journalreader
Well-Known Member
Brought it down to about 18-19" lol I dont want to compound my problems with light burn right now
Drooping/yellowing leaves DWC
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OldMedUser
Well-Known Member
Read thru the thread and wondering what the strength of the h2o2 is that you're starting with as your dosage seems really low especially if you're having root issues as it sounds like you are.
Using 35% food grade peroxide I would dose 0.5ml/L twice a week just to keep things clean but have gone up to 5.0ml/L daily for a few days when fighting rot.
I've used a lot in DWC and to fight root rot and never lost a plant in 50 DWC tubs. Some tubs like this one have had 16 plants at a time. 4 - 6" net pots with 4 plants in each.
I only ever use RO or distilled water too.
For plants the size of yours I'd be at 500ppm or EC1.0 and wouldn't change the nutes until after the stretch. Weekly changes are really just tossing out good nutes. For many of my grows I'd never change the nutes at all and it worked just as well. I'd just test ppm drop as they grew, after topping up with RO, then add small amounts of nutes to get back to my target level or higher if it was time to raise the ppm. I use Rubbermaid tubs so with the taller ones I have 50L of water to help keep things stable and would go three days between top ups.
Good luck!
Using 35% food grade peroxide I would dose 0.5ml/L twice a week just to keep things clean but have gone up to 5.0ml/L daily for a few days when fighting rot.
I've used a lot in DWC and to fight root rot and never lost a plant in 50 DWC tubs. Some tubs like this one have had 16 plants at a time. 4 - 6" net pots with 4 plants in each.
I only ever use RO or distilled water too.
For plants the size of yours I'd be at 500ppm or EC1.0 and wouldn't change the nutes until after the stretch. Weekly changes are really just tossing out good nutes. For many of my grows I'd never change the nutes at all and it worked just as well. I'd just test ppm drop as they grew, after topping up with RO, then add small amounts of nutes to get back to my target level or higher if it was time to raise the ppm. I use Rubbermaid tubs so with the taller ones I have 50L of water to help keep things stable and would go three days between top ups.
Good luck!
OldMedUser
Well-Known Member
What do you mean by reset?
journalreader
Well-Known Member
Ive been using 35% as well. Are you putting the h2o2 directly into the res? I was apprehensive aboit doing that..didnt want to stress plant out even more.Read thru the thread and wondering what the strength of the h2o2 is that you're starting with as your dosage seems really low especially if you're having root issues as it sounds like you are.
Using 35% food grade peroxide I would dose 0.5ml/L twice a week just to keep things clean but have gone up to 5.0ml/L daily for a few days when fighting rot.
I've used a lot in DWC and to fight root rot and never lost a plant in 50 DWC tubs. Some tubs like this one have had 16 plants at a time. 4 - 6" net pots with 4 plants in each.
View attachment 4634505
I only ever use RO or distilled water too.
For plants the size of yours I'd be at 500ppm or EC1.0 and wouldn't change the nutes until after the stretch. Weekly changes are really just tossing out good nutes. For many of my grows I'd never change the nutes at all and it worked just as well. I'd just test ppm drop as they grew, after topping up with RO, then add small amounts of nutes to get back to my target level or higher if it was time to raise the ppm. I use Rubbermaid tubs so with the taller ones I have 50L of water to help keep things stable and would go three days between top ups.
Good luck!
OldMedUser
Well-Known Member
Yeah I just add it slowly from a big syringe while the air is bubbling and it's never been a problem. Same with nutes or conc. sulphuric acid when I used to have to knock the pH down every 3 days. Then I got the newer AN pH Perfect nutes a few years after they came out and never bothered checking pH again in DWC or soil/soilless growing. I have been using AN for 20 years but have tried lots of other. Using some MegaCrop I won in a contest here too now and it works pretty damn good. Recently picked up a prize pack of REMO nutes I won in a draw and will be trying them out against the others soon. I'd prefer some of that winning on my lotto tickets then I can pay for my damn nutes myself! lol
It's a good idea when rot is present to mix up some top up water with peroxide at the same level you use in the tank and pour it thru the net pots to help kill any in there or it keeps coming back. If there are any bits of bad roots floating around they should be removed or they use up a lot of peroxide. Any slimy and rotting roots should be pulled off the rest of the roots too so you reduce the burden on the peroxide as well.
