DWC Root Slime Cure aka How to Breed Beneficial Microbes

hellraizer30

Rebel From The North
Damnit I seen one of hellrazors posts before the backup saying he doesn't even strain his tea, so I went ahead and not used a sock nor strained my tea and now I have slime.


oops. :bigjoint:
You didnt get slime from not straining your tea! I have been not straining for almost a year now and many other friends of mine.
Sometimes tea batches can go bad! Even while your brewing.
 

IN33DW33D

Active Member
You didnt get slime from not straining your tea! I have been not straining for almost a year now and many other friends of mine.
Sometimes tea batches can go bad! Even while your brewing.
Thanks for the reply, lol. It's all good because thank god the tea works so good I don't have to give a shit. :p
 

lluciano7

Active Member
has anyone tried bush dr kangaroots? it has bacullis or whatever myko and says its made from worm castings.. can this be used instead of the tea? a guy at the nursery says all he uses is tap water and kangaroots in his cloner and has never had slime.. i got worm castings too in case i have to brew it into a tea but i was wondering since its made from ewc would that be necessary? it says to add a half teaspon per gallon into your res
 

lluciano7

Active Member
this is the label from the foxfarm bushdoctor kangaroots. im trying it out by itself in my dwc with slime problem why i wait for my actual tea to brew.



kangaroots.jpg
 

clobbersaurus

Well-Known Member
this is the label from the foxfarm bushdoctor kangaroots. im trying it out by itself in my dwc with slime problem why i wait for my actual tea to brew.
Odd you posted this cuz I was right about to post pics of it and MicrobeBrew to ask Heisenberg a question!

Heisenberg, these products seem very similar in ingredients to the MycoGrow; to maximize cost efficiency, would they work as substitutes for MycoGrow with similar efficacy? At 5ml/gal, you could brew over 200 gallons for 21.25 +s/h. I've been using them with MycoGrow, reassured by the redundancy :weed:

 

hornedfrog2000

Well-Known Member
Bacteria is more important to the plant than the fungi. imo....

Mycogrow can go a long ways in our grows. I think an ounce was like $9 shipped.

MycoGrow™ Soluble
MycoGrow™ Soluble is similar to Plant Success™ Tabs but is more concentrated, containing more spores and more species, plus other beneficial organisms. Consisting of powdered spore mass rather than tablets, MycoGrow™ Soluble is great for adding to rooting media or commercial potting soils. Sold in one pound and one ounce increments. An ounce is sufficient to treat 125–250 plants covering approximately 250 square feet.
 

hornedfrog2000

Well-Known Member
I actually think the only thing people really probably need is the ancient forest, and some molasses, kelp meal, fish emulsion etc. You are trying to get the most diverse tea you can, and that means feeding each one what they want (high nitrogen biological nutrients). The fungi would actually feed on something like corn meal, or oat bran or something like that to get it going. There should be Fungi in the Ancient forest, but who knows what, and how much. From my limited research it looked like annuals like cannabis get more value from the Bacteria than the fungi, but again I don't know how much. Also, this is a pretty untapped science from what I can tell so any one way might not be the best. Probably have to play with it and see what works best for you.
 

mr.bond

Well-Known Member
It has been said many times on this thread but apparently it needs to be said again.

The key to fighting slime is biological diversity.
Diversity can 'choke out' the likely singular anaerobic bacteria that has turned your plant into a slime haven. If you can fight it off with 1,000... 10,000... 50,000+ diverse forms of life, you have a much better chance of ridding your rez from the grip of slime. Pure earthworm castings are one of the only available sources of such significant biological diversity. A very important biological for fighting slime is Trichoderma. A tea that is brewed to kill slime should include this, as well as sources of beneficial fungi and bacteria. Types of endo & ectomycorrhizae fungi should be included as well to help fortify plant roots, in addition to providing the many benefits that they do. We happen to like Ancient Forest around here, seen to many of us as the most diverse product on the market.

If you are not fighting slime, you do not need as much diversity.
Having basic colonies of living, aerobic microbes in your system will often prevent anaerobic conditions from occuring, as the good microbes gobble up the bad ones before they can totally infest. In addition to disease prevention, a living aerobic system also provides other benefits to your grow, including increased water uptake, increased nutrient uptake, better root and plant health, and increased root branching. Of course if your environment isn't good then nothing will prevent anaerobic conditions from occurring. Using products that contain beneficial bacteria and mycorrhizae fungi can help your system stay clean before an outbreak occurs, or after after an outbreak and inoculation take place.

