DWC Root Slime Cure aka How to Breed Beneficial Microbes

WOW!

I just read the ENTIRE thread in one sitting, took me over 3 hours (I also did research on all the products mentioned)

My question is quite simple and I really do appreciate any response (even if its incorrect or misleading, its the thought that counts)

I have a 9 bucket RDWC system (5 gallon buckets) with 9 euforic OG clones, i put them in 8 inch net pots with a layer of hydroton at the bottom.
Roots are barely showing and they have been in the system for 10 days, my question is this:

What supplements in terms of beneficial bacteria will best support root growth for my plants?
I've invested in Fox Farm Bushmaster Microbe brew and have been using that at 10ml/gallon as well as
Superthrive at 2ml/gallon

In your opinion is there a significant difference between the bushmaster microbe brew and microgrow?
-I have already invested in the microbe brew, but if the microgrow will significantly help my roots more than the microbrew I have no problem in purchasing it as well.
-I have brought hygrozyme, but will save it for my coco grow since it serves no purpose in dwc.

The microbe brew is also organic and I cant exactly remember what heisenberg said about using organics in dwc. Thank you very much in advance.

dangledo said:

just curious- ive heard of outstanding yields in hydro- dwc especially. what are some yield benchmarks you all have personally grown? I impressed myself with several 7 oz plants in soilless, white russian. so i hope to 'blow it outa the water' no pun intended.

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Thanks for the pics. Would be interesting to see how those roots are looking now. Yield depends on so many things. With GHS cheese I find that if I throw a cutting into bud as soon as the very first sign of roots show on the bottom of the rockwool, the end result is 3.5-4oz. If I let it veg for 2 weeks I can pull 6-7, and a month in veg ends up giving me 8-10. Very loose numbers of course. This is with a homemade Co2 bucket, twice weekly sprayings of liquid light, and a 600wt light with CFL supplement. I also keep my plants bushy and do a sort of semi-scrog. Of course if I overcrowd the bud room my yield per plant is less. Overall yield is always governed by space.

Everyone should definitely pour some tea through the net pots once in a while to inoculate the root crown. It really seems to help. I keep my water just touching the net pots until roots reach a few inches into the water. I then lower the water about 2 inches and ensure bubbles are keeping the net pots moist. It isn't long before the air roots form and thicken and provide a perfect tube for uptaking large amounts of nutes.

crazy4life14 said:

Well my tea is still brewing, I used 1 scoop of the great white for 2 gallons, good to know I can use less next time as it will last me longer....been 24 hours now and it still doesn't have any foam on top. Is that how you know its ready, when it has foam?

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You know it's ready when you hit the 48hr mark. The tea should have an earthy smell and the air tube should have a slight biofilm. The brew may or may not have foam, but probably will.

College Grower said:

In your opinion is there a significant difference between the bushmaster microbe brew and microgrow?
-I have already invested in the microbe brew, but if the microgrow will significantly help my roots more than the microbrew I have no problem in purchasing it as well.
-I have brought hygrozyme, but will save it for my coco grow since it serves no purpose in dwc.

The microbe brew is also organic and I cant exactly remember what heisenberg said about using organics in dwc. Thank you very much in advance.

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I am unable to find a list of microbes included in microbe brew from fox farm. Most likely, there is no significant difference from mycrogrow, except for price. Mycogrow is powder(longer shelf life) and probably more diverse, but if what you are using is working then there no real reason to change. If you want to see significant root growth beyond what the microbes can do, get a bottle of roots excelurator from H&G. It's expensive but it works and can be used in the tea to make it last longer.

thank you very much good sir heisenberg, and yes I have already purchased the roots excelurator. Sublbc has a list of the microbes in microbe brew in his youtube video "best of the beneficials" He sold me on the microbe brew when he compared it to voo doo juice, aqua shield and the other products, you should definietely check it out he goes over the beneficials in it as well.

Feel free to check out me and my bro's grow
https://www.rollitup.org/dwc-bubbleponics/407649-1st-grow-9x-euforia-dp.html

theres a feeding regimen on there, with the microbes, I brought the liquid light and saturartor because you sold me on that lol, if you arent receiving any compensation from dutch master or fungi.com you should call them because as big as this thread is there is no doubt in my mind that a significant amount of purchases can be traced back to this thread. Seriously, I only brought the LL and Saturator because of you, so yeah. Check out my grow and help a nigga out! (even though I'm asian)!

Thanks and Peace!

