Drip - overwatering problems. Experienced persons wanted.

Al B. Fuct

once had a dog named
Al,
What do you think about the products Hygrozyme to break down dead plant matter and Dutch Master Zone for disease prevention?
Hygrozyme is an enzyme based pathogen control Not known to work well and is not compatible with H2O2. The best preventative for root rot is to not overwater.

Also, on a different node... what do you think about Bushmaster to stop the vertical growth? I think it is used in the vegetative phase.
Not necessary. Just don't veg! Put just-rooted clones in to flower with zero veg time and you will get plants which finish about 30-40" tall.

Al. B. Thanks for the prompt reply.

I'm using 35% horticultural H2O2, so I did as you suggest and added at 1.7ml/L every 3-4 days. I think it was too late at that point anyway, and apparently it didn't help.
too late? You mean you were not using H2O2 from day 1?


I will follow your advice to the letter. Except, I'll use 17ml/L since I'm using 35% H2O2, correct?
no- 1.7ml/L when using 35%.

I have been reading on other forums, etc. that people have also used chlorine bleach and ran that through their setup (not through the plants). Do you think that would be a more effective way of ridding the pythium?
No. Don't use bleach on plant or nutrient contact surfaces. For disinfecting hard surfaces, use water with 10ml/L 50% grade H202. Nothing in H2O2 which will hurt plants, but even trace amounts of bleach is very hard on plants.
 

highpsi

Well-Known Member
too late? You mean you were not using H2O2 from day 1?
Correct. I wasn't, and that is probably what, along with other things, contributed to the pathogen getting out of control. I will use 1.7ml/L of H2O2 from now on though :)

no- 1.7ml/L when using 35%.
When I mentioned 17ml/L, I was referring to the disinfecting dose, not the regular dose. I know 1.7ml/L is correct for the maintainance dose.

From this point on, I will be vigilant wth my H2O2 dosing and be sure to only cycle the pump when needed. I'll Keep my water under 20*C at all times and keep my nose weary of any odd smells that may develop.

Thanks again for the help. I'll update this thread in a few days and let you know how things are going.

Cheers.
 

Al B. Fuct

once had a dog named
When I mentioned 17ml/L, I was referring to the disinfecting dose, not the regular dose. I know 1.7ml/L is correct for the maintainance dose.
ah, ok.

You won't need your nose with regularly applied H2O2. You just won't get any root rot.
 

icup

Member
Sorry i don't mean to hijack your thread but i had a few similar questions.
I also use a drip feed system, i just transplanted into some 5 gallon buckets when my seedlings started to outgrow the RR. I live in a very arid and hot climate and right now my plants are only under a T5 although i have a 400 HPS im waiting to fire up. Lights are currently on 24/7 and i plan to use the t5 for a week or two more, can i keep my drip on 24/7? Or do you think it would be smarter to get a timer? My roots have not yet penetrated the pots.
Thanks, this thread seems to answer a lot of unanswered questions i had.
 

GreenThumbSucker

Well-Known Member
Well, I've had my system running with a drip cycle of 15 mins on, every 3 hours (except during lights off) for about 2 days now, but it's still not helping. It seems that the best the plants looked was when I made them go 12 hours without water. I'm starting to think I should go with 1, maybe 2, 15 min drip cycles per day. I don't know what else to do really.

Al. B., Flood and drain is sounding more and more enticing by the day. Though, I'd rather keep what I have going if I can make it work for me. I built my drip system based on a system that was on display at the local hydro store. They were growing cherry tomatoes, and the growth was fantastic. Funny thing is, they had the pump running 24/7. When I first got my system going, I did the same and the growth was out of this world for the first week, then they started to droop and it's been down hill ever since.

Anyway, I have nothing to lose now so I'm going to just set the timer for one 15 min cycle and see where that gets me. I'll keep checking on the plants to make sure they aren't wilting, but right now this seems to be the only viable option. I'll post the results over the next day or so. Wish me luck.

Oh, and thanks Al.b., you've been a great help. At the very least, if drip doesn't work out for me, you've convinced me that flood and drain is the way to go.

Cheers
Ive always dripped 15/45 with no problems. My drip setups have consistantly blown away my ebb and flow setups. Most likely your problem isnt in overwatering. Ive ran a system 24/7 for weeks with no problems whatsoever and no difference from those that were on 15/45.