Common INEXPENSIVE products recommended in this thread include:
Mycogrow Soluble (beneficial fungi [endo & ectomycorrhizae], beneficial bacteria, and trichoderma; ~$10);
Botanicare Aquashield (beneficial bacteria; ~$12);
Botanicare ZHO (beneficial fungi [endo & ectomycorrhizae] and trichoderma; ~$20);General Organics Ancient Forest (most diverse formula of beneficial fungi [endo & ectomycorrhizae], beneficial bacteria, and trichoderma; ~$14);

Other common products recommended but EXPENSIVE include:
General Hydroponics Sub-M (beneficial fungi [endo & ectomycorrhizae] and beneficial bacteria; ~$45);
General Hydroponics Sub-B (beneficial bacteria; ~$45);
Plant Success Great White (beneficial fungi [endo & ectomycorrhizae], beneficial bacteria, and trichoderma; ~$90);

There is one other product some people have success with, but it is controversial. It is largely an anaerobic bacteria in it's composition, and therefore, could very worsen a slime infection. Probably great for growth but a poor choice for slime control:
House & Garden Roots Excelurator (beneficial anaerobic bacteria; ~$60).

"a guy at the nursery says all he uses is tap water and kangaroots in his cloner and has never had slime" - because he has never had slime, the basic forms of life provided by kangaroots are enough, in combination with his environment, to keep the anaerobic slime bacterias from thriving. please note, however, that both the kangaroots and microbebrew products posted include types of beneficial mycorrhizae fungi, beneficial bacterias, and even some trichoderma, but in most cases, they lack the diversity (only a few dozen) and amount of microbes requried for slime fighting. you could increase the amount of microbes by brewing these products into a tea with some molasses, but this would not add to the diversity. that could only be achieved by starting with a more diverse product, like Ancient Forest (up to 80,000 types of diverse microbes), or another type of earthworm castings. as with any inoculation of biological products, they must be refreshed periodically as they lose diversity and life over time. having a rez full of dead microbes will quickly allow anaerobic microbes to eat them up, and create slime in the process.

Hope this helps,
mr.bond
 

legallyflying

Well-Known Member
I am still battling brown roots. Even with running HIGH amounts of tea. I really don't know WTF is going on. At first I thought that some of the roots were brown simply because there were lots of particles of EWC sticking to them. Well, 3 of the plants have bright white shinny roots. The others... not so much. The plants are growing gang busters for sure (in a UC system) but there are starting to show deficiencies, and I believe that it is a function of stressed roots.

water temps are around 65. PPM around 500. Adding 3 gallons of tea once a week. or about every 5 days. Running around 55-60 gallons in the system.

My tea is ancient forest, myco soluable powder, molassis, and a squirt or two of sea green kelp extract. I am not getting tons of foam? The tea temps is around 70 or so..likely a little higher but not crazy. Plenty of air pumping into the system. I am at my witts end. In an attempt to nuke ALL the bacteria I just drained everything at added 12ml zone/ 5 gallon and 10 ml of h2o2/ gallon. Running really high water leveels...covring the first inch of the net pots.

Sighhh.
 

hornedfrog2000

Well-Known Member
I am still battling brown roots. Even with running HIGH amounts of tea. I really don't know WTF is going on. At first I thought that some of the roots were brown simply because there were lots of particles of EWC sticking to them. Well, 3 of the plants have bright white shinny roots. The others... not so much. The plants are growing gang busters for sure (in a UC system) but there are starting to show deficiencies, and I believe that it is a function of stressed roots.

water temps are around 65. PPM around 500. Adding 3 gallons of tea once a week. or about every 5 days. Running around 55-60 gallons in the system.

My tea is ancient forest, myco soluable powder, molassis, and a squirt or two of sea green kelp extract. I am not getting tons of foam? The tea temps is around 70 or so..likely a little higher but not crazy. Plenty of air pumping into the system. I am at my witts end. In an attempt to nuke ALL the bacteria I just drained everything at added 12ml zone/ 5 gallon and 10 ml of h2o2/ gallon. Running really high water leveels...covring the first inch of the net pots.

Sighhh.
Maybe you are using too much bennies? I have heard of a couple different things possibly happening. One is that there is so much bennies in the water that they use up too much of the dissolved oxygen and there isn't enough for the plant. Another way is that the plant gives off sugar to the fungi/bacteria, and I've heard of the plants giving more glucose to the bennies than the symbiosis is warranting. IE the bennies/fungi are getting more than they are giving. Are you in flowering? From what I understand Fungi has very little use in the flowering phase.
 

hellraizer30

Rebel From The North
Hey legal i run a more agressive tea than you and my roots are a bit stained but i look at how soft they are, if they
Feel crisp and strong it dont matter the color! But if your intserest in what im using hit me up
 

The Dawg

Well-Known Member
Hellraiser Can I Substaute White Widow For Zho???Im Having A Hellva Time Getting My Zho In Time For My Next Batch Of Tea.If Not Whats A Suitable One???