Even at 5ml/L the peroxide is only 0.175%. The math. X% x1000ml = 35% x 5ml, 1000X =175, X% = 175/1000, X% = 0.175
EvilScotsm@n
Well-Known Member
We'll you're getting some mixed reviews here aren't you.
I don't agree with most of what's been said and here's why.
The trick to dosing in hydro is to follow the ppm.
If it's going up at all. Even by 1ppm per day then the soup is too strong.
You want the ppm to be dropping as the plant feeds. That shows the plant is absorbing a higher concentration of nutes than water.
The roots are intelligent. They know what they want. And what they want is to absorb the different things at different rates and different times.
They can only do that though if things are balanced and the feed is light enough to allow it.
You can't force feed a plant. If you try to, then all that happens is certain nutrients over power the others and it goes tits up.
Usually nitrogen is the first winner.
Leaves go dark and droopy, sometimes develop a waxy look, the leaf tips claw down and growth slows massively.
If it doesn't get sorted quickly then growth stops all together.
The ppm dropping shows that the plant has free reign to feed as it pleases without the risk of things becoming too strong to allow it.
So, the way I do things is to start the res at 0.4ec. Once the ppm starts dropping by like 10% per day I go up 50%.
Once that starts dropping I go up 50% again.
It works out roughly 0.2ec per week of veg.
So a 3 week old plant needs around 0.6ec.
A 5 week old plant needs around 1ec.
Assuming they're growing properly.
Yours are not though. They're slow and it's most likely because of over feeding.
Personally I'd do as I just described and reset the res to 0.2 ec and wait for the drop.
The ppm dropping slightly also makes the ph behave itself. It should rise a little each day.
That again is a sign of good health. It shows the plant is feeding properly.
You start at ph5.5-5.7 and let it go upto 6.3-6.5 before bringing it back down.
That swing through the range ensures the availability of everything that's required.
It should take at least 4 days to do that.
If it goes any faster there's an issue, usually the nutes being too strong.
I don't agree with most of what's been said and here's why.
The trick to dosing in hydro is to follow the ppm.
If it's going up at all. Even by 1ppm per day then the soup is too strong.
You want the ppm to be dropping as the plant feeds. That shows the plant is absorbing a higher concentration of nutes than water.
The roots are intelligent. They know what they want. And what they want is to absorb the different things at different rates and different times.
They can only do that though if things are balanced and the feed is light enough to allow it.
You can't force feed a plant. If you try to, then all that happens is certain nutrients over power the others and it goes tits up.
Usually nitrogen is the first winner.
Leaves go dark and droopy, sometimes develop a waxy look, the leaf tips claw down and growth slows massively.
If it doesn't get sorted quickly then growth stops all together.
The ppm dropping shows that the plant has free reign to feed as it pleases without the risk of things becoming too strong to allow it.
So, the way I do things is to start the res at 0.4ec. Once the ppm starts dropping by like 10% per day I go up 50%.
Once that starts dropping I go up 50% again.
It works out roughly 0.2ec per week of veg.
So a 3 week old plant needs around 0.6ec.
A 5 week old plant needs around 1ec.
Assuming they're growing properly.
Yours are not though. They're slow and it's most likely because of over feeding.
Personally I'd do as I just described and reset the res to 0.2 ec and wait for the drop.
The ppm dropping slightly also makes the ph behave itself. It should rise a little each day.
That again is a sign of good health. It shows the plant is feeding properly.
You start at ph5.5-5.7 and let it go upto 6.3-6.5 before bringing it back down.
That swing through the range ensures the availability of everything that's required.
It should take at least 4 days to do that.
If it goes any faster there's an issue, usually the nutes being too strong.