So yea my tea got the white foam right at 48 hours and it had a lot of the brown biofilm around the edges of the bucket and on the air tube....So I used it in one of the rez's (6 cups in 6 gallons) that was full of the slime and the next day the slime on the roots was all foamy and thin so I guess it's doing the trick...... But in my other rez I changes out the water and cleaned everything first and then added the tea at a lower strength (2 cups in 6 gallons) and the next day there was that brown biofilm all over my roots!!!!! No clear snotty slime at all just brown junk all over the roots....is that normal??? I didn't think it was normal so I added some H202 and all the biofilm was gone within about an hour and now my roots are bright white. So was it normal????

crazy4life14 said:

So yea my tea got the white foam right at 48 hours and it had a lot of the brown biofilm around the edges of the bucket and on the air tube....So I used it in one of the rez's (6 cups in 6 gallons) that was full of the slime and the next day the slime on the roots was all foamy and thin so I guess it's doing the trick...... But in my other rez I changes out the water and cleaned everything first and then added the tea at a lower strength (2 cups in 6 gallons) and the next day there was that brown biofilm all over my roots!!!!! No clear snotty slime at all just brown junk all over the roots....is that normal??? I didn't think it was normal so I added some H202 and all the biofilm was gone within about an hour and now my roots are bright white. So was it normal????

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The black substance is something we see from time to time when using the tea, and can be quite alarming when you first encounter it. We are not sure exactly what it is, but it seems to be harmless. Speculation is that its humic acid residue or perhaps even the slime being attacked and dying. I have seen this show up with no slime when I used roots excelurator directly in the res. As long as you can see new roots coming through, even tiny ones, things should be ok. Eventually the brown spot will fade and become smaller as the root ball grows.

Heisenberg said:

The black substance is something we see from time to time when using the tea, and can be quite alarming when you first encounter it. We are not sure exactly what it is, but it seems to be harmless. Speculation is that its humic acid residue or perhaps even the slime being attacked and dying. I have seen this show up with no slime when I used roots excelurator directly in the res. As long as you can see new roots coming through, even tiny ones, things should be ok. Eventually the brown spot will fade and become smaller as the root ball grows.

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Cool good to know it's harmless. Ya there was still new root growth coming in below the black stuff... I guess I'll just add in some more of the tea in a couple days when the H202 is no longer active.

But I wouldn't agree with the speculation that its the slime being attacked tho as there was no slime in that rez yet and I saw what it looks like when the slime is being attacked in the other rez (looked like the slime was foaming and becoming runny till it eventually disappeared all together). So my guess is that it was the humic acid residue....whatever that is lol....all I know is it looked just like the biofilm that was in the bucket brewing the tea.

Thanks for all your help heisenberg!!!

I encountered the same black residue, not slimy at all. Only on one strand of roots. everything else looks just fine, including the plant. Went back through the thread again for any kind of idea, then I read your new posts. Crazy.I did a resi change with new tea yesterday. Sprayed the roots with a bit of tea, sort of breaking up the residue. Ill see what happens now.

Dont know how that posted..

Anyway, here is an update on the roots. Is it normal for the individual root strands to 'dread lock'? I kind of untangled them, but to no avail. what once looked like 100's looks like several fatties...normal? There is lots of bubbles, almost turbulant. two lines of air, with two bendable airtubes. Too much?
also a few pics of the soilless grow, inoculated with some tea. I really think it had a big effect. Dont remember flowers this big at 18 days.
I know you like the hash, so here are a few pics of 'budder' I just made.
My pics are found in my albums if interested. never did journals or threads...

dangledo said:

Dont know how that posted..

Anyway, here is an update on the roots. Is it normal for the individual root strands to 'dread lock'? I kind of untangled them, but to no avail. what once looked like 100's looks like several fatties...normal? There is lots of bubbles, almost turbulant. two lines of air, with two bendable airtubes. Too much?
also a few pics of the soilless grow, inoculated with some tea. I really think it had a big effect. Dont remember flowers this big at 18 days.
I know you like the hash, so here are a few pics of 'budder' I just made.
My pics are found in my albums if interested. never did journals or threads...

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Yeah, mine get tangled all the time. No worries on that. Good looking plants. The roots on my plant have a slight brown tint to them because I use GH 3 part series and the micro stains them.

Well it was time for a rez change in the rez that got all the slime eaten up by the Tea. And just like the other rez this one got the brown residue on the roots after a day and a half. What is it???? Is it possible its just my floranova??? I did just up the nutes from 2.5ml to 4.5ml a gallon. Anyone seen this that uses floranova? Or is it something else...hopefully these pics will help.

