Heise, I apoligize for sounding that way. The last thing I want to do is offend anyone. Your blog on microbes is very good and has lots of info. I have a close friend that is one of their reps. So i am not having to buy it which saves quite a bit. Even though it's cheaper than any other product out their. He's trying to get the word out on the product so I told him I help out a little on the site. I am sorry if I came across wrong to any one who read this blog, especially Heise. I believe in beneficial microbes and are world better take a better look at them if we plan to be able to feed our growing population. O yea Heise you know more about microbes than your rep. does. Again enjoyed the reading. Happy growing, Indoorman
DWC Root Slime Cure aka How to Breed Beneficial Microbes
- Thread starter Heisenberg
- Start date
Heisenberg
Well-Known Member
No worries, I am simply a stickler for logic, and marketing ploys are a pet peeve of mine so I am a bit biased. There isn't a product out there who's marketing doesn't get on my nerves, doesn't mean there is anything wrong with the product itself. You simply framed it as if the tea was made obsolete by this product so I had to respond. That isn't to say that each grower shouldn't decide for themselves what methods and products work best for them, and as I stated, if you find more value in saving yourself time and effort, and have the money, then that's your choice.
mindphuk
Well-Known Member
Do you honestly think that your plants can get influenza? You sound like the perfect patsy for their sales pitch except my guess is you don't need to buy it because you're a shill for the company. Tell me I'm wrong then explain why every post that you have made here since you joined has been to plug this stuff?
Sorry, but we don't take kindly to spamming and company shills. We are happy to let company reps discuss their product but don't come here pretending to be just a satisfied customer with no connection. Of course it makes me wonder what other deceitful tactics Quantum Grow likes to use. I will be sure to let my local hydro store manager know so he can avoid carrying your product.
mindphuk
Well-Known Member
We appear to have posted simultaneously. I appreciate that you came clean about your connection with the company rep. If I could make a suggestion is to put a disclaimer in your signature that mentions your connection. It is the ethical thing to do especially since you get consideration from them in the form of free goods.
Gentleman, again thank for aceptaining my apology, I will take that advice in future postings about the product. I would like to ask you and your readers not to hold the company responisble for my misrepresentation in my posts. That was my doing because I received free products from a rep. not the company as a whole. They are just trying to get thier name out there in this industry and don't have the backing to start a major advertising campaign. The manufactures are Egoloical labs. out of cape coral, fl. if you want to check out their site. They have been inwater remediation since 1976 and have taking that technology to the land about 5 years ago. Again gents have a great weekend and enjoy the game. happy growing Indoorman
Ralph Marvin
Member
Hello again, Heisenberg. I'm still following your recipe to the letter, and my roots are still absolutely gorgeous. Having only grown in DWC and having been plagued with slime from day one, I didn't even realize until now just what healthy roots should look like. I'm so grateful that I'm reluctant to ask for your help again, but, of course, that's what I'm about to do.
I was so delighted with the success of the tea that I changed everything I was doing to everything you are doing (and again, it's worked out beautifully!), including the use of Purple Maxx. I bought my Purple Maxx in December, but only just opened the bottle, and I found this odd black stuff floating in it, appeared to be mold. A quick online search revealed that a lot of folks found the same thing in their bottles. I emailed the company about it and just got this response:
It is not uncommon for the growth of the "strange
substance" in Purple Maxx and/or Snow Storm. This will not hurt your
plants and as far as the foliar feeding - we have not had any
complaints that this will cause a problem either. Even though this
"strange substance" will not hurt anything, we are in the process of
finding a cure for it, as it is alarming for customers to see. Please let
us know if you have any further
concerns. Thank you for using our products.
I found it odd that they twice referred to the black stuff, in quotes, as a "strange substance" without telling me what it was, so I wrote back and asked. That got me this reply:
It's just a type of mold that is coming from a contamination. We are trying
to determine if the contamination is from air exposure, the plastic bottle,
etc. In the meantime, please know that it is perfectly safe to use.
If I could impose on you to pick your brain just once again, Heis, do you have any opinion as to whether or not this is logical - that the "strange substance" is indeed mold, and that they don't know the source of the contamination, yet they are able to assure me that it is perfectly safe to use?
In any case, thank you again for making this hobby enjoyable again!