OldMedUser
Well-Known Member
That's the way mine would always run when things were dialed in. Any deviation was because something was going out of whack so acts like an early warning system.
When I was running the older 3-part AN nutes at top up and testing the pH would be up around 6.4 and the ppm down 150ppm or so from say 750. I'd shoot in some of the nutes adjusting for the plant's growth stage then add 4 or 5 drops of 96% sulphuric acid and the pH would go down to around 5.4. 3 days later at top up it would be back around 6.4 and the ppm down again. Got so I didn't bother checking pH but once a month.
I monitored the ppm drop closely thru a few grows and at the onset of flowering the ppm drop could increase up to 4X during the stretch. I'll dose them up with all 3 nutes and a half dose of Big Bud a week before flipping to 12/12 then give them the other half at the flip with maybe a bit more nutes. Then I'll be burning my alcohol lamp for lots of extra CO2 and letting the temp go up close to 90F before the exhaust fan gets triggered. In the winter it stays cool enough that even with a 1000W HPS going it doesn't get much over 85F so the fan never kicks in and the CO2 is well over 1500 but that's as high as my controller will read.
After the stretch I feed Lucas Formula style with Big Bud and may do a nute change then to start with a fresh batch but not that often. No more CO2 and running the exhaust at 75F for fresh air a few times an hour. The ppm drop goes back to about the same as it was before the flip but slows over the last weeks so I allow it to drop naturally so it's down around 500ppm or less a week before I start a staggered harvest. I'll be adding some extras like S, K and Mg but very little base nutes.
Seems to work.
EvilScotsm@n
Well-Known Member
Yeah mate sounds pretty much same as me like. I don't really need to ph adjust iether. Just do it with the top ups. Maybe need to piss about with it when they slow down at the end but other than that I just ignore it.That's the way mine would always run when things were dialed in. Any deviation was because something was going out of whack so acts like an early warning system.
When I was running the older 3-part AN nutes at top up and testing the pH would be up around 6.4 and the ppm down 150ppm or so from say 750. I'd shoot in some of the nutes adjusting for the plant's growth stage then add 4 or 5 drops of 96% sulphuric acid and the pH would go down to around 5.4. 3 days later at top up it would be back around 6.4 and the ppm down again. Got so I didn't bother checking pH but once a month.
I monitored the ppm drop closely thru a few grows and at the onset of flowering the ppm drop could increase up to 4X during the stretch. I'll dose them up with all 3 nutes and a half dose of Big Bud a week before flipping to 12/12 then give them the other half at the flip with maybe a bit more nutes. Then I'll be burning my alcohol lamp for lots of extra CO2 and letting the temp go up close to 90F before the exhaust fan gets triggered. In the winter it stays cool enough that even with a 1000W HPS going it doesn't get much over 85F so the fan never kicks in and the CO2 is well over 1500 but that's as high as my controller will read.
After the stretch I feed Lucas Formula style with Big Bud and may do a nute change then to start with a fresh batch but not that often. No more CO2 and running the exhaust at 75F for fresh air a few times an hour. The ppm drop goes back to about the same as it was before the flip but slows over the last weeks so I allow it to drop naturally so it's down around 500ppm or less a week before I start a staggered harvest. I'll be adding some extras like S, K and Mg but very little base nutes.
Seems to work.
Start at one end and let it swing.
I think a lot of the issues new hydro growers get comes from trying to be too anal about it all.
