DWC Root Slime Cure aka How to Breed Beneficial Microbes

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Sometimes the plants just give up after so much abuse. I have lost several plants including a couple after I started the tea, and it was always ones which I had sterilized and got reinfected and then sterilized and then inoculated, ect. It all amounts to stress and after so much the best thing to do is start from square one. It's always a sad and disappointing situation and also one of the reasons I enjoy helping others kill the slime.

As far as I can tell the slime is not systemic, so any clones taken from infected plants should be okay. This might offer some people a way to avoid losing an entire strain to the slime.

do you know how to dry and preseve bennies by chance ??????

Heisenberg said:

Sometimes the plants just give up after so much abuse. I have lost several plants including a couple after I started the tea, and it was always ones which I had sterilized and got reinfected and then sterilized and then inoculated, ect. It all amounts to stress and after so much the best thing to do is start from square one. It's always a sad and disappointing situation and also one of the reasons I enjoy helping others kill the slime.

As far as I can tell the slime is not systemic, so any clones taken from infected plants should be okay. This might offer some people a way to avoid losing an entire strain to the slime.

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heisenburg.........YOU SIR ARE THE MAN!!!!! thanks for posting this thread, one of my plants ended up with rot and one week ago i cleaned the res and system, then inoculated with your tea and added twice now and the rot gone. new explosion of roots and even new growth where the rot was hitting the roots the worst. i tried bleach which kept it at bay but never got rid of it and h202 that did close to nothing(for the rot). again thanks again for posting, people like yourself make the internet a valuable tool. +rep to ya too heisenburg.

sappytreetree said:

do you know how to dry and preseve bennies by chance ??????

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The method I posted a few pages back to collect and preserve microbes from the wild is the only practical thing I know to do. I think you would need laboratory conditions to actually make the powder you can get from fungi.com for $6.


A few updates:

I've always had problems with mold/mildew on my clones. I live in a swampy area and have a problem with that sort of thing, which is why I think I was prone to slime to begin with. After a while I noticed the clones that get mold, even on just one leaf, never take root. Because of the combo of sprays I was using I felt it was best to fight the mold with Zone. Zone does prevent/kill it, but you have to spray every day to keep it from coming back. I ran out of wilt spray and decided to change things a bit. I mixed some of the DM APS clone spray and added a bit of tea. I sprayed the clones once right after cutting them. 2 weeks later and I've not seen the first sign of mold, and have 7/10 rooted clones. Before I would get 4-5/10 and have to spray daily.

I'm noticing in situations where there is almost no root base, as with clones and seedlings, it is indeed beneficial to provide a little housing for the bennies, and add the tea a bit more often but in slightly less doses.

It helps to inoculate the root crown (where root turns into stem) so pour the tea through your net pot if you can.

Welll the all organics is underway at my place.... using the standards of worm castings, bat guano, volcanic mineral dust, dolomite lime, with fish ferts and seaweed from Neptunes harvest.... also made some Brew poo,,, a compost tea innoculated with the Myco beasties from fungi.com.... wish me luck... will post updates as I go along...

Damn Heis!!! Thats a DOOM and GLOOM response!! lol You must work in the e.r .. the guy that tells all the family members that their loved one may not make it... No , seriously... I guess the next few days will tell if they are going to be alright or not.... My res temps at night have been to cold and that has hurt the bennies (60-62 degrees) and the fact that I added hygrozyme, high brix and a bit of superthrive the last rez change... MISTAKE!!! Big Time!! Well, my very first grow,, I hope I can just make a harvest out of it now,,, I had high hopes of beating Legal in our SCROGGOFF thread (grams /watt) but it would take an incredible comeback at this point.... My plants may be down, but they are not out!! thx, Frogster

I'm in the midst of my first batch of aero clones with myco-bennies in the rez. I usually have aero clones root alright, never in 5 days like some, more like 10 to 14 days. Random losses were common though, often after the first roots already formed. I saw my best survival after I started adding a mild dose of chlorine to my ez-cloners, and maybe I should have stuck with that since it worked, but I really hope the bennies will be as effective or better.

I'm sprinkling bene powder in my two ez-cloners every couple days to hopefully maintain a living population. Stems are swelling but not quite rooted yet, soon I expect. Water is 75 deg and pH5.8, also a little Hormex and very mild bloom nutrient added.

Heisen or anyone, any further guidance? Am I doing this right?