I was so delighted with the success of the tea that I changed everything I was doing to everything you are doing (and again, it's worked out beautifully!), including the use of Purple Maxx. I bought my Purple Maxx in December, but only just opened the bottle, and I found this odd black stuff floating in it, appeared to be mold. A quick online search revealed that a lot of folks found the same thing in their bottles. I emailed the company about it and just got this response:
It is not uncommon for the growth of the "strange
substance" in Purple Maxx and/or Snow Storm. This will not hurt your
plants and as far as the foliar feeding - we have not had any
complaints that this will cause a problem either. Even though this
"strange substance" will not hurt anything, we are in the process of
finding a cure for it, as it is alarming for customers to see. Please let
us know if you have any further
concerns. Thank you for using our products.
I found it odd that they twice referred to the black stuff, in quotes, as a "strange substance" without telling me what it was, so I wrote back and asked. That got me this reply:
It's just a type of mold that is coming from a contamination. We are trying
to determine if the contamination is from air exposure, the plastic bottle,
etc. In the meantime, please know that it is perfectly safe to use.
If I could impose on you to pick your brain just once again, Heis, do you have any opinion as to whether or not this is logical - that the "strange substance" is indeed mold, and that they don't know the source of the contamination, yet they are able to assure me that it is perfectly safe to use?
In any case, thank you again for making this hobby enjoyable again!
Heisenberg
Well-Known Member
I do not use purple maxx (put your buds in the fridge overnight after harvest if you want to bring out the purple) but I have noticed this mold in one bottle of snow storm that had been opened and sat around for a while. I assumed the contamination was from me so I threw it out and ordered a new one. Since then I keep the product in the fridge. It may be worth noting that I do not foliar feed with snow storm, just add it to my res at 1ml per gallon.
They probably do know what the substance is, they just didn't want to get too technical. I imagine they get emails from people who don't even understand why they use the product in the first place, they just had a store rep sell them on it. So sending out emails with the technical terms probably just causes confusion. I don't understand why they just didn't refer to it as mold to begin with though, perhaps because of the negative connotation. It is odd that they haven't determined where the contamination is coming from. I do believe them when they say it doesn't hurt anything, but never the less I would return the bottle for a new one if at all possible. You pay good money for the product; there is no reason not to demand the best quality.
They probably do know what the substance is, they just didn't want to get too technical. I imagine they get emails from people who don't even understand why they use the product in the first place, they just had a store rep sell them on it. So sending out emails with the technical terms probably just causes confusion. I don't understand why they just didn't refer to it as mold to begin with though, perhaps because of the negative connotation. It is odd that they haven't determined where the contamination is coming from. I do believe them when they say it doesn't hurt anything, but never the less I would return the bottle for a new one if at all possible. You pay good money for the product; there is no reason not to demand the best quality.
Ralph Marvin
Member
Ah! I confused your use of Snowstorm with Purple Maxx. Anyhow, from what they say, the problem appears to affect both products. I didn't hang onto the receipt so I don't know how keen my hydro store will be on a return, but perhaps I will try the product, "black substance" and all, in the res next time around (this time, I am still basking in my first real success and don't want to take any chances).
Many thanks, yet again. I appreciate your help very much.
Heisenberg
Well-Known Member
I wouldn't be able to bring myself to use it, even though I have no doubt it's harmless. I can confirm snowstorm does do what it claims, although if you have a strain that already produces a carpet of crystals, it's probably redundant. If your hydro store sells the product they may be aware of the problem and I should think would accept an exchange no questions asked. In any case, thanks for sharing the information with us, and be sure to let us know how it turns out.