Keep the ppm dropping and you can generally just set it and forget it for a while.
journalreader
Well-Known Member
Thanks for the info.. I'm going to take these out of the cab and go through each res and clip any brown roots and then treat new res water. I'm pissing away nutes right now, just trying to get this under control. I don't want the plant on the left growing too big compared to the other one lol.Yeah I just add it slowly from a big syringe while the air is bubbling and it's never been a problem. Same with nutes or conc. sulphuric acid when I used to have to knock the pH down every 3 days. Then I got the newer AN pH Perfect nutes a few years after they came out and never bothered checking pH again in DWC or soil/soilless growing. I have been using AN for 20 years but have tried lots of other. Using some MegaCrop I won in a contest here too now and it works pretty damn good. Recently picked up a prize pack of REMO nutes I won in a draw and will be trying them out against the others soon. I'd prefer some of that winning on my lotto tickets then I can pay for my damn nutes myself! lol
It's a good idea when rot is present to mix up some top up water with peroxide at the same level you use in the tank and pour it thru the net pots to help kill any in there or it keeps coming back. If there are any bits of bad roots floating around they should be removed or they use up a lot of peroxide. Any slimy and rotting roots should be pulled off the rest of the roots too so you reduce the burden on the peroxide as well.
Even at 5ml/L the peroxide is only 0.175%. The math. X% x1000ml = 35% x 5ml, 1000X =175, X% = 175/1000, X% = 0.175
The EC is starting to drop on the right bucket, but on the left bucket ec/ph is rising while water level is dropping some. So I'm assuming the rot is starting to deal some damage even though leaves aren't showing it yet.
I'm going to change out Res AGAIN lol and cut down the feed about 50% and treat with h2o2. I had them feeding about a week or so ago but the heat where I am pushed the res temps up too high and rot set in.
OldMedUser
Well-Known Member
It's the heat that causes the problems. A lot of people use products like HydroGuard to introduce beneficial bacteria and in many cases it seems to work but I've seen a lot of those grows go to shit in 11 years of participating in quite a few pot forums. I figure if you're going to go hydro then keep the bugs out of the equation!
About 10 years ago I made a DIY chiller from an old water cooler and could keep the nute temp down to 65F and stopped using peroxide altogether. Never had root issues after that and they stayed lily white until flowering when I would add Big Bud powder and it would stain them a light brown colour. Just a little fountain pump in the tub pumping the nutes up to the tank in the cooler that was filled with car antifreeze then back to the tub. Uses 3/8" tubing with about 15' of it coiled up in the cooler tank. Had to turn the control on the cooler as low as it would go as it would freeze water so that's why it was gifted to me by a boss where I worked. The antifreeze kept the tank from freezing solid. Had a timer on the cooler too so it wasn't running all the time.
journalreader
Well-Known Member
I was using hydro initially but it was all downhill once the res went past 75 lol. I'd love to make a chiller, but I've had to adjust my cab enough already where something like that would completely ruin any last sense of "stealth" I likely have lol.It's the heat that causes the problems. A lot of people use products like HydroGuard to introduce beneficial bacteria and in many cases it seems to work but I've seen a lot of those grows go to shit in 11 years of participating in quite a few pot forums. I figure if you're going to go hydro then keep the bugs out of the equation!
About 10 years ago I made a DIY chiller from an old water cooler and could keep the nute temp down to 65F and stopped using peroxide altogether. Never had root issues after that and they stayed lily white until flowering when I would add Big Bud powder and it would stain them a light brown colour. Just a little fountain pump in the tub pumping the nutes up to the tank in the cooler that was filled with car antifreeze then back to the tub. Uses 3/8" tubing with about 15' of it coiled up in the cooler tank. Had to turn the control on the cooler as low as it would go as it would freeze water so that's why it was gifted to me by a boss where I worked. The antifreeze kept the tank from freezing solid. Had a timer on the cooler too so it wasn't running all the time.
OldMedUser
Well-Known Member
Having to be stealthy must suck. I have my grow room down in the basement and we live on my small acreage with the closest neighbour a half mile upwind from us so noise or odour is not really a concern. During the winter tho the stink can fill up the yard around the house when there is no wind so when customers drop by to buy eggs from the wife I wonder what they might be thinking as they drive away. lol Legal now so who cares and I want to sell a big carbon filter I bought a few years ago and never used. Got a Trimpro Unplugged trimmer I'd like to get rid of too. Doesn't work well with fresh buds so useless to me.