Thanks!

madcatter said:

Welll the all organics is underway at my place.... using the standards of worm castings, bat guano, volcanic mineral dust, dolomite lime, with fish ferts and seaweed from Neptunes harvest.... also made some Brew poo,,, a compost tea innoculated with the Myco beasties from fungi.com.... wish me luck... will post updates as I go along...

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Good luck, let us know how things turn out.

frogster said:

Damn Heis!!! Thats a DOOM and GLOOM response!! lol You must work in the e.r .. the guy that tells all the family members that their loved one may not make it... No , seriously... I guess the next few days will tell if they are going to be alright or not.... My res temps at night have been to cold and that has hurt the bennies (60-62 degrees) and the fact that I added hygrozyme, high brix and a bit of superthrive the last rez change... MISTAKE!!! Big Time!! Well, my very first grow,, I hope I can just make a harvest out of it now,,, I had high hopes of beating Legal in our SCROGGOFF thread (grams /watt) but it would take an incredible comeback at this point.... My plants may be down, but they are not out!! thx, Frogster

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Well if you see any new growth on top or new shoots from the roots then they are still worth fighting for, but the longer they go into bud the less likely they will be to form new roots. You could always try to foliar feed in the meantime.

poindexterous said:

I'm in the midst of my first batch of aero clones with myco-bennies in the rez. I usually have aero clones root alright, never in 5 days like some, more like 10 to 14 days. Random losses were common though, often after the first roots already formed. I saw my best survival after I started adding a mild dose of chlorine to my ez-cloners, and maybe I should have stuck with that since it worked, but I really hope the bennies will be as effective or better.

I'm sprinkling bene powder in my two ez-cloners every couple days to hopefully maintain a living population. Stems are swelling but not quite rooted yet, soon I expect. Water is 75 deg and pH5.8, also a little Hormex and very mild bloom nutrient added.

Heisen or anyone, any further guidance? Am I doing this right?

Thanks!

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If you are using plain water and just cuttings, there will be no food in the water to help the microbes wake up. Adding straight powder is not ideal but still okay if you have some sort of root base. The roots provide food and housing for the microbes. So you probably don't have much active bacteria in your water, however it's still full of fungi spores that should find and colonize the roots once they start. You should be okay but if not, try brewing the microbes first next time. Also, if it works for you, there is nothing wrong with using bleach until the cuttings get a root base and then switching to microbes once you transplant them.

Heisenberg said:

If you are using plain water and just cuttings, there will be no food in the water to help the microbes wake up. Adding straight powder is not ideal but still okay if you have some sort of root base. The roots provide food and housing for the microbes. So you probably don't have much active bacteria in your water, however it's still full of fungi spores that should find and colonize the roots once they start. You should be okay but if not, try brewing the microbes first next time. Also, if it works for you, there is nothing wrong with using bleach until the cuttings get a root base and then switching to microbes once you transplant them.

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So the microbe spores are at least just dormant, and not destroyed/drowned in the plain water? If so that's not so bad as my aero-clone troubles usually came after roots formed anyway, so if they wake up after rooting that'd be good. Yeah, I should re-read this thread and make the actual tea. Thanks!

Ok, so I read the original post tea instructions. That's really easy! So essentially half fill a 5 gallon bucket with water, RO in my case, make sure it's highly aerated, dissolve a Tbs of molasses in there, I've got organic blackstrap in my kitchen, and a small scoop of my fungi perfecti mycogrow or great white, and let it bubble for 48 hrs? Has this been revised at all throughout this thread or is that right on?(sorry 23 pages is a lot so I'm being lazy and asking

Thanks!

Why go to all that trouble when you can get Quantum Growth products. They are the only liquid stable photosyntheic bacteria on the market today. $75 a gallon on Hid hut arrives at your door and you don't have to mix nothing just measure off and add. Then reap the rewards of quicker harvest, larger yields and no loss of weight. I used QUANTUM GROWTH for years and it really hasn't been advertise in this industry. But this industry's manufactures we quick to jump in the beneficial microbe business when they saw the results they were having with them in the farming , horticulture, and lawn industries. Even the big chemical companies laughed when microbes hit the market now they all have some kind of spore former. Quantum is liquid they are living with only one out of the five products has any spore former microbe in it It has two year shelf life in a cool storage room. This product can change your growing habits and reduce your nutrient costs. IT WORKS WELL IN ANY GROWING, DWC, FLOW OR SOIL. hAPPY GROWING

poindexterous said:

Ok, so I read the original post tea instructions. That's really easy! So essentially half fill a 5 gallon bucket with water, RO in my case, make sure it's highly aerated, dissolve a Tbs of molasses in there, I've got organic blackstrap in my kitchen, and a small scoop of my fungi perfecti mycogrow or great white, and let it bubble for 48 hrs? Has this been revised at all throughout this thread or is that right on?(sorry 23 pages is a lot so I'm being lazy and asking

Thanks!