Heisenberg
Well-Known Member
Sorry I am not exactly sure what you are asking. Technically just adding molasses to the water makes it a kind of thin wort. Traditionally a wort is made from mashed grains. When brewing alcohol we would add hops and other things to the wort. A wort is usually sterilized so the yeast does not compete with other microbes. In brewing, molasses can be used to enhance or replace traditional wort. It does not look like there is anything special to do when using molasses at the stage of worting. Later on the molasses taste may need to be conditioned out, but that's beyond the scope of microbes.
hey heisenburgh your the man like someone said a few pages back, a superhero. your advice is always spot on with no unimportant opinions, always stating the extent of your knowledge instead of making stuff up like many people do. thanks a ton for everything in this post. had a quick question, taking clones from 3 ladies in flower, weeks 4,5,and 7 all on 8 week strains. any experience with this, should i cut the large nugget off the top or just leave it, also how would i go about feeding these and when, they are in rockwool, no roots yet i was thinking once they dry a bit, dilute the tea like 5:1 and dip them in this, is this ok or should i wait for roots? i also added about a teaspon of botanicare PBP and liquid karma to 2 gallons, before reading not to use these in the tea, it still smells like forrest water, but would this be bad for my flowering plants?
also ive read some other recipies and i put 1 cup of ancient forrest, i cup of wiggle worms, small scoop of sub culture m and b, ~10ml of floralicious plus, ~5 mils each of floralnectar both fruitnfusion and pineapplerush, few drops of blackstrap, 1 tsp of PBP and LK(last time for these) handful of coco for breeding grounds(no sock or screen for anything), and 6 airstones to a 35 watt air pump. this stuff smells like dank forrest but its really fuckin dark, like black, i'm using this in soil and was wondering if it would be better unstrained(like kombucha), or strained by the 400 micron mesh. also what dilution rate would you recommend, i put 3 cups to a gal (unfiltered)and it was about as dark as liquid karma.
Heisenberg
Well-Known Member
I appreciate the praise you guys give me, but remember the microbes are the real miracle here. I am simply someone who is good at reading, understanding and then summarizing the relevant information. Also, even if I do not directly comment on someones post, I still appreciate updates, feedback and especially pics.
As for LK or other ferts in the tea, it should be fine. I don't see how it would hurt anything or encourage slime. I suggested LK be used as directed simply because, for disease fighting purposes, there is no advantage to including it in the tea; it doesn't make the product last longer. For a soil grow I can see how it would be advantageous to include extra ferts to the tea.
With your flowering plants, I think the ones that are close to harvest should be re-vegged before cloning. The longer a plant is in bud the harder it is to clone from, although it is never really impossible. As I'm sure you know, clones from a flowering plant will likely take a very long time to root as they must revert back to veg first. I have never cloned from late bud plants so I can not suggest a good place to cut. Feeding them is easy though. Just use any sort of foliar spray, preferable the APS solution from Dutch Master combined with saturator. APS can also be used as a rockwool soak and will gently feed the stems. I would also dip the rockwool in the tea from day one, no need to wait for roots, although I would use a cleaner tea than what you currently have with the clones; you only need the microbes. No need to dilute it either, although if it makes you feel better a 50/50 dilution should still be quite effective.
Your tea is a bit thick with all those additives, but you are in soil so it's probably ok. You do not have to worry about the subtleties of slime growth. For dilution I recommend 1 cup per gallon with DWC, but again I have no experience in dirt. If it were me and I switched to soil, I would start experimenting by making a clean tea (microbes+food only) and then add a cup or so undiluted to the soil every 7 days or maybe even longer. You may be better off asking in organics where they better understand the dynamics of soil.
Couple quick tips:
I no longer use a sock. I take a paper towel, put the EWC in the middle, and then fold the sides accordion style, sort of like a coffee filter. Then I just use a rubber band to fasten the top together and toss it in. When I am done with the tea I can just throw it all away instead of digging out the sock. (of course filtering is unnecessary for soil grows)
When I measure out the molasses I use a plastic spoon and just toss the whole thing in. Not too environmentally conscious, but less mess to deal with.
As for LK or other ferts in the tea, it should be fine. I don't see how it would hurt anything or encourage slime. I suggested LK be used as directed simply because, for disease fighting purposes, there is no advantage to including it in the tea; it doesn't make the product last longer. For a soil grow I can see how it would be advantageous to include extra ferts to the tea.
With your flowering plants, I think the ones that are close to harvest should be re-vegged before cloning. The longer a plant is in bud the harder it is to clone from, although it is never really impossible. As I'm sure you know, clones from a flowering plant will likely take a very long time to root as they must revert back to veg first. I have never cloned from late bud plants so I can not suggest a good place to cut. Feeding them is easy though. Just use any sort of foliar spray, preferable the APS solution from Dutch Master combined with saturator. APS can also be used as a rockwool soak and will gently feed the stems. I would also dip the rockwool in the tea from day one, no need to wait for roots, although I would use a cleaner tea than what you currently have with the clones; you only need the microbes. No need to dilute it either, although if it makes you feel better a 50/50 dilution should still be quite effective.