Once you have roots throughout your medium you wont overwater with drip. Roots love heavily oxygenated flowing water. If you keep your water temps down and lots of airstones you should be fine.

I consistantly get bigger buds and larger yields with my drip tables than my ebb and flow setup. I am convinced that it is the flowing water, just like NTF or aero.

You will not get root rot using H2o2 every few days.
 

GreenThumbSucker

Well-Known Member
Sorry i don't mean to hijack your thread but i had a few similar questions.
I also use a drip feed system, i just transplanted into some 5 gallon buckets when my seedlings started to outgrow the RR. I live in a very arid and hot climate and right now my plants are only under a T5 although i have a 400 HPS im waiting to fire up. Lights are currently on 24/7 and i plan to use the t5 for a week or two more, can i keep my drip on 24/7? Or do you think it would be smarter to get a timer? My roots have not yet penetrated the pots.
Thanks, this thread seems to answer a lot of unanswered questions i had.
Drip a few times a day til you see roots coming out the bottom of the pots. Keep the nutrient load low til you see roots coming out the bottom of the pots.

Once you see roots you can turn up the nutes
 

highpsi

Well-Known Member
Ive always dripped 15/45 with no problems. My drip setups have consistantly blown away my ebb and flow setups. Most likely your problem isnt in overwatering. Ive ran a system 24/7 for weeks with no problems whatsoever and no difference from those that were on 15/45.

Once you have roots throughout your medium you wont overwater with drip. Roots love heavily oxygenated flowing water. If you keep your water temps down and lots of airstones you should be fine.

I consistantly get bigger buds and larger yields with my drip tables than my ebb and flow setup. I am convinced that it is the flowing water, just like NTF or aero.

You will not get root rot using H2o2 every few days.
Thanks for resurrecting this thread. After many weeks of failed attempts, I have finally figured out the problems I was having, and why.

Initially I had my drip system setup in a 4x8 flood table (5" high sides) with a plastic cover over the table and 5" net pots placed in holes that were cut in the plastic covers. Anyway, like I mentioned before, after several failed attempts due to severe wilting and stress, I knew something was seriously wrong. H202 didn't do the trick, R/O water didn't do the trick, no matter what irrigation timing I used, it didn't matter, I still got severe drooping and eventually, crop failure. The big clue was that everytime I would go to empty the reservoir it would be murky/cloudy with a sky high PH, kind of smelly (like a damp basement kind of smell) and there would be a thin layer of slim covering everything. Well, needless to say that each time this happened, the cleanup was hellish. I'd run water with sodium hypochlorite (bleach) through the system (without plants of course) and clean every nook and cranny, only to start the vicious cycle again and again. Anyway, it got to the point where I almost abandoned hydroponics in favor of going back to soil.

That is until I sat down and really thought about the problem. First thing came to my mind was that it must be an environmental issue. After all, I was using high quality R/O water with the addition of H2O2, high quality 3 part nutes, in a very clean room, and checked on PH and TDS everyday. Water temperature was right on and so was the air temp, so I knew I pretty much had that part of the grow perfected, but I also knew that something was seriously wrong with the setup for it to go to shit in only a few days. That's when I thought about the root environment I had created by placing the plastic cover over the flood table. I thought it was a good idea first, as it would keep the humidity high so that when the roots forced their way out through the net pots, they wouldn't dry out, which was true, but it also created a highly humid (90%) and air stagnant root environment, which also created a great environment for pathogens to flourish.

So it was then that I decided that the cover must go. So I went out to the local hydro store and bought a bunch of two gallon nursery pots, yet another 50l bag of hydroton, then proceeded to spend the next 2 hours rinsing hydroton and filling pots. At the same time, I started 10 seedlings in 1.5" rockwool starter cubes under a T5. Anyway, fast forward to now, two weeks later, and I have 10 healthy seedlings in 2 gal pots filled with hydroton that are well on their way. I'm on a rather infrequent drip cycle right now, until such time that I see roots coming out the bottom of the pots, then I will up the irrigation cycles and the nute strength. Anyway, needless to say, when I dumped the res last night (after two weeks of use), it was perfectly clean, and had no smell. In fact the solution was still so good that I used it to irrigate my outdoor garden plants. The only negative aspect the current setup is evaporation, due to the lack of cover, but that isn't a big deal, I just add about a liter of water every day and that keeps the res full.