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Nope, that's pretty much it, although I suspect each gardener tailors the recipe to fit their grow. You can take as much libertity with it as you need to, as long as you follow the basic logic. Add the bennies, air and food, give them time to eat the food, multiply, and diversify, then chill them to near stasis till needed. It may seem elaborate but it fits the unique situation we create in DWC style grows. Ebb and flow growers, for example, have no fear of slime, so if they wanted to use bennies they could just add the powder and molasses directly to the res, although brewing the tea would still make the products last longer.

indoorman said:

Why go to all that trouble when you can get Quantum Growth products. They are the only liquid stable photosyntheic bacteria on the market today. $75 a gallon on Hid hut arrives at your door and you don't have to mix nothing just measure off and add. Then reap the rewards of quicker harvest, larger yields and no loss of weight. I used QUANTUM GROWTH for years and it really hasn't been advertise in this industry. But this industry's manufactures we quick to jump in the beneficial microbe business when they saw the results they were having with them in the farming , horticulture, and lawn industries. Even the big chemical companies laughed when microbes hit the market now they all have some kind of spore former. Quantum is liquid they are living with only one out of the five products has any spore former microbe in it It has two year shelf life in a cool storage room. This product can change your growing habits and reduce your nutrient costs. IT WORKS WELL IN ANY GROWING, DWC, FLOW OR SOIL. hAPPY GROWING

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You apparently do not grasp the reasoning of this thread. The reasons to make the tea are:

1) Activate, multiply and diversify the microbes before adding them to the res. (fight disease)

2) Make any store bought products last much longer (save money)

3) Provide yourself with a product that is more active and diverse than anything that comes in a bottle. (DIY)

The Quantum Growth product line is just another microbe product with only one real bragging right, which is longer shelf life as compared to other liquid products. Aquashield has a shelf life of one year. All the powdered products that I am aware of have a shelf life of about 2-5 years. So shelf life is already a non-concern for most growers reading this thread, as is specific bio-control among beneficials. Diversity is something we strive for after all.

None of the products suggest having any different or better microbes than the ones already known to help plants. Taking a look at the FAQ on the website we see:

Why use Quantum Growth -The Quantum Growth Series of products replace the natural soil microorganisms that are depleted through fumigation, tilling, harvesting, and/or overuse of chemical controls. (This can be accomplished with the tea or just about any microbe product)

How is Quantum Growth different - The Quantum Growth Series of products are the only biological products that are shelf-stable, contain photosynthetic and other vegetative cultures, and do not use growth inhibitors. There is no other product that meets these criteria. (Firstly this implies that these criteria are important, but even so, EWC fits them pretty well. I suppose EWC has the microbes in spore and cyst form, as opposed to live but dormant cultures. I am not sure growth inhibitors are a bad thing, They simply keep the microbes dormant until they are needed, and are only an issue with (some) liquid products. Many microbes are naturally dormant until they sense O2 and/or food)

What quality assurance can you provide - The Quantum Growth Series of products are manufactured in an EPA- and FDA- registered facility. Each container of a Quantum Growth product goes through a multi-stage fermentation process in its own container, and is not diluted during fermentation. The Quantum Growth Series is not a compost tea, manure tea, soil soup, or any other product of an uncontrolled process. The Quantum Growth Series is biotechnology and biophysics in a bottle. (Does nature provide quality assurance? So they hype for half a page that nature knows best, and then brag how their product is not something uncontrolled like you would find in nature. Perhaps I am missing the point here but my bacteria infested tea is not something I worry about passing FDA inspection.)

Do your products contain any genetically modified organisms - No. The Quantum Growth Series is composed of microorganisms or microorganisms combined with high quality peat humus extract, depending on the specific product. Quantum Growth contains no genetically modified organisms. (So there is no reason to believe these aren't the same microbes we find in EWC, forest humus and other microbe products. There is nothing proprietary here in terms of microorganisms.)