Whats Up Legallyflying.Post Some Pic Of Your Roots.
 

Heisenberg

Well-Known Member
I am still battling brown roots. Even with running HIGH amounts of tea. I really don't know WTF is going on. At first I thought that some of the roots were brown simply because there were lots of particles of EWC sticking to them. Well, 3 of the plants have bright white shinny roots. The others... not so much. The plants are growing gang busters for sure (in a UC system) but there are starting to show deficiencies, and I believe that it is a function of stressed roots.

water temps are around 65. PPM around 500. Adding 3 gallons of tea once a week. or about every 5 days. Running around 55-60 gallons in the system.

My tea is ancient forest, myco soluable powder, molassis, and a squirt or two of sea green kelp extract. I am not getting tons of foam? The tea temps is around 70 or so..likely a little higher but not crazy. Plenty of air pumping into the system. I am at my witts end. In an attempt to nuke ALL the bacteria I just drained everything at added 12ml zone/ 5 gallon and 10 ml of h2o2/ gallon. Running really high water leveels...covring the first inch of the net pots.

Sighhh.
Weren't you running tea successfully for a while?

We don't expect to see a lot of foam unless you use EWC, especially if you use a sock or filter. Also, I would expect the bennies to have a minimal effect in 65 water, yet we know slime doesn't mind even colder. If you want to sterilize, we know that Zone and h202 have little effect on slime, need to use bleach or physan. Sounds like you have a previous infection that is sticking around, or else you are adding something organic.
 

Heisenberg

Well-Known Member
Hellraiser Can I Substaute White Widow For Zho???Im Having A Hellva Time Getting My Zho In Time For My Next Batch Of Tea.If Not Whats A Suitable One???

Whats Up Legallyflying.Post Some Pic Of Your Roots.
White widow does not contain trichoderma, which is an aggressive parasitic fungi. I would use sub-m. mycogrow soluble, great white, or the like. If white widow is all you can get, it is better than nothing.
 

hellraizer30

Rebel From The North
Hellraiser Can I Substaute White Widow For Zho???Im Having A Hellva Time Getting My Zho In Time For My Next Batch Of Tea.If Not Whats A Suitable One???

Whats Up Legallyflying.Post Some Pic Of Your Roots.
You can dawg, i never used zho till about to month ago and my tea work fine without it! Only reason i added zho
Was ti add a bit a diversity to the tea


Didnt see you post heis :)
 

legallyflying

Well-Known Member
Yeah, it was successfull... until it wasn't. Dark roots started in the areas above the waterline, then progressed down. Maybe I should run the water a little warmer..like 68 or so.

Right now I'm in the process of small scale chemcial warefare. Just added two tespoons of physian to my water. So that is h202, zone and physian. Maybe I can add some radioactive waste in there? LOL.

I also really dropped water temps to 63. Going to give them a couple days and see how they do.
 

Heisenberg

Well-Known Member
I actually think the only thing people really probably need is the ancient forest, and some molasses, kelp meal, fish emulsion etc. You are trying to get the most diverse tea you can, and that means feeding each one what they want (high nitrogen biological nutrients). The fungi would actually feed on something like corn meal, or oat bran or something like that to get it going. There should be Fungi in the Ancient forest, but who knows what, and how much. From my limited research it looked like annuals like cannabis get more value from the Bacteria than the fungi, but again I don't know how much. Also, this is a pretty untapped science from what I can tell so any one way might not be the best. Probably have to play with it and see what works best for you.
The benefits cannabis may get from fungi or bacteria is negligible in a DWC. We only care about the roots being free of disease. In this sense, they all have the same value. The mycos do not germ in the tea anyway, and trichoderma will grow on just about anything, so there is no real need for anything besides molasses. Remember we are not making tea, even microbe teas, for their traditional soil purposes.
 

Heisenberg

Well-Known Member
Odd you posted this cuz I was right about to post pics of it and MicrobeBrew to ask Heisenberg a question!

Heisenberg, these products seem very similar in ingredients to the MycoGrow; to maximize cost efficiency, would they work as substitutes for MycoGrow with similar efficacy? At 5ml/gal, you could brew over 200 gallons for 21.25 +s/h. I've been using them with MycoGrow, reassured by the redundancy :weed:

I have heard of a few people using kangaroots in the tea with success along with ancient forest. It seems to be a pretty good product, although if it costs anything more than $6/oz mycogrow sol is a more cost effective choice. If you use it on it's own (without brewing) it may or may not work. If it has any 'food' in it to get the microbes going, it could end up feeding the slime instead.
 
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