I've been mainly growing in soilless ProMix HP the last couple years as I always have at least a half dozen strains going at once and not lots of space. Getting into breeding fem seeds now and just getting a few crosses stabilized for a hobby.
journalreader
Well-Known Member
Yeah, I can only dream about being blatant about it for now lol. I was thinking of moving it downstairs into my living room where it is MUCH cooler but way too much traffic down there unless I build a completely new cab.. Maybe next year. Living with shared walls compounds my problems as well.Having to be stealthy must suck. I have my grow room down in the basement and we live on my small acreage with the closest neighbour a half mile upwind from us so noise or odour is not really a concern. During the winter tho the stink can fill up the yard around the house when there is no wind so when customers drop by to buy eggs from the wife I wonder what they might be thinking as they drive away. lol Legal now so who cares and I want to sell a big carbon filter I bought a few years ago and never used. Got a Trimpro Unplugged trimmer I'd like to get rid of too. Doesn't work well with fresh buds so useless to me.
I've been mainly growing in soilless ProMix HP the last couple years as I always have at least a half dozen strains going at once and not lots of space. Getting into breeding fem seeds now and just getting a few crosses stabilized for a hobby.
I always daydream about moving out to Montana with some decent acreage, give me some room to stretch my legs! lol. I decided to only change the res in the right bucket, the left bucket is starting to eat again and the leaves are perking up... I'll post a pic tomorrow evening.
journalreader
Well-Known Member
Ive been treating with h2o2 and keeping the water low 70s.. left plant seems to be healthy, but right plant is slowly yellowing more. Will it take some time for the root issues to subside and bring it back into growth?
OldMedUser
Well-Known Member
The right one just looks hungry but if it's having root issues then maybe it can't absorb the nutes properly.
Doesn't look dead yet so maybe up the peroxide dosage and see if it comes around. If it is you should find some new roots coming out thru the netpot. Fingers crossed!
Doesn't look dead yet so maybe up the peroxide dosage and see if it comes around. If it is you should find some new roots coming out thru the netpot. Fingers crossed!
journalreader
Well-Known Member
I did a double dose today of h2o2 about 30ml in each bucket 3 gallons in each. The left bucket has some good new growth coming in. I lightly touched the right buckets roots and some fell right off with barely any force.. they were lightly brown. I'll see how they play out overnight and maybe later tomorrow evening before lights on add in some nute water. Right buckets info is 252ppm, 5.82 ph, .504 ec.The right one just looks hungry but if it's having root issues then maybe it can't absorb the nutes properly.
Doesn't look dead yet so maybe up the peroxide dosage and see if it comes around. If it is you should find some new roots coming out thru the netpot. Fingers crossed!
Not sure if I should just wait out the next two days and give upped nutes on the scheduled res change this Wednesday.
OldMedUser
Well-Known Member
Whenever I have trouble with plants I try to keep them on an even keel and don't change too much until I see improvement. A little lower light levels is part of any first aid for plants. Maybe even a plastic humidity dome if a sick plant is droopy. If the roots are sick then water can't get to the plant.
A last minute save for a plant you really want to keep is to pot it in some soil/soilless mix. Then you can always get clones and have another go in a pail if you want. Quicker than starting over again from seed.
A last minute save for a plant you really want to keep is to pot it in some soil/soilless mix. Then you can always get clones and have another go in a pail if you want. Quicker than starting over again from seed.
journalreader
Well-Known Member
Just wrapped them in electrical tape. I'll be picking up some black hose on the next run.
I've been considering doing coco on the next grow, less worry about the res temps which is my biggest issue. Left plant has some yellowing on the bottom leaves. LOL the problems never end.Whenever I have trouble with plants I try to keep them on an even keel and don't change too much until I see improvement. A little lower light levels is part of any first aid for plants. Maybe even a plastic humidity dome if a sick plant is droopy. If the roots are sick then water can't get to the plant.
A last minute save for a plant you really want to keep is to pot it in some soil/soilless mix. Then you can always get clones and have another go in a pail if you want. Quicker than starting over again from seed.