So not only is this just another microbe product, but it's smothered in a huge pile of marketing bullshit. A gallon of tea would cost a tiny fraction of what a gallon of their product does, and for our purposes would be superior in just about every way, unless of course you wanted to put it on the shelf for the next 5 years...

Yeah, as summarized just above this tea is easier to make than a sandwich, and the pound of mycogrow I bought will make a LOT of it, plus I can use it with(or without) any other nutrient I want, so it's much more versatile on it's own. Better go mix up a batch now....

Well my first batch of Poo Brew hit the ladies last night for some and this morning for others.... So far so good.... and as for the complexity of brewing compost tea? If you cannot do this, you should not be allowed near plants of any type... and as for Fungi.com.... what a great resource and wicked fast shipping even to Canada , EH!

@ 24 hr




48 hr later




I really like the beneficial tea! Thank you for sharing your knowledge so generously Heisenberg. It definitely saved my current grow! Perhaps you can clear up something for me. With the liquid products, how can they have any shelf life when it's in an anaerobic environment?

Well to all who make thier own tea. I sure hope you don't brew up something you don't want. Don't take a breath if you have a cold on your mix you could mix up a little influnze with your plants. I prefer a microbe that has been in made in approved epa registered lab. I prefere not to have to work to hard that's why I grow. If you saw the results you wouldn't bother making your own. I can't speak for the other spore forming trap outthere because I never used it. The technology behind them are 20 years old. As for the shelf life I don,t know about 5 years I thinks its 2 years once product is openned. I have added two to three harvest a year using it and laughed all the way to bank in the islands. Five years you can check and see if it still good. I'll be retired and living on a Virgin Island by then. Happy growing Indoorman

rosecitypapa said:

I really like the beneficial tea! Thank you for sharing your knowledge so generously Heisenberg. It definitely saved my current grow! Perhaps you can clear up something for me. With the liquid products, how can they have any shelf life when it's in an anaerobic environment?

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Your welcome and thanks for the pics. You bring up a good question. I would love for a microbiologist or even a product rep to stop by and give us clear answers, but for now I can only offer my speculation.

Some microbes survive in an anerobic environment by existing in a dormant state. They simply sit and wait for conditions to be right for them to thrive. In spore or cyst form, the microbes have a hard shell and are wrapped in layers of proteins which protect them through unfavorable conditions such as drought, heat, cold, even radiation. Other microbes do not form spores, but still slow down and become almost dormant in chilled conditions or if the right chemicals are present.

Some manufacturers do not make the bottles 100% air tight because microbes tend to let off gas when active. So that the bottles wont explode they are allowed to breath. The act of shaking the bottle during shipping and what not puts a little oxygen into the mix, which can wake up a few microbes and eventually deplete the shelf life. Some products have growth inhibitors added so this wont happen. In that case the inhibitor is at sufficient levels in the product as to prevent the microbes from growing. Once you mix the product in your res or tea, the inhibitor is diluted to the point of being ineffective and the microbes are no longer restrained.

indoorman said:

Well to all who make thier own tea. I sure hope you don't brew up something you don't want. Don't take a breath if you have a cold on your mix you could mix up a little influnze with your plants. I prefer a microbe that has been in made in approved epa registered lab. I prefere not to have to work to hard that's why I grow. If you saw the results you wouldn't bother making your own. I can't speak for the other spore forming trap outthere because I never used it. The technology behind them are 20 years old. As for the shelf life I don,t know about 5 years I thinks its 2 years once product is openned. I have added two to three harvest a year using it and laughed all the way to bank in the islands. Five years you can check and see if it still good. I'll be retired and living on a Virgin Island by then. Happy growing Indoorman

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Pathogenic microbes tend to be anaerobic, so they will not thrive in the tea environment. They would also have a hard time competing for resources and eventually be overgrown by the beneficials. In addition, many of the beneficials make antibiotics so the tea is flooded with them. Influenza however is a virus; many times smaller than the bacteria. A virus can not replicate unless it enters a host cell. It then takes over the cell and uses it as a factory to produce more viruses. Viruses are very picky about what types of cells they will invade, and Influenza is specific to respiratory epithelial cells. So if some influenza got into the tea it would not be able to multiply.

If you prefer to be lazy and spend money then that is your prerogative, but don't make it sound like your choice is smarter or more prudent. You prefer not to work hard which is why you grow? So with weed, youd rather grow it than buy it, and with microbes you would rather buy them than grow them...