Also it wipes off of the roots fairly easily but leaves them stained brown. And H202 clears it up in about an hour if this info helps someone determine what it is.

crazy4life14 said:

Well it was time for a rez change in the rez that got all the slime eaten up by the Tea. And just like the other rez this one got the brown residue on the roots after a day and a half. What is it???? Is it possible its just my floranova??? I did just up the nutes from 2.5ml to 4.5ml a gallon. Anyone seen this that uses floranova? Or is it something else...hopefully these pics will help.

Also it wipes off of the roots fairly easily but leaves them stained brown. And H202 clears it up in about an hour if this info helps someone determine what it is.

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A quick search reveals page after page of statements such as:

"Flora Nova is thick and gunky, turns water brown and stains roots"
"FloraNova always stains my roots dingy brown so they look like they have root rot"
" I get a brownish/black buildup on my roots everytime I use these nutes"

I see new shoots growing in those pics. New shoots never develop when slime is present. You should be okay if you stick with the microbes. My only advice would be to switch to nutes better suited for DWC.

Hello heise, i have one soil grow under my belt. I know you are not using soil but I read your entire thread I am just blown away by the results. I recently purchased the Quantum Growth product someone was hyping up...that was before I read your thread and now I am gonna ship it right back to them and give your tea a try. I am using a "super soil" mix and my plants will be watered through sub irrigating pots that i constructed. For the tea I've got organic sucanat in my supplies, add a small scoop of my fungi perfecti mycogrow , and let it bubble for 48 hours. Any suggestions on the way to use this tea? Quantum Growth suggest 1 table spoon per gallon. Will the tea work in a simular fashion for soil grows as in DWC grows? Also I use no fertilizers in my soil, as it built into the mixture (Subcool's recipe), will this burn my plants? Sorry for the newbie post, but I am new and I am trying to further my learning and application. Thank you

Thirdhyeopen: I use quantum with a little help from a rep. comes a little cheaper that way(free). I'd give it a try if you already have it. The results are excellent, I do add a little nutes for them to fed on. With the Quantum I have cut that in half from what i used before adding Quantum to the mix. I also use it a little more than the suggested rate. Changing the res. every two weeks using that on that veggie garden outside. I like the product because there no mixing just add to res. But Heise has the best blend for doing it yourself and save some money at the same time. Quantum does offer the photosyntheic bacteria at a high rate and I don't know if the blend has that I'll have to look back. Indoorman happy growing (disclamier, I do receive free Quantum growth product from a rep. thats why i post about it.)

ThirdHyeOpen said:

Hello heise, i have one soil grow under my belt. I know you are not using soil but I read your entire thread I am just blown away by the results. I recently purchased the Quantum Growth product someone was hyping up...that was before I read your thread and now I am gonna ship it right back to them and give your tea a try. I am using a "super soil" mix and my plants will be watered through sub irrigating pots that i constructed. For the tea I've got organic sucanat in my supplies, add a small scoop of my fungi perfecti mycogrow , and let it bubble for 48 hours. Any suggestions on the way to use this tea? Quantum Growth suggest 1 table spoon per gallon. Will the tea work in a simular fashion for soil grows as in DWC grows? Also I use no fertilizers in my soil, as it built into the mixture (Subcool's recipe), will this burn my plants? Sorry for the newbie post, but I am new and I am trying to further my learning and application. Thank you

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The tea will not burn your plants, and will provide all the microbes necessary for releasing your organic ferts. However I can not suggest an application rate as I have zero experience in soil, and haven't even really researched dirt farming much. I did hear an interview with Kyle Kushman about veganics recently. He stated that he makes his own tea and add's some microbes to every feeding, but he didn't give details. (He also foliar sprays microbes once a week) So perhaps you would be better off asking in the organics forum or even the veganics thread.

Thanks bro

heisenburg greet info!!! a few questions...i just recieved my mycogrow soluble and am getting ready to brew my first batch. i know u put the EWC in a sock and let soak, but do u inoculate the water itself with the myco or do u add the myco to the EWC that is in the sock??

ALso, I am starting a new project with multiple UC systems...currently am running just one and have had good success with it but my last run i had some issues with rot and diseased roots. I have switched over to run canna's complete line....would u recommend running their complete line, ie base a&b, cannazyme, rhizo, boost and pk 13-14 if im brewing ur tea recipe and adding it to the res's? if not the complete line what would u recommend running with the tea?? any info/help would be greatly appreciated!!!!

diablo214 said:

heisenburg greet info!!! a few questions...i just recieved my mycogrow soluble and am getting ready to brew my first batch. i know u put the EWC in a sock and let soak, but do u inoculate the water itself with the myco or do u add the myco to the EWC that is in the sock??

