a year and need a fibre source if anything so a weak mollasses 4% if anything added
I mean by the end of the year it will have converted and released lactic acid anyway the sugar I guess is a fast squeeze to get that but the bacteria is diver beneficial in the soil alive too more so than dead so if there happy for a year which it never lasts that long anyway why stabilise anything unless you can’t fridge it

Fibre I feel like adding malted barley to lab for it to eat if I wanna make it multiply or rye as it has natural sugars and also releases protease enzymes etc seems more logical if it’s about breeding them and colonising them as guides say which can’t happen without plant fibres it says

"kill" seems like a harsh word. I don't doubt it alters the microbial community to favor certain ones over others, but EM brewers use molasses for months-long batches, and my own experience says my buckets wouldn't be bubbling like mad if SOMETHING wasn't alive down there

Damn i use recharge every watering, i use it because of the microbes is it counter productive? Seems to mess with ph as well, if i can recall it raises it a bit..

Hi,
in your last paragraph you're debating using rye over malted barley for the natural sugars and protease. Malted barley has protease (amongst various other enzymes) and natural sugars aplenty.