Your tea is a bit thick with all those additives, but you are in soil so it's probably ok. You do not have to worry about the subtleties of slime growth. For dilution I recommend 1 cup per gallon with DWC, but again I have no experience in dirt. If it were me and I switched to soil, I would start experimenting by making a clean tea (microbes+food only) and then add a cup or so undiluted to the soil every 7 days or maybe even longer. You may be better off asking in organics where they better understand the dynamics of soil.
Couple quick tips:
I no longer use a sock. I take a paper towel, put the EWC in the middle, and then fold the sides accordion style, sort of like a coffee filter. Then I just use a rubber band to fasten the top together and toss it in. When I am done with the tea I can just throw it all away instead of digging out the sock. (of course filtering is unnecessary for soil grows)
When I measure out the molasses I use a plastic spoon and just toss the whole thing in. Not too environmentally conscious, but less mess to deal with.
Heisenberg
Well-Known Member
Since switching to the mycrogrow powder I have noticed my buckets, air stones, air line, ect all have a noticeably thicker biofilm than usual. A biofilm is a congregation of microlife, so I took this as a sign that the myco is better than my previous products. When preparing my last batch of tea I accidentally used about four times the amount of myco as usual, so I put in a bit more molasses as well. Tonight for the first time ever I discovered a very thick brown mucus covering my airstone when I removed it from the tea. This is alarming since it looks very similar to the slime. So it seems with the myco powder less is more. I am really hesitant to use this batch of tea now, but I guess I should follow my own advice that if it smells fine use it. I'll let you guys know the results.
EDIT: I have since found that these gunky airstones can be removed from the tea brew and placed into a res as a great source of bennies.
EDIT: I have since found that these gunky airstones can be removed from the tea brew and placed into a res as a great source of bennies.
thanks heis, good luck with that brown stuff. I tried my black tea water unfiltered full strength, well see how that goes. I had a good idea, next time i brew i'm gonna use the paper towel method for my humus, then once i'm done i'm gonna ammend my soil with the humus, i figure it must be teeming with life at that point, and if not, still decent dirt. heis so far youve been our guinea pig on these concoctions, u gave me the confidence with the tea to start experimenting also, every batch gonna try and experiment with and see if we cant figure some shit out. also i fed my tea to all my house plants, my bananna tree LOVED it. oh and ive heard too much air will "beat them to death" not sure how much is too much but i had 35watts in less than 2 gallons and its the best tea i've made.
Ralph Marvin
Member
Here is an update on the Purple Maxx "black substance" situation. I was a little cloudy on my feelings for the company after their first response, but I don't think they could have done much more than this, and I feel much better now:
"The product has been prone to grow mold from the time we first
developed it. It has never been reported that the mold has been an issue in
terms of harming plants. As mentioned we are working diligently to remedy
the problem. We would be more than happy to replace your bottle of Purple
Maxx in hopes of retaining you as a valued customer. Please provide us with
an address and the size of container you purchased and we will ship it out
to you today. If you would like to receive a Snow Storm Tee Shirt please
provide us with a size."
And, thanks again, Heisenberg, just because.
"The product has been prone to grow mold from the time we first
developed it. It has never been reported that the mold has been an issue in
terms of harming plants. As mentioned we are working diligently to remedy
the problem. We would be more than happy to replace your bottle of Purple
Maxx in hopes of retaining you as a valued customer. Please provide us with
an address and the size of container you purchased and we will ship it out
to you today. If you would like to receive a Snow Storm Tee Shirt please
provide us with a size."
And, thanks again, Heisenberg, just because.
usblues420
Member
Hey Heisenberg I am so glad I just found this thread. I have the brown slime algae starting to develop on my 2 week old plants in DWC. I am sorry if this question has already been asked, but the ancient forest EWC is that the alaskan humis stuff made by general organics? Also will the tea still do the job if the ZHO is missing. Im not quite sure if the local hydro shop has it in stock. THanks