ALso, I am starting a new project with multiple UC systems...currently am running just one and have had good success with it but my last run i had some issues with rot and diseased roots. I have switched over to run canna's complete line....would u recommend running their complete line, ie base a&b, cannazyme, rhizo, boost and pk 13-14 if im brewing ur tea recipe and adding it to the res's? if not the complete line what would u recommend running with the tea?? any info/help would be greatly appreciated!!!!

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im now thinking of running canna's base, RE, cannazyme, boost and pk13/14 and ur revised tea recipe with myco from fungi.com. Thoughts???

diablo214 said:

im now thinking of running canna's base, RE, cannazyme, boost and pk13/14 and ur revised tea recipe with myco from fungi.com. Thoughts???

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Add the mycogrow directly to the water, only the ewc/humus goes into the sock.

I do not see any conflicts running the tea with the line you described. Of course you know I feel the enzymes are unnecessary when using bennies, but the rest should work together beautifully with the tea.

Heisenberg said:

Add the mycogrow directly to the water, only the ewc/humus goes into the sock.

I do not see any conflicts running the tea with the line you described. Of course you know I feel the enzymes are unnecessary when using bennies, but the rest should work together beautifully with the tea.

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yes i know u feel it is unnecessary.....would u recommend any other product to run alongside with the RE, canna base a&b, booast and pk13/14?? i want to make sure i give my babies everything they need without wasting money on pointless products? placing my order tonight...thanks in advance

Thanks to soilguy.com for this great info

In order for any tea to propagate microbes exponentially, the MINIMUM content of dissolved oxygen in the water MUST be greater than 6 ppm. Which is also 6 milligrams per liter. Most small-batch aerated teas do not reach this level of dissolved oxygen, and so are quite limited in producing a strong tea with good diversity.

Assuredly, aerobic teas produce higher numbers (density) of beneficial microbes than any other tea-making method. "Beneficials" are those microbes that have been identified as supportive of healthy plants. The majority of beneficial microbes need oxygen to propagate. The majority of NON-beneficial microbes do NOT need aerobic conditions to propagate - and in fact, most anaerobes only breed in less than 3 ppm dissolved oxygen. Faculative microbes can propagate in both aerobic and anaerobic conditions.

Yes, it takes a high level of oxygen. More oxygen than it takes for fish to survive in an aquarium tank powered by a dinky airstone aerator dropped into a 5-gallon bucket. If the water does not contain MORE than 6 ppm (6 mg/l) of DISSOLVED oxygen, exponential reproduction of microbes will not happen, and you'll mostly breed anaerobic microbes, many of which can be pathogenic ('bad guys').

Even if you started with tea-quality compost, if you just fill a sock or bag with the compost and drop it into a tank to steep - the microbes are going to stay in the compost. In case you didn't know, microbes make a sticky substance (exudate) so they stick to what they grow on.

Unless the microbes get violently SHAKEN into the open water, outside the containment, exponential reproduction is simply not going to occur - even with the right kinds and amounts of foods - unless you brew for several days.

The word 'violent' pertains to a microbe perspective. The other word used is 'agitated'. As in forced away from where they were stuck. Forcing air and water THROUGH the bag that holds the compost is one of the keys to successful tea brewing - mainly because you would not be willing to sit at tank-edge and constantly squeeze a bag of compost for many hours.

How long does it take to brew a good batch of tea? Considering that all other factors are optimized, the GENERALLY-ACCEPTED minimum time for a high-bacteria brew is 24 hours. This brew is usually called a "concentrate".

Double the brew-time to 48 hours (which means adding more microbe foods of certain types, in certain amounts, at certain times) provides greater opportunity for protozoa and fungi to reproduce. This brew is called a "super-concentrate".

Based on the current state of research, it is IMPOSSIBLE to apply too much compost tea to a plant - either foliar or root drench or both.

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So in summary:

Tea should never be allowed to sit around unless it is aerated, even for a few minutes. If it is not being aerated, it must go into the fridge.

Never fill any sealed container more than half full of tea, the other half is for oxygen.

Pure water with near 0 PPM should be used to ensure plenty of room for the 6ppm of oxygen needed, as well as all the other additives.

To start with the fewest harmful microbes the water could be treated with food grade H202 24hrs prior to brewing. This will both sterilize and oxygenate the water.

Without laboratory equipment and conditions it is pointless to brew tea for more than 48 hours because of the meticulous oxygen and food requirements needed for exponential growth.

A simple EWC tea will never burn your plants.