So it seems, at least for now, I'm pathogen free :) I'll update this thread from time to time in the future as to what kind of progress (or lack thereof) I'm having.
 

GreenThumbSucker

Well-Known Member
Thanks for resurrecting this thread. After many weeks of failed attempts, I have finally figured out the problems I was having, and why.

Initially I had my drip system setup in a 4x8 flood table (5" high sides) with a plastic cover over the table and 5" net pots placed in holes that were cut in the plastic covers. Anyway, like I mentioned before, after several failed attempts due to severe wilting and stress, I knew something was seriously wrong. H202 didn't do the trick, R/O water didn't do the trick, no matter what irrigation timing I used, it didn't matter, I still got severe drooping and eventually, crop failure. The big clue was that everytime I would go to empty the reservoir it would be murky/cloudy with a sky high PH, kind of smelly (like a damp basement kind of smell) and there would be a thin layer of slim covering everything. Well, needless to say that each time this happened, the cleanup was hellish. I'd run water with sodium hypochlorite (bleach) through the system (without plants of course) and clean every nook and cranny, only to start the vicious cycle again and again. Anyway, it got to the point where I almost abandoned hydroponics in favor of going back to soil.

That is until I sat down and really thought about the problem. First thing came to my mind was that it must be an environmental issue. After all, I was using high quality R/O water with the addition of H2O2, high quality 3 part nutes, in a very clean room, and checked on PH and TDS everyday. Water temperature was right on and so was the air temp, so I knew I pretty much had that part of the grow perfected, but I also knew that something was seriously wrong with the setup for it to go to shit in only a few days. That's when I thought about the root environment I had created by placing the plastic cover over the flood table. I thought it was a good idea first, as it would keep the humidity high so that when the roots forced their way out through the net pots, they wouldn't dry out, which was true, but it also created a highly humid (90%) and air stagnant root environment, which also created a great environment for pathogens to flourish.

So it was then that I decided that the cover must go. So I went out to the local hydro store and bought a bunch of two gallon nursery pots, yet another 50l bag of hydroton, then proceeded to spend the next 2 hours rinsing hydroton and filling pots. At the same time, I started 10 seedlings in 1.5" rockwool starter cubes under a T5. Anyway, fast forward to now, two weeks later, and I have 10 healthy seedlings in 2 gal pots filled with hydroton that are well on their way. I'm on a rather infrequent drip cycle right now, until such time that I see roots coming out the bottom of the pots, then I will up the irrigation cycles and the nute strength. Anyway, needless to say, when I dumped the res last night (after two weeks of use), it was perfectly clean, and had no smell. In fact the solution was still so good that I used it to irrigate my outdoor garden plants. The only negative aspect the current setup is evaporation, due to the lack of cover, but that isn't a big deal, I just add about a liter of water every day and that keeps the res full.

So it seems, at least for now, I'm pathogen free :) I'll update this thread from time to time in the future as to what kind of progress (or lack thereof) I'm having.
I had several back to back disasters when I first started growing hydroponically, but I wasnt going to let the disasters win, so I kept plugging along. A lot of new hydroponic growers quit when they have problems, but if you just decide to stick it out no matter what, and keep it basic and simple, you will find it is easier than soil.

The two to three times increase in yield aint bad either!!
 

Al B. Fuct

once had a dog named
Plants in clay pellets can tolerate frequent watering. However, if you start clones in rockwool cubes, make sure the RW cube does not get flooded/dripped.



In drip systems, use a drip ring to assure that you're wetting the pellets but not the RW cube. Buy them assembled or make your own from a tee fitting and flexible tubing with a bunch of 1/8" holes drilled in it.



Plants in RW can only tolerate watering about 1x/day. Once the roots knit into the pellets, those new roots can handle frequent (such as 15on/45off in lights on) if not continuous drip cycles. Flood systems can be set for about 5x 5min floods per day.

While ordinary mechanical timers with 15 min increments can be useful, digital timers can be set for single minute runtimes with multiple programs per day.
 
Top